Wild speculation: Death Rattles are Messages from Spren

[hoser]

This was inspired by a similar thread by Bloodfalcon in the non-spoiler forum, so credit him with some of the value (if any) of this post.  Any failings of this post, on the other hand, belong to me exclusively. 

 

Edit: Aand there are failings ... As Aether pointed out below, the timelines do not match.  Gavilar was assassinated 5 years and 8 months before the main events of tWoK.  At the end of tWoKTaravangian says the death rattles started 7 years earlier when Gavilar investigated the Shattered Plains for the first time.  So there must have been a year between when he first investigated the plains and his assassination.  Whatever Gavilar did the day of his assassination could not have triggered the death rattles because they started a year earlier.

 

Gavilar destroyed a barrier that had been in place between spren and men, the cognitive realm and the physical.  With the barrier down, the spren are trying to communicate with humanity by giving dying people ideas that they then speak. 

 

The reasoning follows:

• Gavilar told the Parshendi he was going to do something.  It scared them so much they had him killed. 
• Gavilar claims to have already done something to Szeth.
• Mr. T claims the death rattles started at about the same time: "We do not know why some speak when others do not," Taravangian said. "But the dying see something. It began seven years ago, about the time when King Gavilar was investigating the Shattered Plains for the first time."
• People seem to be bonding spren pretty frequently.  Jasnah says: "The old ways are returning, and I don’t see it as a hopeful sign. It’s an act of self-preservation. The spren sense impending danger, and so they return to us."
• Jasnah had a forceful encounter with her spren the same night Gavilar was assassinated.
• The Radiants abandoned their weapons and their role along with presumably their oaths and Nahel bonds
• Darkness claims Surgebinding will bring on a desolation

This leads to the prefatory theory:  Gavilar destroyed a barrier that had been in place between spren and men, the cognitive realm and the physical. 

 

But why do the dying people see things that seem significant in the death rattles?

• Jasnah suggests the spren sense the coming desolation and want to help avert/survive/prepare for it. 
• The spren are choosing important thoughts and presenting them to the dying to be expressed.

But how does that work?

I haven't a clue.  But hopefully this will help inspire an idea that replaces or enhances it.

 

Enjoy!

Edited January 11, 2014 by hoser

[Aether]

I like this idea, but I think the Death Rattles pre-dates Gavilar's assassination (or Tearim's? ) by a bit. They are said to have started around the time when Gavilar was first exploring the Shattered Plains, which would presumably have been some time before the signing of the treaty with the Parshendi.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Aether

[Mileswasbestcharacter]

There could be something to finding the parshendi themselves that started the rattles. The parshendi may have greater investiture from odium and so once they were discovered odium began the process for bringing about the next desolation and the spren reacted. ALSO this is all wild speculation.

However I believe the death rattles may be something of cultivation as she has "a better knack" (super paraphrasing) for divining the future than honor, tanavast, does.

[EvilKetchupCow]

FEAR

I wish to sleep. I know now why you do what you do, and I hate you for it. I will not speak of the truths I see.
-Kakashah 1173, 142 seconds pre-death. A Shin sailor, left behind by his crew, reportedly for bringin them ill luck. Sample largely useless.

 

I think this points to a more singular entity then spreen personally.

[Sart]

FEAR

I wish to sleep. I know now why you do what you do, and I hate you for it. I will not speak of the truths I see.

-Kakashah 1173, 142 seconds pre-death. A Shin sailor, left behind by his crew, reportedly for bringin them ill luck. Sample largely useless.

 

I think this points to a more singular entity then spreen personally.

 

Or that could be the sailor yelling at the spren giving him a message. Furthermore, we already know of the existence of death spren, who could be the ones giving the messages. This theory is interesting, but as of right now, there isn't any way to prove or disprove it.

[Bloodfalcon]

Speaking of the timeline: where was Kaladin at the point in the story when the deathrattles started? He and Lirin were probably around dying people. I think we would have seen it in the flashbacks, but it would be interesting if he is connected to that plot line by the deathrattles he might have heard. I know the popular theory is that Lirin is going to end up doing some of this work, but perhaps some of those were recorded while Kaladin was still there? It doesn't feel like there has been enough time elapsed in Kal's life to date back farther than Gavilar's Parshendii studies. 

[The Rooster]

Speaking of the timeline: where was Kaladin at the point in the story when the deathrattles started? He and Lirin were probably around dying people. I think we would have seen it in the flashbacks, but it would be interesting if he is connected to that plot line by the deathrattles he might have heard. I know the popular theory is that Lirin is going to end up doing some of this work, but perhaps some of those were recorded while Kaladin was still there? It doesn't feel like there has been enough time elapsed in Kal's life to date back farther than Gavilar's Parshendii studies. 

I think they started around the time of Cenn's death.  He certainly didn't seem familiar with the phenomena when that happened. 

[hoser]

Cenn died 5 years after Gavilar, so the rattles started about 6 years before Cenn's death.  Kaladin volunteered 5 years before tWoK non-flashback events, so the death rattles started a year before that.  How long before killing Gavilar did Szeth do what he was made Truthless for?  Do we have any other triggers synchronous with the death rattles starting?

