I think Skai is Unity/Cohesion

[Mad_Scientist]

I came up with this idea when reading Elantris for the first time recently. I found some posts written in this forum that suggested the same thing, but no one has started a thread to really examine the topic that I could see.

This isn't some super organized perfect theory like some of the posts I've seen here. I'm afraid I haven't yet come up with any definite idea as to how everything works. But I figured it couldn't hurt to post here anyways, and what other people think and if they can maybe fill in some of the gaps or figure out what I have not. Anyways...

What makes me think Skai is Unity (or something similiar)? Well, for one thing, there are a lot of references to unity throughout the book and in the magic system.

Let's start with the obvious: Shu-Keseg, Shu-Dereth, and Shu-Korath all preach unity in various ways. The Fjordil in particular seem obsessed with a forced unity, uniting the world underneath their rule.

But let's consider AonDor. Based on it's name, one would assume that AonDor is associated with Aona, who held a Shard that was a synonym for Love. But oddly enough, there are a lot more associations with unity/oneness in AonDor than there are with love.

There is the obvious fact that AonDor is based on the land itself, requiring that the Aons be drawn in such a way that they mimic the land. There is the fact that the users of AonDor, the Elantrians, are directly connected to and one with their city. There is the fact that Aons are based on constellations and the land of Arelon, meaning that either Arelon was shaped to resemble certain constellations or that the constellations were shaped after Arelon.

There is the fact that the sheod only takes those in Arelon, and only those who have Arelish blood, and both Arelon and Arelish have the Aon "Are" in them, which means "Unity/Cohesion."

Then there is the Dor itself, which is described as some universal force that is in everything and is everywhere. And it desires to make everything a part of it:

"Raoden smiled; the explanation sounded too religiously mysterious to be useful. But then he thought of his dream, his memories of what had happened so long ago. When the Elantrian healer had drawn her Aon, it appeared as if a tear were appearing in the air behind her finger. Raoden could still feel the chaotic power raging behind that tear, the massive force trying to press its way through the Aon to get at him. It sought to overwhelm him, to break him down until he became part of it. However, the healer's carefully constructed Aon had funneled the power into a usable form, and it had healed Raoden's leg instead of destroying him." Elantris, page 276, mass market paperback.

I realize my thoughts have probably seemed a bit rambling, and I apologize for that. As I said I'm afraid I don't have a good idea what all this means in the larger scheme of things. I suspect that AonDor has some connection between both Aona and Skai, but I'm not sure how exactly.

Anyways, what do people think? Does my speculation have merit, or is it all a bunch of nonsense.

[Asha'man Logain]

I came up with this idea when reading Elantris for the first time recently. I found some posts written in this forum that suggested the same thing, but no one has started a thread to really examine the topic that I could see.

This isn't some super organized perfect theory like some of the posts I've seen here. I'm afraid I haven't yet come up with any definite idea as to how everything works. But I figured it couldn't hurt to post here anyways, and what other people think and if they can maybe fill in some of the gaps or figure out what I have not. Anyways...

What makes me think Skai is Unity (or something similiar)? Well, for one thing, there are a lot of references to unity throughout the book and in the magic system.

Let's start with the obvious: Shu-Keseg, Shu-Dereth, and Shu-Korath all preach unity in various ways. The Fjordil in particular seem obsessed with a forced unity, uniting the world underneath their rule.

But let's consider AonDor. Based on it's name, one would assume that AonDor is associated with Aona, who held a Shard that was a synonym for Love. But oddly enough, there are a lot more associations with unity/oneness in AonDor than there are with love.

There is the obvious fact that AonDor is based on the land itself, requiring that the Aons be drawn in such a way that they mimic the land. There is the fact that the users of AonDor, the Elantrians, are directly connected to and one with their city. There is the fact that Aons are based on constellations and the land of Arelon, meaning that either Arelon was shaped to resemble certain constellations or that the constellations were shaped after Arelon.

There is the fact that the sheod only takes those in Arelon, and only those who have Arelish blood, and both Arelon and Arelish have the Aon "Are" in them, which means "Unity/Cohesion."

