Swimmingly Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 They are capitalised She is in an order of Surgebinders who are all about illusion and creating pictures They allow her to see certain spren They disappear when she's done with them/moved them. (Feruchemical copper anyone?) This all screams "magic" at me. I'm thinking "Illumination" is more like "projection of mental images" or even just "manipulation of senses" based on this. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_warko Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 They are capitalised She is in an order of Surgebinders who are all about illusion and creating pictures They allow her to see certain spren They disappear when she's done with them/moved them. (Feruchemical copper anyone?) This all screams "magic" at me. I'm thinking "Illumination" is more like "projection of mental images" or even just "manipulation of senses" based on this. To quote Wayne, "Zang!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brotherbard Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 I agree with you. There is also how she feels while holding then releasing a Memory: “The memorized image of Kharbranth was gone from her head; she’d released it into her sketch. There was a sense of relaxation to that too. As if her mind was put under tension holding Memories until they could be used.” And her description of taking a Memory of a person: “When she collected a Memory of a person, she was snipping free a bud of their soul, and she cultivated and grew it on the page.” Both quotes from Chapter 7 Anything Reasonable 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstSelector Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 I agree - I'm fairly confident (despite the limited evidence) that Surgebinding comes with additional "perks," such as increased healing/strength/speed (common to all), ability to form Memories (Lightweavers), and "becoming" the storm while dreaming (Windrunners). I think that once we learn more about the various orders we will encounter additional such perks unique to each order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skaa Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) I agree with you. There is also how she feels while holding then releasing a Memory: “The memorized image of Kharbranth was gone from her head; she’d released it into her sketch. There was a sense of relaxation to that too. As if her mind was put under tension holding Memories until they could be used.” And her description of taking a Memory of a person: “When she collected a Memory of a person, she was snipping free a bud of their soul, and she cultivated and grew it on the page.” Both quotes from Chapter 7 Anything Reasonable Interesting. I believed for some time now that Shallan's Memory ability is just an aspect of her Illumination Surgebinding ability, but the second quote makes it sound like Shallan's Memory is a hybrid of Illumination and Growth, which is weird because Shallan should not have access to Growth. Also... Tension?! damnation, and I thought I already had it all worked out with this Surgebinding thing... Edited February 18, 2014 by skaa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pechvarry Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 I don't see growth, despite that wording. If anything, I see an oblique reference to Cultivation's influence on the magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aminar Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 They are clearly part of her magic, but I really doubt they are an important part of the Illumination ability. More specifically they seem to be just a hint at what could actually be done. As in, she can most likely take and store a certain amount of memories and use them, in conjunction with Stormlight, as the basis for Illusions. (Also of note, both her memories and the lashings occur quite frequently with blinking/the closing of eyes involved. I never see much discussion about that. Could it be a brief connection to Shadesmar, like the longer ones with Soulcasting?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted February 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Notice, however, that she can lightweave her father's garden from memory despite not having an unused Memory of it. Of course, given that there are people who can do Shallan's Memory thing here on earth, it is possible that she just has a photographic memory combined with excellent artistic talent, and uses the blinking as a mnemonic device. And thinks of drawing people as snipping off bits of their souls and collecting them. Do you know how creepy that sounded to me when I heard it?! But I digress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PorridgeBrick Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) Notice, however, that she can lightweave her father's garden from memory despite not having an unused Memory of it. Of course, given that there are people who can do Shallan's Memory thing here on earth, it is possible that she just has a photographic memory combined with excellent artistic talent, and uses the blinking as a mnemonic device. And thinks of drawing people as snipping off bits of their souls and collecting them. Do you know how creepy that sounded to me when I heard it?! But I digress. Perhaps you can lightweave anything you have a strong memory or mental image of, and the Memories are a magical tool to produce those strong mental images. That way, she could still lightweave something she has no Memory for if the memory is vivid enough to her. As for how the Memories work: could she be storing the light as it enters her eyes using Lightweaving? Of course, that doesn't explain the seeing Shadesmar bit. I wonder if her connection to Shadesmar via her Transformation Surge allows some of the "light" from Shadesmar to reach her as well. Also, if the Illumination surge is responsible for Memories, that means Ym can make them too. It'd be a good question for Brandon to ask if he can. Edited February 17, 2014 by PorridgeBrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 I've always been sceptical when people say Shallan's Memories are the result of Surgebinding. It has always felt more similar to one of the Nightwatchers boons/curses, though how she would have ended up with it I do not know. Also keep in mind that to the best of our knowledge Shallan has been able to take Memories for years, it is not some recent development. I highly doubt that she has had a Nahel bond for that long and had never met her spren. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 I highly doubt that she has had a Nahel bond for that long and had never met her spren. WoR spoilers: Her spren was with her as far as back as her father's gardens. I agree with your main argument however. Memories are quite likely not a result of Surgebinding. It seems like something unique to Shallan, though I will concede that her Memories are going to let her do some very nice illusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Just because her spren was watching/observing her at that time does not mean a bond had been initiated. In fact with my understanding of the Cryptics it's very likely they observed her for quite some time before deciding she should be bonded. Also Pattern is very stunted at the time when he mentions that and it could be the nature of the bond the first memories he's recovering of pre-bond concern Shallan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 My biggest issue with this is that she doesn't use stormlight when taking a Memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted February 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Good point. Possibly Brandon just being trollish with all the strange quirks of her Memories to get us to think exactly this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cromptj Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 I have always thought that Memories were stored cognitive processes in Shadesmar, like a memory bank, so in theory, she should be able to store emotions and thoughts in there as well. I am pretty sure that every time Shallan takes a Memory, she is around spheres. She is always carrying them in her safe pouch which she keeps near, even when bathing or sleeping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aminar Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 My biggest issue with this is that she doesn't use stormlight when taking a Memory. It makes sense if you look at the memory as a step leading to what Illumination actually does. Her memories are beyond anything people can do, in the clarity and precision they show. Especially given the fact she can see Spren with them. That doesnlt make the memories the whole surge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysty Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 Brandon has admitted there is something special with her Memories, but evaded answering the surgebinding question. http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/4273-portland-steelheart-signing/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skaa Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) (Also of note, both her memories and the lashings occur quite frequently with blinking/the closing of eyes involved. I never see much discussion about that. Could it be a brief connection to Shadesmar, like the longer ones with Soulcasting?) I actually discussed this in my "Essences are Roshar's Focus" thread. I believe that each Body Focus can initiate Investiture depending on the abilities of the Surgebinder. The eyes are the Body Focus of Lucentia, and the act of blinking triggers a vision-based Investiture related to Surgebinding, like Szeth indicating the desired direction of Basic Lashing by looking in that direction, and Shallan storing the light that enters her eyes (probably Illumination-based). Edited February 18, 2014 by skaa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts