The Parshendi are dead, but they can be revived like shardblades?

[marianmi]

We know parshendi are more in Shadesmar than humans - they can hear the rhythms, they even consider themselves some kind of relatives to spren.

 

It's even more interesting then that Eshonai the Voidbringer hears (her) SCREAMS when attuning the rhythm of peace. This is very similar to how radiants hear the old shardblade spren SCREAMING when touching the blades.

 

Thus, basically, Parshendi voidbringers are as dead as the old radiants spren. Since we know one can be "resurrected", it means the other also can, in a similar way. Currently, their ... "consciousness" ... have been ripped away, probably just from the physical. 

 

Attuning to peace effect = being a radiant, having a nahel bond with spren effect ...

 

Let's find some similarities here, I think this have the potential to spring some good theories on how the shardblades can be "reawaken".

 

 

On a lighter tone - if Kaladin does end up with Syl, we now know their kid is gonna be a Parshendi

Edited March 11, 2014 by marianmi

[Moogle]

It's even more interesting then that Eshonai the Voidbringer hears (her) SCREAMS when attuning the rhythm of peace. This is very similar to how radiants hear the old shardblade spren SCREAMING when touching the blades.

 

I think your theory is interesting, but this is the part that gets me - you note that she hears screams, just like a Shardblade, so why can't it be that the screams she hears is her Shardblade? It would make sense that when a listener takes on a voidform that they get an upgrade similar to a Radiant speaking the oaths, and so can sense the Shardblade screams when they touch one.

 

Listeners are not 'forces' like spren, so I think when they die, they actually die.

[marianmi]

I think your theory is interesting, but this is the part that gets me - you note that she hears screams, just like a Shardblade, so why can't it be that the screams she hears is her Shardblade? It would make sense that when a listener takes on a voidform that they get an upgrade similar to a Radiant speaking the oaths, and so can sense the Shardblade screams when they touch one.

 

Listeners are not 'forces' like spren, so I think when they die, they actually die.

 

Because she says she hears *herself* screaming.

 

Edited March 11, 2014 by marianmi

[zandi]

I took it to mean that her true self was repressed by the storm form spren - not that she was dead - rather that the spren was occupying a larger part of her will. Not truly possessed in the classic sense, because there is always a symbiosis of sorts with what ever form spren they are communing with to attain a given form, but more of that spren being more dominant than they usually are. Her true self doesn't like this and recognizes that the stormform spren is corrupted - but too late  - thus the screaming at the unwilling symbiosis and dominance of the corrupted spren. Not death.

[Moogle]

Because she says she hears *herself* screaming.

 

But she's not screaming. She's not trapped in her own head. Even if she was, why would she only initially hear it when she tunes in to Peace? Why would it change so she hears it all the time? She's being heavily influenced by the spren, but she's still Eshonai, or so it seems to me. Her arguments to Adolin about the Parshendi finally taking their turns as destroyers seemed like an Eshonai thing to say, and I couldn't entirely disagree with her logic. Her people did sort of kill Gavilar to prevent themselves being turned into sorta-slaves of Odium.

 

When Kaladin touches the Shardbearer's Blade in the Adolin duel, he thinks he hears Syl screaming. We have precedence for people misunderstanding what they hear.

 

Also, this may be the first time a Voidbringer has ever held a Shardblade. The Recreance didn't happen before the last Desolation, so I can't imagine they'd ever have gotten ahold of a Blade before. I'd expect some sort of dissonance to be created from a servant of Odium holding a splinter of Honor.

Edited March 11, 2014 by Moogle

[zandi]

But she's not screaming. She's not trapped in her own head. Even if she was, why would she only initially hear it when she tunes in to Peace? Why would it change so she hears it all the time? She's being heavily influenced by the spren, but she's still Eshonai, or so it seems to me. Her arguments to Adolin about the Parshendi finally taking their turns as destroyers seemed like an Eshonai thing to say, and I couldn't entirely disagree with her logic. Her people did sort of kill Gavilar to prevent themselves being turned into sorta-slaves of Odium.

