Skyeels

[Moogle]

Skyeels. I originally thought they were magical, perhaps having the spren helping them out to fly.

 

Turns out nope, we've got flying snakes here on Earth that can accomplish much the same.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vhgC_g1cmU

 

According to this article, (sorry, it's the Daily Mail)

 

 

Socha said: The whole snake itself is just one long wing. 'That wing is constantly reconfiguring, it's constantly reforming and contorting.'

The unusual movement creates an aerodynamic effect that allows them to travel from the top of 200 foot high trees to almost 800 feet away.

...

During a technique not yet understood, Socha and his team discovered some of the snakes can actually turn in air.  After having taken a leap to get become airborne they were able to drop for a while to pick up speed before starting the ‘air-slithering’ movement that keeps them airborne.

...

Socha said: 'Hypothetically, this means that if the snake continued on like this, it would eventually be moving upward in the air  quite an impressive feat for a snake’

 

Roshar's gravity is 7/10ths that of Earth, which would let things fly much more easily.

 

Skyeels might have some magic helping them (they have 'luckspren'), as well as gas pockets, but still. Props to Brandon for making something realistic that I initially didn't think was possible.

 

(Also, the inner 'Alien' mouth skyeels have is also an Earth thing: it's based on the moray eel.)

 

Edit: InkThinker also has posted some of Brandon's notes (which I just found here):

 

 

These are just what they sound like: flying moray eels. I imagine them looking much like a moray eel, with a few changes. The moray has a fin pattern that runs along its top and bottom. The skyeel has a fin pattern on the sides as well, though this is more diaphanous and a little longer, forming a kind of flowing fin not unlike those of a butterfly koi--only running along both sides of the eel almost all the way from head to tale. They'd waft in the air as it undulates. Underneath the side fins are small pockets of gas which are part of what keeps the eel in the air.

Skyeels are often accompanied by tiny blue spren in the shape of darting tiny, arrowhead like fish. (Think of how a shark or whale often has tinier fish darting around it, swimming in the same direction like an entourage.) One of the pictures should show this, though the others need not. It is thought the spren help it fly somehow.

The skyeel will find prey from above--either a fish in the ocean or a rodent or small crab on the ground. It will pounce downward in a sharp dive, releasing the gas from its pockets and grabbing the crab or rodent in a kind of rolling pounce across the ground. It will curl up and eat its prey, then will wiggle off to a hole or hollow somewhere to rebuild its gas pockets (which can take an hour or two to fill back up.)

Feel free to modify the skyeel face, skin patterns, and fin patterns to make the creature 'our own' rather than just a flying moray. I've attached the pictures of skyeels and butterfly koi I used for reference when imagining the creature.

I imagine this page having a focus image of the skyeel (it wouldn't have to be bigger than the others, really, but one majestic picture of one with the tiny arrowhead-fish spren darting around it.) Then a closeup of the face, and on the bottom half of the page, an image of the skyeel seeing prey, darting downward, and grabbing it (much like the swooping hawk.)

Edited December 9, 2013 by Moogle

[Bloodfalcon]

That is a cool explanation. I think it'll be like a half and half relationship between the causes of flight there. Spren and gliding on low G.

[Aether]

We don't really know if the Spren helps it to fly, though - it is only thought to somehow influence its flying mechanism. The nature of Spren is very badly understood by contemporary Rosharans, and Luckspren might very well turn out to have nothing to do with it at all. Does Rotspren cause rot? Does Flamespren cause flames? Or are they only attracted to the processes they are associated with?

[Bloodfalcon]

All I know is that eels don't naturally fly as I understand it. Gliding is one thing, but this seems to be something on a more supernatural level. Brandon tries to stay true to his world being based on scientific explanations + magic where it applies. Kaladin doesn't survive 4 story falls without spren either, but there is one there. It could be something similar where the glidy-ness of the creature attract spren that help it further. Dunno. 

[Aether]

I was not saying that there isn't a magical side to it, but that the Spren itself might not be part of it. Though I do remember now that we do have a WoB on Spren interacting with living beings outside of Nahel and Parshendi bonds, as it is through the combination of low gravity and their bond to a certain type of Spren that Greatshells are allowed to grow so big.