[Bloodfalcon]

Cenn died 5 years after Gavilar, so the rattles started about 6 years before Cenn's death.  Kaladin volunteered 5 years before tWoK non-flashback events, so the death rattles started a year before that.  How long before killing Gavilar did Szeth do what he was made Truthless for?  Do we have any other triggers synchronous with the death rattles starting?

That's what I thought. You would think Kaladin would have heard a good few of them. I don't know of any other major events that happened around one year before Gavilar's death, but here are a couple theories:

- Around the time that the Parshendii were discovered by Gavilar was actually around the time that they "resurfaced" or something, and that is the cause of the death rattles.

- That one year was the amount of time that Gavilar started his Way of Kings investigations - maybe because he too was seeing the visions around then. 

- It looks like that was also around the time that Jasnah started seeing her oil shadow - perhaps the same time Kaladin started not seeing signs of Syl (hah, he seems pretty oblivious of some of them, though there are signs particularly in Cenn's POV and I think also when he is fighting those other kids that work the fields). Perhaps that is around the same time the bondable spren started coming back, which I think would support a similar Spren-cause-death rattles theory, no?

 

[Aether]

Perhaps that is around the same time the bondable spren started coming back, which I think would support a similar Spren-cause-death rattles theory, no?

Their correlation is noteworthy, but I think it more likely that they are both set off by the same thing rather than having the same origin. I still do not see why and how Spren would be the cause of the Death *sigh* Rattles. (I prefer Death Chants, therefore the sigh).

[Swimmingly]

Or that could be the sailor yelling at the spren giving him a message. Furthermore, we already know of the existence of death spren, who could be the ones giving the messages. This theory is interesting, but as of right now, there isn't any way to prove or disprove it.

Or possibly at the people killing him with blood loss, because the knowledge they're looking for is a sacred part of Shin culture maybe - or his knowledge of it was what convinced his crew to call him "bad luck"

[Bloodfalcon]

Their correlation is noteworthy, but I think it more likely that they are both set off by the same thing rather than having the same origin. I still do not see why and how Spren would be the cause of the Death *sigh* Rattles. (I prefer Death Chants, therefore the sigh).

Haha, I cringe just a bit when I write it too. And I agree it is probably the same cause, but I can't think of an event that happens around then that would cause those things. All of those occurring around the same time may be something though. 

[Aether]

Haha, I cringe just a bit when I write it too. And I agree it is probably the same cause, but I can't think of an event that happens around then that would cause those things. All of those occurring around the same time may be something though. 

Something changed at the advent of the Alethi exploration of the Shattered Plains, though we do not yet know what. And by the way, do we know for how long the Parshendi had existed by that point? I didn't get the impression from Eshonai's Interlude that they had been around for that long. Might their Sprenbinding have been the first (visible) effect of the same cause?

[flinn]

Speaking of the timeline: where was Kaladin at the point in the story when the deathrattles started? He and Lirin were probably around dying people. I think we would have seen it in the flashbacks, but it would be interesting if he is connected to that plot line by the deathrattles he might have heard. I know the popular theory is that Lirin is going to end up doing some of this work, but perhaps some of those were recorded while Kaladin was still there? It doesn't feel like there has been enough time elapsed in Kal's life to date back farther than Gavilar's Parshendii studies. 

7 1/2 years earlier.. Kaladin flash-back was the first time he was in a fight and used a quarterstaff...

 

 .. Something changed in that moment. Kal felt an energy as he held the weapon, an excitement that washed away his pain.....But the length of wood felt 'right' in his fingers. He was amazed at how wonderful the moment felt....

 

 Ends with Brightlord Wistiow dead and Kal's father with a goblet full of spheres.

[Daishi5]

Do we know of anything else that was going on while Gavilar was exploring the shattered plains?  It says the rattles started when Gavilar was exploring the plains, but we are all making a jump to the conclusion that Gavilar started everything.  

 

Maybe that was around the same time as Szeth becoming truthless, or perhaps something else we might know about?

[Swimmingly]

7 1/2 years earlier.. Kaladin flash-back was the first time he was in a fight and used a quarterstaff...

 

 .. Something changed in that moment. Kal felt an energy as he held the weapon, an excitement that washed away his pain.....But the length of wood felt 'right' in his fingers. He was amazed at how wonderful the moment felt....

 

 Ends with Brightlord Wistiow dead and Kal's father with a goblet full of spheres.

Here's some wild speculation: Wistiow let out an incredibly important death rattle... one to do with inheritance. It either ambiguouly accused someone of stealing something "out of my reach" or something similar, or ambiguously encouraged the same to take up that inheritance. However, it made it clear it wasn't talking about the goblet of spheres, even though Lirin convinced himself of it mostly. But he still felt like he stole them.

[hoser]

In another context, spirit may have found a useful quote.

Do we know of anything else that was going on while Gavilar was exploring the shattered plains?  It says the rattles started when Gavilar was exploring the plains, but we are all making a jump to the conclusion that Gavilar started everything.  

 

Maybe that was around the same time as Szeth becoming truthless, or perhaps something else we might know about?

consider the following:

Szeth looked up. “Kurp” meant child in the local Bav dialect. Szeth was accustomed to such

pejorative labels. Though he was in his thirty-fifth year—and his seventh year since being named

Truthless—...

 

page 108 chaper I-3 the Glory Ignorance

Whatever triggered Szeth's actions and whatever he did to become truthless may indeed be relevant to the death rattles starting.   It was at least close to synchronous.