 

When Kaladin touches the Shardbearer's Blade in the Adolin duel, he thinks he hears Syl screaming. We have precedence for people misunderstanding what they hear.

 

Also, this may be the first time a Voidbringer has ever held a Shardblade. The Recreance didn't happen before the last Desolation, so I can't imagine they'd ever have gotten ahold of a Blade before. I'd expect some sort of dissonance to be created from a servant of Odium holding a splinter of Honor.

I understood it as she is trapped in her own head - in a way. Part of her objects to what the rest of her is doing under the increased dominance of the spren. Almost a multiple personality disorder.  She is internally very conflicted. Her personality before her bonding with the storm form spren was not evil or overly aggressive even though she is wearing war form. To me this indicates her basic/true self is much more peaceful.  She can hear the conflict within herself more when attuned to Peace because Peace is meditation=mindfulness = more self aware. When not in Peace mode she is more able to shove this objection/screaming/discomfort aside with other thoughts. When in Peace/meditation those come more to the forefront with self-awareness. She is confronted with the conflict.  Kind of a yoga thing - at least that was how I read it.

[Cayden]

I took it all to be similar to what happened with

Marsh when Ruin was released, they were still in there but they were essentially being used as a puppet with limited self control, I suspect that in the Parshendi's case everything except the most violent and hateful emotions have been supressed

 

[zandi]

 

 

I took it all to be similar to what happened with

Spoiler 

Marsh when Ruin was released, they were still in there but they were essentially being used as a puppet with limited self control, I suspect that in the Parshendi's case everything except the most violent and hateful emotions have been supressed

 

 

 

Yep this makes sense. I think the corrupted storm form spren add to those negative emotions significantly making them dominant.

[marianmi]

As Syl, Pattern, Ivory etc are intelligent spren, that can talk into their bonded's mind, so we can assume the voidspren are intelligent, and their mind/intent ... merges ... with the parshendi ... or replaces a piece of the parshendi mind.

Shardblades spren had their "consciousness ripped" and now they scream in agony - similarly, parshendi had a part of their mind "ripped" (the one with happy, peaceful thoughts), and now that part screams in agony.

[PudgyNinja]

Stormform Eshonai is pestered by a spren that won't leave her alone at the same time she's dealing with the screaming from inside her.  At one point, it causes her to gasp and a "cometlike spren" comes shooting out of her chest.  It seems like there is another spren aside from the storm spren that is trying to bring back the old Eshonai.  

[Vortaan]

As Syl, Pattern, Ivory etc are intelligent spren, that can talk into their bonded's mind, so we can assume the voidspren are intelligent, and their mind/intent ... merges ... with the parshendi ... or replaces a piece of the parshendi mind.

Shardblades spren had their "consciousness ripped" and now they scream in agony - similarly, parshendi had a part of their mind "ripped" (the one with happy, peaceful thoughts), and now that part screams in agony.

 

Correction: we can assume -some- voidspren are intelligent. The listener bond and the nahel bond are different enough that I'm not sure there's enough Cognitive flow between a Parshendi and the spren it's bonding to allow the spren to be sapient in the Physical realm. Stormspren in particular might not be intelligent at all, since they seem to represent a natural force and all intelligent spren so far represent abstract concepts.

[Seloun]

I had a similar theory, though it was more about the spren inhabiting the Parshendi providing them their sentience (their bodies are basically shells). This might explain why they're so taboo about touching their dead - each 'dead' Parshendi is actually a potential host. There certainly seems to be some kind of symbiotic relationship between the spren and the Parshendi, anyway.

 

Kaladin has an interesting response to Wit asking about, well, wit, in WoK:

 

 

“I’ll tell him you said that,” Hoid noted, eyes twinkling. “But I think it’s inaccurate. One can have a wit, but not a witless. What is a wit?”