 

Though, in the case of Skyeels, I do not think magic is needed, According to the artist, the combination of wing-like ins, low Rosharan gravity, light-weight skeleton and lighter-than-air gas sacks might combined be able to make it fly without additional magical help.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Aether

[Levian]

I don't remember anything about a Spren being involved with the Skyeels, but if you go to the beginning of chapter 3, you'll find a few pictures of Skyeels drawn by Shallan with some notations. One of them is her wondering how they fly, and noting that she sees a "pouch under each wind that deflates as it dives".

 

I think that it just gathers air in these pouches, then when diving expels the air to rise up again, then continues to glide for a time.

 

Strangely enough in my head I imagine it similar to how Mario flies in Super Mario World when he uses the cape to fly, and raises in the air after diving a short distance. 

[Bloodfalcon]

Lighter than air gas sacks would explain it pretty well. If that is the case, it's a real mystery. There is obviously a cause and effect with those pouches then, but what fuels the pouches and stuff like that is still unconfirmed. I find myself naturally hoping for the spren idea as it links the magic to the world a little more, which is one of my favorite things about the world to begin with.

[Aether]

Actually, the artist explains it:

 

"the skyeel separates lighter-than-air gases from its food though some internal process, stores them in sacks beneath it's fins"

It will take just about a few hours to fill them up after having deflated them:

 

The skyeel will find prey from above--either a fish in the ocean or a rodent or small crab on the ground. It will pounce downward in a sharp dive, releasing the gas from its pockets and grabbing the crab or rodent in a kind of rolling pounce across the ground. It will curl up and eat its prey, then will wiggle off to a hole or hollow somewhere to rebuild its gas pockets (which can take an hour or two to fill back up.)

[Bloodfalcon]

Actually, the artist explains it:

It will take just about a few hours to fill them up after having deflated them:

This is a description that Brandon gave to an artist, so Brandon is the one explaining it, and the explanation does not prove or disprove a magical element to the creature. It is based on a physical exchange, but not necessarily exclusive in dependence.  Second, the page in question was designed as Shallan's assessment of the Skyeel. So all of that explanation is in character as well, which should indicate that it is open to further explanation as the character learns more or the reader learns more. 

[Aether]

This is a description that Brandon gave to an artist, so Brandon is the one explaining it, and the explanation does not prove or disprove a magical element to the creature. It is based on a physical exchange, but not necessarily exclusive in dependence.  Second, the page in question was designed as Shallan's assessment of the Skyeel. So all of that explanation is in character as well, which should indicate that it is open to further explanation as the character learns more or the reader learns more. 

I am merely saying that there is a suggested explanation with would cover the basic mechanics, not that it is canon.

[king of nowhere]

intersting.

those gases, to be ligther than air, and still be gases under standard conditions, need be hydrogen or helium. and they are not present naturally in the atmosphere. they are so light that the earth's gravity cannot maintain them, so they would not be in roshar's atmosphere either, except for trace amounts.

That means the skyheel has means to biologically synthesise hydrogen, possibly as part of the digesting system.

 

Now I'm picturing massive domes filled with skyheels used for the production of clean fuel....

[Moogle]

That means the skyheel has means to biologically synthesise hydrogen, possibly as part of the digesting system.

 

Actually, I suspect they are more likely to synthesize methane. That has more of a biological basis from Earth. They might also just be heating up gas in their pockets, like little air balloons, though I am not sure this would provide enough lift. Here's a list of potential gases from Wikipedia.

 

It could be that the spren make the skyeel lighter, or perhaps the spren themselves provide the gas. That would be interesting.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Moogle

[Aether]

That means the skyheel has means to biologically synthesise hydrogen, possibly as part of the digesting system.

Actually, I suspect they are more likely to synthesize methane.

Someone should try to set a Skyeel aflame. Hilarities would ensue.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Aether

[king of nowhere]

Actually, I suspect they are more likely to synthesize methane. That has more of a biological basis from Earth. They might also just be heating up gas in their pockets, like little air balloons, though I am not sure this would provide enough lift. Here's a list of potential gases from Wikipedia.

 

It could be that the spren make the skyeel lighter, or perhaps the spren themselves provide the gas. That would be interesting.

right, i forgot about methane and ammonia. methane is more likely, as it is already a biological byproduct, and is highly inert except when ignited. ammonia also could be, but it is toxic and more easily absorbed by the body, so less likely.

