Shellan & the "Monsters" & Red carpet once White

[WitSpren]

We do not have a lot to go on:

 

Man Dead - Bloody

 

Woman Dead - (He mother I think) with horrible eyes - most likely killed by Shardblade.

 

Shellan considers herself to ba a "Monster"

 

Also, there is a "Monster" in the strongbox - glowing light.

 

 

 

 

I can think ot 2 senerios that might work for this.

1.

After a hard day Soulcasting at the Mines, her exausted dad gives the Soulcaster to her & tells her to take it to his den or to the strongbox. 

 

When she enters the den, she sees this man (intruder) attacking her mother with a Shardblade & since she is holding the Soulcaster - she inadvertently activates it killing him very bloodily.      His blade drops to the floor & she touches it - causing it to be "tuned" to her.    Then she drops it & it disappears - as they do.

 

She is screaming & shaking & crying - causes her father to come in & see (some of) what happened - & takes her away - telling her to forget those terriable things.

 

or

 

2.    Mostly the same, but she catches her mother & the man having an affair.      Mostly same result except that when she picks up the sword (11 year old with a light 6' blade) she could have in-advertently "touched" her Mother - killing her.

 

Add your additional plausable secerios.

 

 

 

[+Aletus]

There are a bunch of theories on this floating around - mostly centered on the strongbox and it's contents. Lot's of people think shardblade, soulcaster, spren, and my personal favorite - Odium (but it's horribly baseless, if not amazing)

 

Shallan wouldn't need a soulcaster to soulcast - if this was done accidentally, or was traumatic enough for her to block out some of the deets. 

[Morsk]

I think both "monsters" are weapons, maybe both swords, but the one in the safe might have to be smaller. Shallan thinks of herself as a monster because she just bonded the Shardblade, and became magically aware of the ability to summon it in ten heartbeats. She doesn't understand, and thinks she's a monster now, and never tells anyone about it. And she thinks of the weapon in the safe as a monster, because she killed someone with it or saw someone else kill with it. It's not glowing; the glow from the safe is just because there are spheres in there too, or maybe larger gems for Soulcasting.

[Duskshard]

I don't think that she killed anyone in that scene, I think that the murderer and monster she refers to is her father and that whatever is in the safe (that she also thinks of as a monster) is what he used to kill all those people and Shallan witnessed him do it.

 

I just can't see her reacting to Jasnah the way she did when she killed those 4 murderers if she had anything to do with those deaths. The only person I think she's killed is she father, and that she did that in self defence.

[WitSpren]

I don't think that she killed anyone in that scene, I think that the murderer and monster she refers to is her father and that whatever is in the safe (that she also thinks of as a monster) is what he used to kill all those people and Shallan witnessed him do it.

 

I just can't see her reacting to Jasnah the way she did when she killed those 4 murderers if she had anything to do with those deaths. The only person I think she's killed is she father, and that she did that in self defence.

I understand what you mean.     We have heard that her father was a tyrant & did not treat his family kindly, but the way I read the POV she clearly thinks that he should not hold and care for a Monster (her) after what she did.

 

I have been wrong before, but I do not think so on this part of the scene.

 

 

I also do not see how any Shardblade could be in the lockbox.     They specifically go to mist unless "held" by the owner?  

[Duskshard]

I understand what you mean.     We have heard that her father was a tyrant & did not treat his family kindly, but the way I read the POV she clearly thinks that he should not hold and care for a Monster (her) after what she did.

 

I have been wrong before, but I do not think so on this part of the scene.

  

 

That's how I read it at first too, but after a few more rereads I started to see it differently.

 

She looked up at her father with a shudder. She couldn’t blink; her eyes were frozen open.

 

 

She shuddered when she looked at him, as if she couldn't bare to look at him after what she'd seen him do.

 

Father gathered her into his arms, and she felt her skin squirming. No. No, this affection wasn’t right. A monster should not be held in love. A monster who killed, who murdered. No.

 

 

His touch made her skin squirm. I know read this as her rejecting the affection he's trying to show her by not returning it, because "a monster shouldn't be held in love"

 

 

I also do not see how any Shardblade could be in the lockbox.     They specifically go to mist unless "held" by the owner?  

 

I never said I thought it was a shardblade, just that he used what was in the box to kill those people, or as I've said on a different thread, that something in the box used him, or just made him lose control and go crazy.

[Kersplattle]

Actually Shardblades do not automatically go to mist after being released. I think it is WOB but not sure of the reference; when the King "lends" his shardplate and a shardblade to someone (for a large fee!) for a duel, the shardblade obviously cannot disappear, so there must be a mechanism to keep them in being. The reference I recall mentions that with training a shardbearer could will his shardblade to remain in the physical realm when released; it was a conscious act.

 

But I didn't know that shardblades glowed to the extent inferred by the reference to the strongbox. Gems do, my best guess is that it is the soulcaster and its gems, and that was used to kill the man involved (hence the blood, perhaps he was soulcast at least in part to blood so enough is spilt to make a carpet change colour). That person had a shardblade that then materialized which was used by the Father to kill the woman. Shallan gains the shardblade after she kills her father at a later stage, when he is possibly torturing or otherwise abusing Nan Balat (who is unconcious so doesn't see the blade, enabling Shallan to pick it up and bond with it).

 

I find it hard to believe that Shallan is the killer in the scene described, she is small enough to be picked up and carried by her father (so probably pre-teen and most likely around, say 6-9 years old). Sure shardblades are superlight, she could wield one, but how did she get it without first killing the original holder ? And if she did, why would she then kill her mother (if that's who the women is). And then, surely her dreadful truth would be that she killed her Mother or her parents ?

 

Hence I think it most likely that in the scene the killer is the Father, Shallan is reacting to his deeds, and is part of the reason she later kills him.

 

Of course so far one B.S. has proved pretty adept at "misleading" us (or rather writing scenes replete with ambiguity), so the above is a form of "rational" reasoning, and hence in no way necessarily correct for a work of fiction.

[WitSpren]

 

That's how I read it at first too, but after a few more rereads I started to see it differently.

 

 

"Father gathered her into his arms, and she felt her skin squirming. No. No, this affection wasn’t right. A monster should not be held in love. A monster who killed, who murdered. No."

 

Her Father was picking her up and holding her lovingly.      She was not holding him.       She is clearly thinking that he should not be treating her so lovingly after what she had done.

 

At least that is the way I see it.

 

@Kersplattle

 

"Actually Shardblades do not automatically go to mist after being released. I think it is WOB but not sure of the reference; when the King "lends" his shardplate and a shardblade to someone (for a large fee!) for a duel, the shardblade obviously cannot disappear, so there must be a mechanism to keep them in being. The reference I recall mentions that with training a shardbearer could will his shardblade to remain in the physical realm when released; it was a conscious act."    

 

Your statement is a bit contradictory - but the key part is " that with training a shardbearer could will his shardblade to remain in the physical realm when released; it was a conscious act."  

 

It takes training and a concious act - which an 11 year old girl who just acquired it, would not have.

 

 

 

[Gloom]

I find that I am suspect of almost all of Shallans memories from TWoKs. We have learned a few interesting facts about Cryptics and Shallan herself that lead me to believe that while Shallan may feel guilty about lying to others, she is a master of lying to herself. The flashbacks are I hope dependable recreations of what actually took place, and I think that as we see Shallans flashbacks, we will discover that much of what she believes about her own past are fabrications she created to maintain her own innocence and self image. I think we will see Shallan in a completely different light by the end of WoR.

 

That being the case, I find it very very difficult to parse any real meaning out of this short flashback. I feel as if I never really met Shallan, that she is a brand new character who has up until now been playing a role so well that she convinced herself of its veracity. I think that we will see the end of the act, that she will discover a new reality. I believe that she will break out of the shell she hid herself in now that she has the power to be everything she ever wanted to be.

[Kersplattle]

Witspren, I'm in no way suggesting that Shallan was the person who kept their shardblade in the physical realm after being released. I was responding to your earlier comment about shardblades automatically go "to mist" when released pointing out that although that is the default behaviour it is not the only outcome.

 

I'm an adherent of the school of thought that believes that in the flashback scene Shallan is an innocent exposed to terrible deeds by her father; and she does not have a shardblade at that point. I will freely admit that this view is sheer opinion for the reasons I give, I await further elucidation at Brandon's convenience...

 

I do have a sort of issue with the origins of Shallan's shardblade. If it was her family's heirloom, then it should be known about one would think, a Shardblade is only useful if used, kept secret for generations, that would seem unlikely. If given by the Ghostbloods, would they not be asking for it back, or is the threat that Nan Balat holds it all that keeps them from taking more overt action against Shallan's family so far ? That I rather doubt, he's a known (for it is obvious) cripple, or at least physically damaged in some way. So where does it come from, the most likely source seems to me to be from the man dead in that flashback, an assassin or perhaps a lover of Shallan's mother, or an unwanted "guest"; and Shallan's father first took and used the blade after killing the man and afterwards concealed his possession of it from everyone; except Shallan who had seen it. Problems with this, is that person not missed (if an assassin maybe explainable), and unless the father went back and mutilated the women's body, the use of a shardblade would be known...maybe explainable as "there was another assassin but they escaped...".

Edited February 19, 2014 by Kersplattle

[Humph]

 We have learned a few interesting facts about Cryptics and Shallan herself that lead me to believe that while Shallan may feel guilty about lying to others, she is a master of lying to herself.

 

Agreed, although I don't know if I would exactly call it "lying" to one's self.  Perhaps a refusal to face the truth, covering it over and suppressing (repressing even); over time (or quickly through response to trauma) resulting in a state or habit of self-deception.  The very mark of her essence that could enable her to attract and bond with a Liespren.

[WitSpren]

Witspren, I'm in no way suggesting that Shallan was the person who kept their shardblade in the physical realm after being released. I was responding to your earlier comment about shardblades automatically go "to mist" when released pointing out that although that is the default behaviour it is not the only outcome.

 

 

 

OK.  That explains the confusion I was viewing from the view of being Shallan's Shardblade.     I see no reason to add another blade in the mix.    It is surely possible,  but see nothing to hang that hat on.     My scenario also explains how she could acquire such a thing and why she would not have given it away to her father and/or brothers.     Because she has been suppressing all these memories from the beginning 6 years ago.

 

Guess we will just have to agree to disagree for at least another 2 weeks.    

[Swimmingly]

2 weeks. I so badly want the ars arcanum, but I solemnly swear I will not read the last pages first. Solemnly swear. I will..