Savants and Weaknesses (Mistborn series Spoilers)

[EmeraldMind]

So I have been considering Savantism on Scadrial. I ran into a discussion talking about the best savant and it was really interesting. Between that and a WoB that for the life of me I can't find, I wanted to focus on the potential weakness of each Savant. Their drawback for their increased abilities. Sanderson mentioned by all rights Wax really should be classified as a Savant, but he hasn't because he hasn't figured out what the trade off for being a Steel Savant is. Thought I would take to the forums to see who has theories about Savant weaknesses.

I can't personally think of what kind of drawback a Steel Savant has, but I want to review our known Savants and their drawbacks.

• Tin users get to the point of being unsensing unless they are burning tin
• Pewter users can literally be dying but not know it. I imagine massive broken bones and internal bleeding would be shrugged off.

Now, those are the only two we know from the books explicitly telling us. I'm going to talk about Brass, which is one we seems to have gotten some hints at. Brass users seem to have an impulsive need to Soothe. Breeze seems to be considered a pseudo-savant, and it is mentioned that Breeze is always Soothing. It is often written off as part of his personality. However, during one of his PoV scenes he sits and has a drink with Clubs. Clubs inquires why he bothers to sit and drink with him. Breeze shrugs it off, and Clubs doesn't care enough to pursue it. But I think that Breeze is so compulsed to always be Soothing anyone nearby, that being around Clubs, who he can't Soothe, and knows he can't affect, is shown to be a relief to him. I think the side affect of Soothing Savantism is perpetual soothing. I'm not sure if Zinc would have a similar trade off, but it seems likely.

But, I would love to hear everyone's thoughts on what the weaknesses of the other Savants might be. I'm going to throw up a list that I'll edit as we get solid theories and cannon as new books come out.

Physical

• Iron Theory: Metal blindness. Theory 2: Sense of vulnerability in open space. Theory 3: Ironsight sight only.
• Steel Theory: Metal blindness. Theory 2: Sense of claustrophobia. Theory 3: Steelsight sight only.
• Pewter Cannon
• Tin Cannon

Mental

• Zinc Theory: impulsive rioting
• Brass Theory: impulsive soothing
• Bronze Theory: Lack of pulsing causes agitation.
• Copper Theory: Lack of empathy

Temporal

• Gold Theory: altering spiritual web, possibly allowing other magics to control savant more easily. Theory 2: Multiple personality disorder.
• Electrum Theory: fear of the uknown.
• Cadmium Theory: Age distortion. Theory 2: Bored/agitated at the slow pace of things.
• Bendalloy Theory: Age distortion. Theory 2: Fear of missing out on things.

Enhancement

• Aluminum Theory: compulsively burning away investiture. 
• Duraluminum Theory: No metal selecting. All metals burn.
• Nicrosil Theory: Burn other's metal on contact impulsively. Theory 2: Compulsive touching.
• Chromium Theory: Burn other's metal on contact impulsively. Theory 2: Compulsive touching.

Edit: fixed my typos

Edited May 17, 2018 by EmeraldMind

[RShara]

Steel and Iron (you have a typo there, btw) are hard because they're very external effects. Maybe metal starts to glow and blind them, like it does the Shards?

[Weltall]

1 hour ago, EmeraldMind said:

But, I would love to hear everyone's thoughts on what the weaknesses of the other Savants might be. I'm going to throw up a list that I'll edit as we get solid theories and cannon as new books come out

We have the epigraph in HoA that tells us how most people die before becoming pewter savants due to ignoring pain and pushing their bodies past the breaking point. Sazed comments that the benefits aren't worth the cost in his opinion, so the downside post-savantism is probably an extension of that. Similarly, it's mentioned that most Seekers become savants without realizing it, which suggests that if there is a consequence it's not particularly noticeable, at least not as it's currently represented. Just throwing an idea out there, since we know that piercing Copperclouds is something a bronze savant can do, maybe their consequence is that it's easier for them to be detected by other Seekers, or that their own allomancy can't be hidden by a Copperclould?

Anyhow, going down the other metals:

- Iron/Steel: See below

- Zinc/Brass: Having these powers be 'always on' when you have the metal inside you could be an option, though it's kind of tricky since we know a Soother/Rioter can control the emotions they're affecting. Maybe a low-level effect on all emotions that you'd never notice because it's hitting everything at once could work, but you'd think the allomancer would notice they're burning through their metal without meaning to.

