chikinllama Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) Hello everyone! I've been lurking around the site for a few years now and have finally worked up the courage to post a theory! I'm not sure whether I should be posting here in the Words of Radiance Discussion, or if this is more appropriate for the general Stormlight Archive discussion...anyway, here it goes: the Parshmen/Parshendi, the betrayal Jasnah mentioned, and the Recreance, with a few speculations thrown in about why Gavilar had to die (I apologize in advance if this theory has already been covered somewhere else, but I couldn't find it all lumped together). I'll cite what I can as I go along... From the new Words of Radiance chapters available, we know that spren can be corrupted. "Once Sja-anat touches a spren, it acts strange." Words of Radiance Ch. 4 Since Odium doesn't want to over-invest himself on Roshar, it seems plausible to me that he would seek to work with or corrupt the entities already present, rather than create new races himself. Enter the Parshendi. Since their sense of identity is essentially bound to whether or not they are bonded to a spren, it makes sense that Odium's corruption of spren could cause devastating changes when one of these bonded to a Parshendi - especially if it happened en mass. I believe this was discussed here. My theory stems from a speculation about how Odium actually corrupts spren. From Syl's interactions with Kaladin during the course of Way of Kings, we see her develop a personality the more time she spends with him: "I'm...taking something from you. And giving something in return. It's the way it used to work...I'm willing to stop it...but I would go back to being as I was before...never remembering anything for longer than a few minutes. If we end it, I lose that." Way of Kings Ch. 57 Throughout their interactions, Kaladin remarks several times about how she is becoming more human. I speculate that when a spren binds to a surgebinder and becomes more human, they open themselves to Odium's influence and can be corrupted. If this is the case, it would explain why Darkness and co. believe that a return of the Radiants would bring back the desolation (more Radiants makes more corrupt spren makes more infected Parshendi, potentially becoming voidbringers). Therefore, I further speculate that in order to break the cycle of Desolations, the original Radiants simultaneously broke their ties to their bonded spren. Unfortunately, this caused devastating consequences for the spren society, since many of the spren would suddenly have lost their identities/memories/purpose: "If we end it, I lose that." Way of Kings Ch. 57 Therefore, the Recreance would be the betrayal that Jasnah tells Shallan about. This extra part is really wild speculation: This could also explain the existence of Parshmen (they gave up bonding to any spren to prevent getting a corrupt one), and maybe even why Gavilar had to die: if (big if) he planned to bring back the Radiants (maybe they were the "dark gods" Eshonai mentions), then that would doom the Parshendi to corruption. This is pretty much just bits and pieces stuck together with wild speculation glue (and that last part is all wild speculation), so feel free to comment/tear it apart! Also, I'm not quite sure how to format quotes or add spoiler tags (or even if this section uses spoiler tags). Please let me know so I can fix it! Edited January 16, 2014 by chikinllama 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadewolf Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Hmmn I don't know if I believe that bonding is what opens up a spren to corruption, but there may be something to the parshmen shutting themselves off to bonding, to prevent being bonded with a corrupt spren. OMG, Galivar getting killed by the Parshendi for trying to revive the Knights Radiant. We already know that Darkness seems to believe that the resurgence of surge binding could lead to another desolation, what if the Parshendi had similar beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natans Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Be welcomed take this upvote for breaking the shell =) I like your theory because you thinked along what i believe and proposed in this topics http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/4283-theory-spoillers-with-capital-s-the-secret-of-gavilar-murder-the-black-gem/ http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/4890-kind-unificated-voidbringer-theory-spoiler/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 [*spoiler*]Remove the stars, and this becomes forbidden knowledge.[*/spoiler*] 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chikinllama Posted January 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Hmmn I don't know if I believe that bonding is what opens up a spren to corruption, but there may be something to the parshmen shutting themselves off to bonding, to prevent being bonded with a corrupt spren. OMG, Galivar getting killed by the Parshendi for trying to revive the Knights Radiant. We already know that Darkness seems to believe that the resurgence of surge binding could lead to another desolation, what if the Parshendi had similar beliefs. Yeah my thoughts on bonding=opens to corruption is totally baseless. Maybe instead, the Parshendi gave up their spren to become Parshmen and the Radiants gave up their spren for the same reasons - to escape corrupt spren... Be welcomed take this upvote for breaking the shell =) I like your theory because you thinked along what i believe and proposed in this topics http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/4283-theory-spoillers-with-capital-s-the-secret-of-gavilar-murder-the-black-gem/ http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/4890-kind-unificated-voidbringer-theory-spoiler/ Reading those posts are what got me thinking about this! [*spoiler*]Remove the stars, and this becomes forbidden knowledge. [*/spoiler*] Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HydrogenAlpha Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 What if Darkness is right and just wants to save Roshar and the visions Dalinar recieves are actually send by Odium instead of Honor .. dum dum dum plottwist.Kidding aside, i like your theory and that you put spoiler-warnings in ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macen Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 chikinllama, I'll admit I'm impressed. I hadn't thought of anything along these lines, but I like it a lot. It ties together a lot of things that haven't been tied together yet (pardon me if someone has tied similar things and I just haven't read it yet).The only part I have a hard time with is that the bond opens them to corruption. I would think its more that they can then bond with a corrupt spren... Could it be that the parshendi (or some affiliated group) used the black stone to sever the bond with the spren to the KR (out of belief that if all bonds were severed the desolations would stop)? That could be why Gavilar didn't want the parshendi to have it (to cut off the bond again). It might also explain why the KR gave up their shards (their bonds had been severed).Side note, is there a threat somewhere discussing why it has been so long since the last desolation? It seemed to me in every previous desolation that Dalinar has seen they knew what to expect. This time around people almost believe desolations are stories used to scare children.