Both are usable as fuels anyway, so my clean energy project stands

 

Now I'm wondering something else. What if the skyheel fails to catch the prey? I doubt they would be stuck on the ground, or their lifespan would be very very short. So they likely have other mechanisms to refill with gas that do not depend on having had a meal in the last few hours

[Moogle]

Now I'm wondering something else. What if the skyheel fails to catch the prey? I doubt they would be stuck on the ground, or their lifespan would be very very short. So they likely have other mechanisms to refill with gas that do not depend on having had a meal in the last few hours

 

It's possible. Maybe they do make hydrogen by splitting water molecules. Energy intensive, but there are the spren...

[Aether]

Now I'm wondering something else. What if the skyheel fails to catch the prey? I doubt they would be stuck on the ground, or their lifespan would be very very short. So they likely have other mechanisms to refill with gas that do not depend on having had a meal in the last few hours

Assuming the artists explanation is correct, it does seem like one to two hours is a bit too short to digest the food and extract/synthesize the lighter-than-air gases, so I'd assume that the eel can store nutrients from which it can extract/synthesize the gases at a later time.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Aether

[Bloodfalcon]

It's possible. Maybe they do make hydrogen by splitting water molecules. Energy intensive, but there are the spren...

Theory: Skyeels are the Skybreakers, Order 3 of Knights Radiant. They use the Division surge to split molecules. Not WoB yet, but I'm sure it won't be long.

 

Edited December 9, 2013 by Bloodfalcon

[king of nowhere]

It's possible. Maybe they do make hydrogen by splitting water molecules. Energy intensive, but there are the spren...

chemically, it would be more energy-effective to get it from dehydrogenation of fatty acids.

Not sure what a good biochemical pathway to get methane would be, but it would probably involve fatty acids too

[Shardlet]

Not sure what a good biochemical pathway to get methane would be, but it would probably involve fatty acids too

 

Beans! Digesting beans makes much methane. 

[Bloodfalcon]

Beans! Digesting beans makes much methane. 

I bet Shallan just took a wild guess at what they eat. They probably do swoop in and wrap up a full bean vine. 

[Shardlet]

Wyndle better watch out.

[Gamma Fiend]

I don't think there's any sort of super magical influences going on for Skyeels. Yeah, they're a result of a magical world but I don't think they use any sort of magic themselves to fly. Sounds like it's all pretty straight forward on how they move and fly. Sanderson has had a surprising amount of insight into the unique ecosystem of Roshar. He has followed a lot of natural Biological rules with appropriate tweaks from magical influence.

I'm actually surprised I've never seen too much discussion of this article on this board...


http://www.tor.com/blogs/2013/07/the-ecology-of-roshar-continued-quest-for-blood (I don't know how to do the cool link edit into text thing. Been a while since I've used anything other than 'spoiler' tags)

[Jit]

Maybe the lighter gravity and thicker air in Roshar may help the skyeel and the theory stated here about the gases helping the Skyeel to float it may move like a eel in water.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Jit

[Aether]

http://www.tor.com/blogs/2013/07/the-ecology-of-roshar-continued-quest-for-blood (I don't know how to do the cool link edit into text thing. Been a while since I've used anything other than 'spoiler' tags)

Right next to the "insert/remove numbered list" button, there is a "link" button. Mark the word(s) you want to link to a website, and then press the link button.

 

It should look like this: "take a look at this!"

[Shardbearer]

I don't think there's any sort of super magical influences going on for Skyeels. Yeah, they're a result of a magical world but I don't think they use any sort of magic themselves to fly. Sounds like it's all pretty straight forward on how they move and fly. Sanderson has had a surprising amount of insight into the unique ecosystem of Roshar. He has followed a lot of natural Biological rules with appropriate tweaks from magical influence.

I'm actually surprised I've never seen too much discussion of this article on this board...

http://www.tor.com/blogs/2013/07/the-ecology-of-roshar-continued-quest-for-blood (I don't know how to do the cool link edit into text thing. Been a while since I've used anything other than 'spoiler' tags)

This is one of the three "Sanderson's Laws of Magic". He uses these laws when creating his magic systems and also teaches them in his writing class. The third law is that you must consider how magic will impact your world.