- Copper: No clue, honestly.

- Duralumin/Aluminum: Given how hard it is to become an aluminum savant, I don't think it really needs a consequence; the hit to your pocketbook from all that burned aluminum should be enough. With duralumin, probably the same thing since you'd have to burn so much of it to hit savanthood, maybe having difficulty controlling its effects, so that it tries to burn everything you have inside you when you start to burn duralumin, instead of just the metal you're actively burning at the time?

- Cadmium/Nicrosil: For these, I'm partial to the idea that they would be 'always on' in the sense that for a savant, as long as you have the metal inside you, it will try to activate whenever you touch another allomancer whether you're burning the metal or not. Think of it as the Midas Touch, Allomancy Edition. That would be a reasonable extension of how the power already works, plus a consequence that they'd have to work around by either avoiding contact or by only ingesting the metal at the moment they need it.

- Cadmium/Bendalloy: Brandon's mentioned a potential savantism benefit to the former in the context of using lots of cadmium to time capsule yourself, so my first instinct that it could mess with your Spiritual sense of age might not work. If using lots of these metals could trick your soul into thinking it's older/younger than it 'should' be, that might get in the way of Brandon's hypothetical application. Hmmmm,

- Electrum: Not sure, I'll have to think about this one some more.

- Gold: I'm not sure exactly how this one would work and I doubt many people would ever hit the point of becoming a gold savant (even Miles isn't comfortable with A-Gold and he's found a way to make it work for him and burns it with some regularity) but since it can show you people you might have become, I imagine it would do some wonky if low-grade things to your Identity, with potential consequences for other magic systems having an easier time affecting you, or potentially causing hiccups if you also have feruchemical powers.

20 minutes ago, RShara said:

Steel and Iron (you have a typo there, btw) are hard because they're very external effects. Maybe metal starts to glow and blind them, like it does the Shards?

Brandon has mentioned that he wants there to me significant consequences for an allomantic savant, which is why he's not entirely happy with how Wax is working. Long WoB here for reference. Something like 'metal blindness' could be an interesting extrapolation of what they already have, but it might be problematic since we've got Inquisitors who spend so much time burning the metals that they become savants more or less by default, and they need their allomancy to 'see'. Might be going too far down the consequence side. Maybe something along the lines of pushing/pulling all metals in range and having trouble isolating it to just the metal they want to affect?

[Zath]

32 minutes ago, EmeraldMind said:

So I have been considering Savantism on Roshar.

Pretty sure you meant Scadrial there, yes?  
 

Do you have the Mistborn Adventure Game?  (It's where the short story The Eleventh Metal was originally published.)  It actually has some stuff about how Savants are affected by each metal.  Disclaimer, though: even though Brandon Sanderson "approved" the game, Crafty Games adjusted the mechanics for some of the metals (really all of them, to some extent) for game balance reasons, so anything you read in there should NOT be considered canon.  It does have some food for thought, though.  And it's a fun game, to boot.  Anyways...

These kind of focus on the mental consequences of becoming a Savant, and the possible withdrawal symptoms of not burning.

Steel Savants might feel claustrophobic when not burning, since they Steelpush so often that not being able to makes it seem as if everything is closing in on them.  Similarly, Iron Savants might feel exposed and vulnerable.

I would say that Breeze is a full, bona fide Brass Savant.  He burns it practically ALL THE TIME, and has withdrawal symptoms when he's not burning (can't really remember where in the books that he's not burning Brass except the end of WoA, when he was dealing with... other stuff, so don't quote me on that).

I agree that Zinc Savants would be affected similarly to Brass Savants.

Copper... would Copper Savants even have a downside?  Its effect is barely noticeable to the burner (IIRC).  I'd say that Copper Savants would be the least affected by their Savant status, whatever that effect might be.  Perhaps apathy? Since Copper blocks Emotional Allomancy, perhaps Copper Savants start to block empathy.

I'd imagine that a Bronze Savant, when s/he stops burning, would experience a type of claustrophobia.  Suddenly being cut off from the pulses they sense every waking minute?  They'd feel as if something was smothering their senses and go into a panic attack until they could start burning Bronze again.  <shudders>  I would not enjoy that...

