How long has Dalinar been using Stormlight?

[Rlain]

So this is kind of an interesting question, but how long has Dalinar been using Stormlight?

 

From his interaction with the Stormfather towards the end, it would seem he only spoke the first oath there, but there are a couple other things that would imply that he has used stormlight before.

 

First, there is his amazing fighting capabilities.  We know from Kaladin that Syl, or the stormlight that came with her, grant a surgebinder better fighting instincts.

 

 

“It’s like when I first picked up a spear,” Kaladin whispered. “I was just a child. Were you with me back then? All that time ago?”

“No,” Syl said, “and yes.”

Sanderson, Brandon (2014-03-04). Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 613). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

 

“So everything I’ve done,” Kaladin said. “My skill with the spear, the way I fight. That’s not me. It’s you.”

“It’s us.”

“It’s cheating. Unearned.”

Sanderson, Brandon (2014-03-04). Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 613). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

 

And as we all know, the Blackthorn was known as the greatest fighter of his time.

 

Next, we have an interesting scene in WoK where Dalinar catches the claw of a Chasamfiend, and afterwards notices that his shardplate has broken gems in it.  My thought is that he drew on those gems in order to get the strength needed to catch the claw, something that others thought wasn't possible, even in a shardplate.

 

Finally, there is an interesting exchange between Dalinar and one of the healers towards the end of WoR

 

“Storms,” the surgeon said. “Highprince, you’re all scars under here. How many times have you been wounded in the shoulder?”

“Can’t remember.”

“How can you still use your arm?”

“Training and practice.”

“That’s not how it works . . .” she whispered, eyes wide. “I mean . . . storms . . .”

Sanderson, Brandon (2014-03-04). Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 1003). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

 

To me this is definitely implying that Dalinar has been using stormlight to both heal himself in small ways, so that wounds that would normally have caused serious internal scarring heal perfectly, and to gain an edge in fighting over just what the Shardplate grants him.  

 

This would imply that he has been using Stormlight to augment his fighting for years, possibly before Gavilar's death.

 

What do people think?

 

*Edited for spacing*

Edited March 12, 2014 by Rlain

[ricree]

My guess is that the providing the visions functions as the first step of a bond between Dalinar and the Stormfather.

[Bloodfalcon]

I'm not so sure. He has been in Shardplate for years and that usually disrupts Surgebinding and Stormlight inhalation (as it wasn't full KR plate). So his fighting abilities are his own as far as I can tell. 

 

And the fact that there is a lot of scarring actually says the wounds weren't healed by Stormlight, unless there is some caveat of the healing we don't know about.

 

The convincing one is the catching the claw thing, but even that is explainable. Stormlight drains from the Shardplate as the plate is used, so that much durability being expended might have done it, but my other thought is that we know another Surgebinder was around Dalinar at the time - Renarin - who did end up helping. Not sure how it explains Dalinar himself being the one to catch the claw, which is the most convincing piece of the theory, but  it's possible perhaps that Renarin also granted Dalinar some Stormlight unintentionally. 

 

I guess it's hard to say because we don't know how long the Almighty spren has been watching him, but it's not an impossibility by any means!

[Shardlet]

I'm not so sure. He has been in Shardplate for years and that usually disrupts Surgebinding and Stormlight inhalation (as it wasn't full KR plate). So his fighting abilities are his own as far as I can tell. 

 

And the fact that there is a lot of scarring actually says the wounds weren't healed by Stormlight, unless there is some caveat of the healing we don't know about.

 

The convincing one is the catching the claw thing, but even that is explainable. Stormlight drains from the Shardplate as the plate is used, so that much durability being expended might have done it, but my other thought is that we know another Surgebinder was around Dalinar at the time - Renarin - who did end up helping. Not sure how it explains Dalinar himself being the one to catch the claw, which is the most convincing piece of the theory, but  it's possible perhaps that Renarin also granted Dalinar some Stormlight unintentionally. 

 

I guess it's hard to say because we don't know how long the Almighty spren has been watching him, but it's not an impossibility by any means!