*Note* sorry for the ranting - I was typing and more ideas just kept coming to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Side note, is there a threat somewhere discussing why it has been so long since the last desolation? It seemed to me in every previous desolation that Dalinar has seen they knew what to expect. This time around people almost believe desolations are stories used to scare children. There's no thread I know of, but given the dustjacket for Way of Kings, one suspects that Odium purposefully waited a long time so that men would weaken. There's also the fact that the Recreance happened - it may be that if there are no Radiants, there is no Desolation, hence explaining Darkness' actions. Finally, it's quite possible that previous Desolations did take this long to come around, but the Radiants were immortal/long-lived enough/organized enough to pass down information relating to it, and with no Radiants and the Sunmaker and Vorin priesthood changing up records, things sort of fell to pieces. Hard to say. I'm sure WoR will have much more information on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awesomeness Summoned Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 (edited) This topic is closely related to a theory I've had lately thinking about Darkness' motivations. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the knights radiant were a recent creation in the cycle of desolations. Before there were just the heralds and general surgebinders. Judging by the fact that 9/10 heralds survived the last desolation and we assume dalinar's visions are from honor (and not sanderson slight of hand), then it seems like the KR were a positive force in the previous desolation. So why did darkness (if he is actually a herald) actually turn on the KR and start hunting them down to prevent the desolation? He hasn't gone after Szeth whom you'd think would be at the top of his list and the only difference with Szeth is that he doesn't have the nahel bond. I posit that the relationship between the KR and their spren in the last desolation gave them a better understanding of the bonding process. They realized the desolations came because of the parshendi's bonding of voidspren and creating voidbringers. They figured out how to sever that connection (the betrayal some of the spren speak of?) and to prevent future desolations they cut off the parshendi's ability to bond creating parshmen and part of that process required them to cut their own bonds (the recreance). Darkness is hunting people with the nahel bond to either prevent the knowledge of bonding from returning, or because too many people bonding spren would somehow make it possible again for parshmen to bond voidspren Edited January 20, 2014 by Awesomeness summoned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummi Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Finally, it's quite possible that previous Desolations did take this long to come around, but the Radiants were immortal/long-lived enough/organized enough to pass down information relating to it, and with no Radiants and the Sunmaker and Vorin priesthood changing up records, things sort of fell to pieces. Hard to say. I'm sure WoR will have much more information on this. I Think the doselations happened every 200 years or somethink but Odium realised if he left humans alone for some time ( he is immortal so 1000 years for him is like 1 year to us ) they will destory themselves and that is exactly what is happening and happened , raddians disbanded, princes united only in name , religion and history corrupted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikorr Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 (edited) Problems I see with the original posts include wyndle's people being able to cross over, Jasnah doesn't remember her spren being particularly dumb - just quiet. The other issue (because this is related to the betrayal, and theories on why Darkness hunts surgebinders) is that the spren are binding with humans again in a fight for survival...why are sprens lives threatened? (their lives aren't threatened by human bonding, otherwise they wouldn't do it) It could be that, being living ideas, they realise all of humanity is about to be threatened - meaning if all the humans diedt, then many spren would die... ...but if the parshendi need (intelligent?) spren to become voidspren to initiate a desolation, then wouldn't the (intelligent?) spren just stay away and it could never happen...yet the everstorm is coming anyway. If it's coming anyway - how then are the intelligent spren bound to surgebinders the cause of desolations? Edited January 20, 2014 by vikorr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dros Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 I imagine Darkness is going after a symptom thinking it's the cause. After all, the Heralds are not infallible and don't they show up after a Desolation is inevitable. Or, maybe Darkness is a little nuts, with a dash of respect for the law to keep you on your toes. It looked like in Dalinar's vision the corrupted spren were doing just fine animating stone rather than bonding with a mortal. And vikorr makes a good point, why would any intelligent spren risk a Desolation to bond with humans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkness Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Man, it would be cool to see Darkness take on Szeth though! Szeth seems overpowered, but Darkness is probably very familiar with his abilities, and has a few tricks of his own! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awesomeness Summoned Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Unfortunately, he'd probably just pull out his Larkin and it would all be over. He doesn't seem to be too keen on theatrics. An actual fight with those two would be entertaining, though, if only to see what darkness can really do. Seems like all he's done so far was chase lift really fast which isn't all that impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.S.A.M.K.M Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 THe parshman in Kaladin's crew, will be changed/ Either he gets turn in to a monster, a secret agent of the enemy or even an indiviual himself, who would be eager to help defend his friend of bridge nine. If he can become a proper person, then there is hope that kaladin can help the others change. that could help to create a peace. We know the parshendi are looking for blackthorn, but the thing is they only know what his shard plate and sword looks like, so a good chance that the bright lord with his old sword will be attacked by them next time he goes to battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts