Using Stormlight without the Nahel Bond

[stratix]

While reading the Dalinar vision from WoR Chapter 4, I realized this line once everybody began fighting the Thunderclast within the vision.

 

Dalinar finished repeating the words. Beyond him, the fight began in earnest, water splashing, rock grinding. Soldiers approached bearing hammers, and unexpectedly, these men now also glowed with Stormlight, though far more faintly.

 

It seems that using Stormlight is not exclusive to those with the Nahel bond.  This passage in WoR shows that the common soldiers were also able to use a technique that allowed them a somewhat stymied flow or stormlight...or the stormlight leaked from them much more quickly.  Just like Szeth.

 

If this is the case, I do no believe Szeth is alone in the Shin society of warriors who are capable of using stormlight.  With this information, I foresee Moash, Sigzil and others to also find a way of using stormlight, albeit with much shorter times(like Szeth) of holding it. 

[hoser]

Excellent catch! You may want to check out this thread to see preexisting speculation.

[Moogle]

It seems that using Stormlight is not exclusive to those with the Nahel bond.

 

What, exactly, makes you think that those men were not regular Surgebinders? I admit it's plausible, and that there's possibly something up, but it seems like the easiest explanation to me.

[Heir of the Void]

I think those men weren't surgebinders at all. We are led to belive, given the vision from when Dalinar 'visits' the author of the in-verse Way of Kings, that suurgebinders are someting rare a special, and being one earns you some mesure of respect, which would be less likly if the Radiants can just whip up a whole comany of them for a somewhat routine investigation.

 

I would instead propose that those men were being affected by a surgebinging of one of the radiants present, one that functions like an 'area buff' in a wargame, that distrubues stromlight to nearby alies. This would make sense as being a/the power of Illuminiation, as if that shard provided the power of litteral 'light stuff up' it would be practiaclly useless and worse, from a literary standpoint, boring, and shooting lasers would see out of character for the surgebingings and rather unlike what Brandon has done in the past.

[Colby Jack]

Or it could be an enhancement provided to them by their armor/weapon.

 

I have my own problems with this theory too. If any plain vanilla person can use stormlight with enough talent and knowledge, then it'll be really unlikely for that ability to die out as it did and become solely attributed to the Knight Radiants and their order. But it's not impossible, so upvote for you!

Edited January 25, 2014 by Colby Jack

[princeofravens]

It could also be that these other soldiers do have a bond with a spren and are simply in training to become knights radiant. Note the scene in WoK where Kaladin says the second ideal. 

 

THE WORDS, a voice said, urgent, as if directly into his mind. In that moment, Kaladin was amazed to realize that he knew them, though they'd never

been told to him.

"I will protect those who cannot protect themselves," he whispered.

The Second Ideal of the Knights Radiant.

 

 

Just a few paragraphs later, 

 

"Something just changed," Moash whispered, hand up. "Something important."

Kaladin raised his spear. The powerful light began to subside, retreating. A more subdued glow began to steam off his body. Radiant, like smoke from an ethereal fire.

 This, at least to me, seems to suggest that the ideals of the knights radiant and their orders weren't something taught they were something that one found for themselves. I would argue that these other soldiers had nahel bonds but hadn't found all of the ideals yet, thus they glowed much more faintly than the full radiant.

 

EDIT: the above quotes are from chapter 67

Edited January 25, 2014 by princeofravens

[stratix]

This is just a theory!  I never meant to imply that "any" average Joe would be able to learn it.  I purely focused in on the fact that these people were not glowing as bright as the Knight.  

 

This led me to believe that it was because they were not able to hold as much stormlight as the KR.  If this were the case, it would seem likely that they do not have the Nahel Bond, as the bond would grant them similar "brightness" as the KR.  

 

To me, it is similar to the difference of Kaladin and Szeth in ability to hold onto stormlight.

 

Thanks for humoring my theory, though it does look like it has been brought up before.

[Moogle]

This led me to believe that it was because they were not able to hold as much stormlight as the KR.  If this were the case, it would seem likely that they do not have the Nahel Bond, as the bond would grant them similar "brightness" as the KR.  

 

To me, it is similar to the difference of Kaladin and Szeth in ability to hold onto stormlight.

 

After Kaladin swears the Second Ideal, his Stormlight starts to work better for him, so it would make more sense that a full Radiant would glow brighter than Radiants-in-training.

Edited January 25, 2014 by Moogle

[vikorr]

*cough* 'it was like a pillar of light. like the sun itself burst from you'....spoken of Kaladin prior to the 2nd Ideal.