Then there is the Dor itself, which is described as some universal force that is in everything and is everywhere. And it desires to make everything a part of it:

"Raoden smiled; the explanation sounded too religiously mysterious to be useful. But then he thought of his dream, his memories of what had happened so long ago. When the Elantrian healer had drawn her Aon, it appeared as if a tear were appearing in the air behind her finger. Raoden could still feel the chaotic power raging behind that tear, the massive force trying to press its way through the Aon to get at him. It sought to overwhelm him, to break him down until he became part of it. However, the healer's carefully constructed Aon had funneled the power into a usable form, and it had healed Raoden's leg instead of destroying him." Elantris, page 276, mass market paperback.

I realize my thoughts have probably seemed a bit rambling, and I apologize for that. As I said I'm afraid I don't have a good idea what all this means in the larger scheme of things. I suspect that AonDor has some connection between both Aona and Skai, but I'm not sure how exactly.

Anyways, what do people think? Does my speculation have merit, or is it all a bunch of nonsense.

If I recall correctly Brandon said that the Shards tend to fall in pairs, in an "opposites attract" kind of way, but he was specifically talking about Preservation and Ruin. He said that none of them will fit as prefectly as those two, but with the same general feel.

I believe someone else on here had a theory that TSFHBA (the shard formerly held by Aona) was Devotion. Maybe Skai was selfishness or greed? what if Skai actually powers the Dor and Aona provides the channel to use the power safely?

[Mad_Scientist]

If I recall correctly Brandon said that the Shards tend to fall in pairs, in an "opposites attract" kind of way, but he was specifically talking about Preservation and Ruin. He said that none of them will fit as prefectly as those two, but with the same general feel.

I believe someone else on here had a theory that TSFHBA (the shard formerly held by Aona) was Devotion. Maybe Skai was selfishness or greed? what if Skai actually powers the Dor and Aona provides the channel to use the power safely?

Hmm. I think he was probably just talking about Ruin/Preservation specifically there, and that we shouldn't assume other worlds that have more than one Shard are because the Shards are something opposite of each other. For one thing, we know Aona is a Love synonym and Odium is in fact a synonum for Hate, but they were not found on the same world. (Of course, Odium later went to Sel and killed Aona)

Also, on Roshar, we have Odium (Hate), Honor, and Cultivation, a very odd combination of three Shards.

I do actually agree with you that Skai powers the Dor and Aona provides a way to channel it in AonDor, that was kind of what I was trying to get at when I said I felt AonDor is a combination of their powers. I'm not totally sure how the connection works though.

[Truthless]

I thought Aona was a synonym for Charity? Or is it both? I dunno.

Anyway, your theory seems solid. Definitely helps to make sense of AonDor and where it fits in to things.

[Mad_Scientist]

I thought Aona was a synonym for Charity? Or is it both? I dunno.

Anyway, your theory seems solid. Definitely helps to make sense of AonDor and where it fits in to things.

I can't seem to find the exact quote where Brandon originally talked about Aona's shard, but many people think that Aona holds Devotion based on the following twitter exchange.

Chaos: So Aona is a synonym for love, hmm? Is Charity the correct Shard name?

Brandon: Not quite. I'm trying to remember what the guesses were for the other Shard on Sel. I may have dismissed them too quickly.

Chaos: How about Mercy for Aona, then? The guesses for Skai's Shard include Devotion, Obedience, and Order

Brandon: Okay, I was right, then. Ha There's something very ironic in all of this.

Devotion, Compassion, Love, Charity... depending on context they can all mean similiar things.

[Silus - Shard of Flame]

I get the feeling that the Dor in general is sort of like Feruchemy, in that it can't be attributed to one Shard in particular, but is rather a compromise between both. The differences between Shards are going to be in how it's utilized, with AonDor, Dakhor magic, if that actually does tap into the Dor, and whatever it is that ClayShen (ClayShan? I'm not sure on that one) turns out to be.

[Chaos]

If I recall correctly Brandon said that the Shards tend to fall in pairs, in an "opposites attract" kind of way, but he was specifically talking about Preservation and Ruin. He said that none of them will fit as prefectly as those two, but with the same general feel.

Josh (Rubix) does indeed say this is the case, though I wish I had the exact question/quote, of course.

EDIT: To be precise, this is what Josh said, and I have not heard any specific reference that they "tend to fall in pairs." That is a more implicit assumption. If you have a clear quote, I'm first in line in wanting to hear it.

Brandon has confirmed that while some of the Shard's powers are similar, none are as close as Ruin and Preservation.

I think of it like Allomancy. Sure, there is Pushing and Pulling, which are opposite powers, but you also have tin and pewter, which while they are pairs, they aren't opposites, just complementary. I think this is the case with Aona and Skai. It is perfectly possible that Skai is Unity (or at least a synonym of it).

As for AonDor being of Skai, I don't know about that. It feels right having it linked with Aona, simply based upon the name, but it's hard to know what the Dor is. Possible, I suppose. There's not enough information to really make a detailed judgment.

Edited June 27, 2011 by Chaos

[happyman]

Hmmm. I've said this before, but my take on the Dor is that it absolutely must be some kind of compromise between the Shards. There's plenty of evidence that all the magics on Sel use the Dor as their source: Elantrians can feel Dahkor monks using it; the Dahkor themselves think it's the same thing; the visual effects (e.g. glowing, strength, speed, etc.) overlap heavily between the different systems, and so on. The differences we do see are how and when the power is accessed, but not, as it were, what the power is or does.

[Chaos]

Hmmm. I've said this before, but my take on the Dor is that it absolutely must be some kind of compromise between the Shards. There's plenty of evidence that all the magics on Sel use the Dor as their source: Elantrians can feel Dahkor monks using it; the Dahkor themselves think it's the same thing; the visual effects (e.g. glowing, strength, speed, etc.) overlap heavily between the different systems, and so on. The differences we do see are how and when the power is accessed, but not, as it were, what the power is or does.

Skai wanted to unite his and Aona's power. Okay, it's a bad pun, but it could happen. That is, if Skai is Unity.

[Zas678]

I have a feeling AonDor is most likely to be connected to Aona, just like Lerasium had to do with Leras, and Atium had to do with Ati. And since we have the above quote that Aona is some sort of synonym of Charity...

Chaos: So Aona is a synonym for love, hmm? Is Charity the correct Shard name?

Brandon: Not quite. I'm trying to remember what the guesses were for the other Shard on Sel. I may have dismissed them too quickly.

Chaos: How about Mercy for Aona, then? The guesses for Skai's Shard include Devotion, Obedience, and Order

Brandon: Okay, I was right, then. Ha There's something very ironic in all of this.

Actually, looking at that quote, it makes me think: What if the ironic part of the conversation was that we were right- but for the wrong shard? What if the Aona was Unity? Or Devotion?

The one thing that really stops this is the Seons. They are based off of Aons, and they are entirely about service, giving, and caring for their masters; rather like the Elantrians.

On the other hand, The Skaze (which seems to be based off of Skai) seem to be integrated with Fjrodell politics, and as "evil Seons", they seem to support the Fjordell ideas of Unity.

[CrazyRioter]

I think the Seons are a good argument for Aona being Devotion.

[Chaos]

I agree. But moreover, I think Devotion and Unity (or something very similar to Unity) are Shards on Sel.

[Mad_Scientist]

I have a feeling AonDor is most likely to be connected to Aona, just like Lerasium had to do with Leras, and Atium had to do with Ati. And since we have the above quote that Aona is some sort of synonym of Charity...

Actually, looking at that quote, it makes me think: What if the ironic part of the conversation was that we were right- but for the wrong shard? What if the Aona was Unity? Or Devotion?

The one thing that really stops this is the Seons. They are based off of Aons, and they are entirely about service, giving, and caring for their masters; rather like the Elantrians.

On the other hand, The Skaze (which seems to be based off of Skai) seem to be integrated with Fjrodell politics, and as "evil Seons", they seem to support the Fjordell ideas of Unity.

Well, in an earlier quote Brandon confirmed that Aona was a love synonym (though I can't find it right now), so I agree that the ironic part was likely that one of the guesses for Skai (Devotion) was actually Aona's correct name. Devotion is a love synonym, afterall.

I don't think Brandon has ever responded to a guess for Unity for either shard. And the only things we know for certain about Skai is that it is not Order/Devotion/Obedience. But I suspect it will turn out to be Unity or something similiar.

Regarding your point about the Seons and the Skaze, that actually fits if Aona is Devotion and Skai is Unity. The Seons are extremely devoted to their masters, and the Skaze (which apparantly are related to Skai) do work to help the Fjordell unite the world under them.

Edited June 28, 2011 by Mad_Scientist

[Chaos]

Well, in an earlier quote Brandon confirmed that Aona was a love synonym (though I can't find it right now), so I agree that the ironic part was likely that one of the guesses for Skai (Devotion) was actually Aona's correct name. Devotion is a love synonym, afterall.

I don't think Brandon has ever responded to a guess for Unity for either shard. And the only things we know for certain about Skai is that it is not Order/Devotion/Obedience. But I suspect it will turn out to be Unity or something similiar.

Regarding your point about the Seons and the Skaze, that actually fits if Aona is Devotion and Skai is Unity. The Seons are extremely devoted to their masters, and the Skaze (which apparantly are related to Skai) do work to help the Fjordell unite the world under them.

This has pretty much been my analysis. I think it makes most sense if Aona is Devotion.

However, I do worry that Unity is a little vague, from a Shard-intent point. I'm thinking Skai's actual Shard is some sort of synonym for that, but I can't decide on a synonym I like. So, for now, I like Unity.

[mycoltbug]

This has pretty much been my analysis. I think it makes most sense if Aona is Devotion.

However, I do worry that Unity is a little vague, from a Shard-intent point. I'm thinking Skai's actual Shard is some sort of synonym for that, but I can't decide on a synonym I like. So, for now, I like Unity.

What's way interesting is the synonym for Unity is also Harmony (Sazed's shardic name) though I agree that I can't find one that fits any better. Unless we go along the lines of Empathy or Peace. But still not sure how well I like those either.

[Chaos]

What's way interesting is the synonym for Unity is also Harmony (Sazed's shardic name) though I agree that I can't find one that fits any better. Unless we go along the lines of Empathy or Peace. But still not sure how well I like those either.

Technically, Harmony is not Sazed's Shard name. It appears to be what he calls himself. There is a difference between that and a Shard's name/intent.

Pedantry aside, yeah :/ I'm sad, because Harmony was the best synonym for Unity I could find...

[Mad_Scientist]

Technically, Harmony is not Sazed's Shard name. It appears to be what he calls himself. There is a difference between that and a Shard's name/intent.

Pedantry aside, yeah :/ I'm sad, because Harmony was the best synonym for Unity I could find...

If you don't like Unity, how about some of these possibilities:

Solidarity

In terms of names, I really like that one, it just sounds right for some reason.

Synthesis

Consolidation

These ones I like because they imply not just unity, but combining together into a single whole, which definitely fits aspects of the Fjordell.

[lordofsoup]

I like solidarity. Makes sense, everything having to be the same and such. Everything has to be one with the Fjordell way of thinking. And if they don't kill them.

[Silus - Shard of Flame]

If our thinking about Skai's Shard name is correct, it would make a lot of sense that Odium would want to kill him, seeing as Odium uses disunity between the various of factions of Roshar to his advantage. If Skai decided to get involved in what was going on there, Odium could be in some real trouble.

[Djerf]

I found this quote on my last reread of Elantris " Kseng taugth of Unity but is it Unity of mind as my people belive or is it Unity as your priests teach or is it the Unity of obidience as shu dereth say?" In a conversation between shuden and whats her name .

This is at least 20% rigth with aona being a synonym for love.

I was gonna throw a quote where ien tell raoden that it serves out of love as proof for aona being love but brandon Said that alredy.

Note: I Will edit this post for spelling and a letter for letter quote as soon as im on a pc instead of my cell phone but iv'e forgotten this Three Times this far and i realy felt this was importent when diskusting the shards on sel.

[pmj812]

I'm seeing a lot of "love synonym, charity synonym," etc. To me that means "Agape," (ah-GAH-pay) one of the four Greek words for Love, very important in Christian theology. Charity would be the closest translation and it means unconditional self-sacrificing love.

So an opposite for it, if Skai is the opposite, would be taking rather than freely giving. So while unity sounds benign and good, what about assimilation?

WHAT IF SKAI IS THE BORG?

but seriously, see if this makes sense:

If the aspect of love that we're supposed to get for Aona is giving, then Skai might be consuming. It may be that Fjordell doesn't want to unite the world, it wants to consume it.

Let me actually take all of this in a slightly new direction.

So there is the Dor, the energy which, when the Aon was improperly constructed, tried to pull Raoden in. What if Aona's essential nature is to give of the Dor to the world, and Skai's essential nature is to absorb the world into the Dor?

Think about this: when an Elantrian uses the Dor, they create an Aon outside of themselves to bestow energy on others. What we know of the monks on the other hand is that they can seemingly absorb AonDor energy, and think about their teleportation:

to teleport someone a monk must die. Why? Could it be that his soul is sucked into the Dor, leaving his body dead?

Give from the Dor, absorb into the Dor. I think that's how they're opposed.

Edited August 5, 2011 by pmj812