 

“I don’t know. Some kind of spren in your head, maybe, that makes you think?”

 

Hoid cocked his head, then laughed. “Why, I suppose that’s as good an explanation as any.” He stood up, dusting off his black trousers.

 

Maybe it's literally true for Parshendi.

[maxal]

I took it to mean that her true self was repressed by the storm form spren - not that she was dead - rather that the spren was occupying a larger part of her will. Not truly possessed in the classic sense, because there is always a symbiosis of sorts with what ever form spren they are communing with to attain a given form, but more of that spren being more dominant than they usually are. Her true self doesn't like this and recognizes that the stormform spren is corrupted - but too late  - thus the screaming at the unwilling symbiosis and dominance of the corrupted spren. Not death.

 

That's what I assumed when I read it. By taking stormform, she let another "sentient" into her that overtook her will. However, being strong willed, she managed to retain one glimmer of conscience that is utterly horrified by what is going on. The scream she hears is her old self trapped inside as a powerless witness trying to do "something". That glimmer will most likely be what brings back Eshonai as I do not think she will die or continue as a voidbringer.

[Moogle]

Stormform Eshonai is pestered by a spren that won't leave her alone at the same time she's dealing with the screaming from inside her.  At one point, it causes her to gasp and a "cometlike spren" comes shooting out of her chest.  It seems like there is another spren aside from the storm spren that is trying to bring back the old Eshonai.  

 

Most likely it's her Shardblade. With the Investiture from Odium, she likely has gained a sensitivity for magic and thus can hear her Shardblade screaming at her, or else her Shardblade is instinctively reacting against Odium's Investiture, much like Syl becomes feral when hearing his name.

Edited May 3, 2014 by Moogle

[maxal]

Most likely it's her Shardblade. With the Investiture from Odium, she likely has gained a sensitivity for magic and thus can hear her Shardblade screaming at her, or else her Shardblade is instinctively reacting against Odium's Investiture, much like Syl becomes feral when hearing his name.

 

Except all other characters hearing shardblades screaming are clearly identifying the source of this scream as being the shardblade itself. Also, they only hear the scream when they yield the shardblade, therefore Eshonai who was not directly carrying her shardblade at the moment could not have been hearing it screamed.

[Moogle]

Except all other characters hearing shardblades screaming are clearly identifying the source of this scream as being the shardblade itself. Also, they only hear the scream when they yield the shardblade, therefore Eshonai who was not directly carrying her shardblade at the moment could not have been hearing it screamed.

 

Here's a WoB:

 

Q:  Do we see the highspren at all in Words of Radiance? And if so, do they look like a comet?

A:  That's a good question. That's a gooood, good question. I will say this, the comet, hmm, the comet spren. The comet spren is very important to an order of Knights Radiant.

 

I do believe Eshonai is the first Voidbringer to ever be bonded to a Shardblade. There's bound to be some whacky results, like her Shardblade summoning itself as it tries to run away from her Odium-Investiture.

[Aleksiel]

Kaladin talked about some folklore believes of Voidbringers bringing back/possessing the dead, so may be voidspren could inhabit a dead parshendi body. One of the problems here is it would give Voidbringers  a huge advantage that's hard to overcome. But it fits the title, because like the Shardblades, the dead parshendi would be just a little alive in a non-traditional fashion. 

 

There's likely some ground in the believe, because it has clearly influenced funeral rituals - souldcasting or burning the dead body. The Parshedi don't move the bodies of their dead, which I'm not sure how exactly fits in all of this; parshmen take care of their dead, basically the only thing they are passionate about. So there must be something.

[Pathfinder]

I need to find exact quotes but I think it is shown in some places that you can be bonded to a dead shardblade and be a radiant, but only when you summon it or hold it, is when it screams. Based on this there are numerous scenes where Eshonai is walking around WITHOUT her shardblade in her hand, and yet she hears the screams. But then again this is based on an assumption I still need to find examples to prove.