 

Edit : the KR only had a calm white light about her.

Edited January 25, 2014 by vikorr

[DocHoliday]

*cough* 'it was like a pillar of light. like the sun itself burst from you'....spoken of Kaladin prior to the 2nd Ideal.

 

Edit : the KR only had a calm white light about her.

I am neither in favor but  nor against any of the ideas posted here.

However of we assume that Storm-light retention increases as  KR swear more Ideals then we assume that less Stormlight is lost.

 A calm white light might be  a description of a much lower level of leaked Stormlight.

 

Anyone care to dig out a description of Szeth while taking in Stormlight? Is he sort bright or a just glowing?

 

Edit: stupid swype...

Edited January 25, 2014 by DocHoliday

[vikorr]

After Kaladin swears the Second Ideal, his Stormlight starts to work better for him, so it would make more sense that a full Radiant would glow brighter than Radiants-in-training.

 

 

However of we assume that Storm-light retention increases as  KR swear more Ideals then we assume that less Stormlight is lost.

 A calm white light might be  a description of a much lower level of leaked Stormlight.

 

 

Hi DocHoliday - you notice that your quote is in direct conflict with Moogles?

 

Personally, there are so many problems with the 'they are surgebinders' theory that it's almost impossible that they are (surgebinders)...unless Brandon doesn't keep track of human nature, and his own writings.

Edited January 25, 2014 by vikorr

[DocHoliday]

Yes, I have a bad habit of arguing against every idea. Not to be a jerk, but if we stumble across the right idea, then we should be able to overcome any hurdles I throw in the way.

[vikorr]

I quite agree.

[Cad]

It's too bad the KR's armor was glowing red, not blue. It would be cool if the leadership attribute of the Windrunners allowed regular men that followed them access to stormlight or even some surgebinding. Bridge 4 would have some of the abilities of a KR through Kaladin. I can just imagine Rock with surgebinding, he'd be a worse prankster than Syl.

[Fifth]

My pet theory is that the Knights Radiant present in that scene simply invested the rest of his squad in some way reduced friction so they could move and fight more effectively in knee deep water... I I expect Kaladin to begin doing something similar with bridge four soon walking around at 25% of your normal weight could be VERY useful on the plains, jumping chasms wearing heavy armor would be a breeze!

[Colby Jack]

Magic, when used in excess, won't be cool. It'll be completely ordinary.

High fantasies like the Stormlight Archive can occasionally get away with it, but I still don't know where I stand here. On one hand, it boggles the mind that there are so many surgebinders in one spot or that one of the ten orders allowed the uninitiated to hunt with the full KR on a dangerous mission. On the other, I feel turned off by the idea that one KR can suddenly create a small army of surgebinders out of common soldiers all by her lonesome self.

 

Well, if either theory is right, I suppose I'll just hold back my final judgement until I get to see how Sanderson handles it. I've already read stories that dealt with necromancers and mind-control so the "I am one, I am legion" idea isn't exactly new, only in this case, it's "I have legion, now I have an even BETTER legion".

Edited January 27, 2014 by Colby Jack

[vikorr]

There are theories that the particular KR used the 'division' surge to divide her access to stormlight up between the group...which would mean that ability is restricted to only two orders of knights.

 

There was also a theory that the final surge is a bonding surge...but that particular knight is likely to be a Dustbringer, whose surges (including Division) are known.

 

So in the event that either theory is correct, it's not a widely held ability.

[Morsk]

This is just a quick idea, but what if she isn't a Radiant at all, but a Herald? 10 Heralds aren't much vs. whole armies of Voidbringers. There weren't always Radiants, and even if there were always Surgebinders (we don't know), Honor wasn't expecting them when he gave the Heralds their powers. If he wanted Heralds to lead armies against Voidbringers, he'd have to give them a power like this.

[Moogle]

This is just a quick idea, but what if she isn't a Radiant at all, but a Herald? 10 Heralds aren't much vs. whole armies of Voidbringers. There weren't always Radiants, and even if there were always Surgebinders (we don't know), Honor wasn't expecting them when he gave the Heralds their powers. If he wanted Heralds to lead armies against Voidbringers, he'd have to give them a power like this.

 

Or the Heralds were powerful enough to match a Mistborn, in which case they were the armies. I seriously doubt soldiers under their command would have required Stormlight, just hammers.

 

I could see Jezrien gravity-waving a huge group of Voidbringers, crushing them beneath their own weight.