 

I think you are reading too much into Szeth's prologue comments, Blood.  I think it is more likely that Szeth's surgebinding would drain the stormlight from the plate's gemstones and thus quickly immobilizing him if he used the plate.  Also, it could interfere with physical contact for his lashings.  I did not see anything though that would indicate that it would it would interfere with stormlight inhalation.

 

I think you are right Rlain.  Dalinar glowed when he caught the chasmfiend claw.  That suggests to me stormlight inhalation.  As to the healing and the scars.  It is possible that his body only took in enough stormlight to give him the edge in healing rather than fully healing him.  I would expect that this would still result in scars.

[Bloodfalcon]

I think you are reading too much into Szeth's prologue comments, Blood.  I think it is more likely that Szeth's surgebinding would drain the stormlight from the plate's gemstones and thus quickly immobilizing him if he used the plate.  Also, it could interfere with physical contact for his lashings.  I did not see anything though that would indicate that it would it would interfere with stormlight inhalation.

 

I think you are right Rlain.  Dalinar glowed when he caught the chasmfiend claw.  That suggests to me stormlight inhalation.  As to the healing and the scars.  It is possible that his body only took in enough stormlight to give him the edge in healing rather than fully healing him.  I would expect that this would still result in scars.

 

Perhaps I am putting too much weight on the prologue stuff, but it doesn't change the real points: Shardplate, and really all gem based items (fabrials as well), use the stormlight in the gems attached to them, and when too much is drawn, the gems crack. Additionally, we have seen non-Radiants glowing before. 

 

The scars thing I am more confident on. It does seem like a good way to say he might be healing himself, but Kaladin was literally hung up in a highstorm and almost died of the injuries, then healed via stormlight and there isn't any indicator. Hell, Lopen is growing limbs. I think it is a stretch to say Dalinar's body only used half the stormlight required, so there is scarring. 

To me it also seems like something that spren grant (obviously) - and while Dalinar does have some relationship with this spren, it is also doing just about everything it can to spite him. He basically trapped it in oaths, so I don't really think it was allowing Stormlight inhalation before that. 

[krainik]

Don't we have WoB that healing depends, at least to some extent, on the person's self-visualization of who they are?

Examples of this are:

 - The Lopen's arm healing - he never truly accepted losing the arm as part of him.

 - Renarin's eyes healing - again, never accepted that as part of himself, alluded to by Kaladin's criticism of him not wearing his glasses anymore as him trying to fit in with Bridge Four.

 - Kaladin's scars not healing. To Kaladin, they're part of his identity and the slave is still a part of him. I imagine at some point, perhaps when the 4th or 5th oath is spoken, we'll see these scars healed.

 

I think Dalinar's wounds were healed or at least helped in the healing process by stormlight, but since he was completely unaware of this, his mind still expected scars to be formed. Thus we get lots and lots of scarring without the complete inability to function because of it.

 

I think Dalinar has probably been using stormlight subconsciously for quite awhile. Probably at least as long as he's had the Highstorm visions, maybe quite a bit longer.

 

Off topic a bit, I think surgebinding has a great deal to do with the cognitive aspect of things; with your intentions, your imagination, and your connection to your spren (a cognitive being). So stormlight healing, and its limits, being so dependent upon how the user views his/herself cognitively makes a lot of sense.

[Bloodfalcon]

Great first post. Good point. I don't see it as holding much water, but it is relevant. I don't think Dalinar identifies with his scars more than Lopen possibly could have with a missing arm. Additionally, In the time we have seen Dalinar getting highstorm visions, he hasn't had a single arm injury that would cause a scar. I thought the same thing - that he had maybe had the attention of that spren since those visions (maybe why he sees them), so there really is no reason to believe he might have been using Stormlight previously. 

[RShara]

I think he's been using a little bit of Stormlight since the visions began, with the visions being the beginnings of the Nahel bond.  Examples cited above such as when he catches the claw, and the familiar feeling when he first deliberately breathes it in, as well as how easy it was for him to do so. 

When the Stormfather started talking to him directly, I think is when he was able to draw in enough to feel it consciously (thus the familiar feeling from the battlefield).

 

Kaladin was able to breathe in stormlight before he actually spoke the ideals, so it's likely Dalinar was able to as well.