It's possible that Miles in AoL could be a Gold Savant... No, scratch that. He's much more likely to be a Feruchemical Gold Savant -- if that's even a thing -- than an Allomantic Gold Savant.  (Oooh, that's an interesting question: can Compounders become Allomantic Savants for their Feruchemical power?) 
Gold Savants might develop multiple personality disorder -- unable to tell which version of themselves is real, and which are just gold-shadows...

I think Electrum Savants would suffer from extreme paranoia and anxiety when not burning their metal.  Imagine if you always knew what would happen to you in your immediate future, and then that ability vanished.  Boom: instantly paralyzed with uncertainty and fear.  Your parkour days are over.  

Bendalloy Savants might feel (when not burning) as if the world is moving insanely fast, too fast to keep up with.  Maybe a severe "fear of missing out".

Cadmium Savants could feel chronically bored with the slow pace of everything, or maybe develop Cadmium-ADHD...?  Meh, not sure about that one.

The Enhancement Metals burn so fast that you'd need a ridiculously large amount of metal to become a Savant. 
Here's an idea for Aluminum Savants: what if they become the Scadrian equivalent of Drabs? Constantly scouring their bodies of any Investiture / Investiture-related materials or whatever.

On that note, perhaps Duralumin Savants become something like a Nalthian with one Breath? A very, very, limited life sense, and slightly more healthy than your average Scadrial Joe.  And then when they stop burning, they feel like a Drab.  ...yeah, probably not.  

Nicrosil and Chromium Savants: they constantly want to touch people...?  'Cause that's the only way they can use their powers to get a discernible effect. "Your love language is physical touch." 

 

[RShara]

28 minutes ago, Weltall said:

Brandon has mentioned that he wants there to me significant consequences for an allomantic savant, which is why he's not entirely happy with how Wax is working. Long WoB here for reference. Something like 'metal blindness' could be an interesting extrapolation of what they already have, but it might be problematic since we've got Inquisitors who spend so much time burning the metals that they become savants more or less by default, and they need their allomancy to 'see'. Might be going too far down the consequence side. Maybe something along the lines of pushing/pulling all metals in range and having trouble isolating it to just the metal they want to affect?

I know, that's why I'm wondering if that would be the drawback. Either that, or their eyesight would just get really bad, to the point where they have to use steelsight to see.

[EmeraldMind]

On 5/11/2018 at 4:30 PM, Weltall said:

Zinc/Brass: Having these powers be 'always on' when you have the metal inside you could be an option, though it's kind of tricky since we know a Soother/Rioter can control the emotions they're affecting. Maybe a low-level effect on all emotions that you'd never notice because it's hitting everything at once could work, but you'd think the allomancer would notice they're burning through their metal without meaning to.

To be fair, I don't think of Zinc/Brass burners as subconsciously burning metals constantly, I see it as a compulsion to use their powers, however they can. Breeze has some interesting perspectives we we are in his PoV in WoA. Breeze idly makes guards and maids day a little bit better by subtly soothing them (focusing attentiveness for the guards, and chattiness for the maids), he later complains to Clubs that he does it because he can, but at the same time it annoys him (followed by a great line about wearing pink, carrying flowers, and making a killing at weddings). He also mentions that he is never sure if those that love him do because he forced them to or if they are genuine. This seems to be almost an addiction for Breeze to use his powers, and despite the side effects he can't help but to keep doing it. The reason I think Breeze is under the negative effects of a Savant is that he seems to have become a slave to his compulsion.

[EmeraldMind]

On 5/11/2018 at 4:42 PM, Zath said:

Do you have the Mistborn Adventure Game?  (It's where the short story The Eleventh Metal was originally published.)  It actually has some stuff about how Savants are affected by each metal.

No, never had money to pick it up. I'm going to elect to ignore it as Sanderson will probably change them in the future anyway.

[Thrand_Antharo]

I have an idea for iron and steel, although it could manifest only when burning the metal.

The side-effect could be a constant version of Wax's steel bubble but stronger and permanent i.e. all metal is either pulled to or pushed from the Savant. This would mean that if Wax tried to walk through a metal door frame while burning, he would either be crushed or the door frame would break.