Light eyes inheritance; also the Thrill

[Bramble Thorn]

from http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/4646-moash-a-lighteyes-son-theory/
 

Let's play this through:
Since we don't know any better, we have to assume earth-human genetics.

 
 
I think we DO know better. Specifically (most Alethi weilded) shardblades make lighteyes out of their bearers and immediate progeny from then on after acquiring the shard blade. More on that later.

 

From a WoB, we also know that shenanigans from some sort of investiture or magic system, our universes physics apply. While this does not assure Alethi genetics are identical to ours, it does mean that any genetic rules of trait inheritance are ones that a (theoretical all-knowing and with proper equipment) genetic engineer would be able to reproduce here.

 

That is, I assume base Alethi inheritance follow rules, and those rules are deducible.in world. I think this would by obfuscated by the shardblades. Also, and this is a total guess, but Historically lighteyed people were rare, and the swords did not work the way they do now. At least one of the Heralds has brown eyes...

 

===

 

What I am saying is the "light eyes phenomenon" may work mostly like they think it does because when this iteration of humanity was created, there is no reason it was necessarily created with the genes for blue/green/yellow/purple/ to begin with. So they would be very rare because they would only originally occur from world hoppers with those genes, mutants, or some other deliberate or freak event.

 

When Kaladin said if he took the shard blade he would become Lighteyes, and his children would be born Lighteyes, there was no qualification concerning who the mother was. I think darkeyes + darkeyes w/shardblade + "bow chicka wow wow" = lighteyes

 

I think there are hints to this in the book, namely where Kaladin was light eyes while inhaling stormlight. And Jasnah's statement that the old texts said voidbringers could hold stormlight perfectly. Also there seems to be a "surge type zero" because instead of spending stormlight to power one of the ten surges, it can be spent to enhance already extant abilities, like your ability to heal, or your endurance, and probably more. If fact, it may be a general power source. 

 

Also WoB statements that Odium was invested much more heavily in Roshar now than before, and another WoB that Kaladin was now immune to the Thrill.

 

My theory is that as part of that investiture, since the Recreance all Children born to Shardbearers have some small amount of Investment from Odium. Like all Humans on Scadrial have a small minuscule amount of Preservation And Ruin. This allows them to hold enough stormlight to color their eyes, and power the Thrill in battle. 

 

This could also explain why Odium would do to the trouble of destroying the world after he won, like Dalinar saw in his visions. I mean he did not destroy the world of Elantris. But he was never heavily invested there. Brandon did say it would be difficult to reclaim that investiture...

 

I do not know if Odium needs the presence of Corrupted Shardeblades to invest in this theory, or if he could invest almost anyone, but chooses this path to maximize class divisions, and disdain for the darkeyes, and between dahn and nahn. I mean it takes less effort to corrupt the ruling class, and have them be asshats to everyone else, than to corrupt the entire world.

 

I think many more more people over the millennium have had the Tanavast info dump than Dalinar and the nameless darkeyes, but Odium set them up to fail, what with the "foretelling is a voidbinding art" and most of the ruling class ineligible to receive the visions due to being brought up to respect and emulate dishonorable behavior.

 

Fair warning, It has been some time since I read the book, and could be hallucinating my references. Sorry.

[Claincy]

Welcome to the forums Bramble Thorn!

 

You make a good point with the genetic inheritance of the lighteyes from the shardblades.

 

Yes Odium has actually invested his power into Roshar, I don;t know if it is confirmed but it is at least a common theory that destroying everything would make it easier for him to extract himself again. A note though, Odium hasn't really won yet, sure he killed Honor but I'm pretty certain he won't feel he has won at least til Cultivation was splintered as well.

 

As for others having received the visions in the past. Entirely possible, maybe even likely though I don't think we have solid evidence either way.

[Aether]

As for others having received the visions in the past. Entirely possible, maybe even likely though I don't think we have solid evidence either way.

 

Actually, I've long thought that Dalinar couldn't have been the only one - just the latest one. I don't know how long this has been going on and how many others might have had visions, but at least one other has:

 

“That chanting, that singing, those rasping voices.”

Kaktach 1173, 16 seconds pre-death. A middle-aged potter. Reported seeing strange dreams during Highstorms during the last two years.

- Epigraph for chapter 66 of the Way of Kings (my bold lettering).

Edited December 6, 2013 by Aether

[Claincy]

Cool. I had forgotten about that quote. It does make more sense for others to have gotten the visions as well.

[Natans]

I suspect that Gavilar maybe received the visions too, or some other kind of magic inspiration that would explain his change of personality.

 

Another thing, anyone noticed that many characters that had contact with The Way of Kings kind changed.

 

Dalinar after begin reading and believing in the books received "visions".

 

Kaladin after learn the 1º e 2º ideals(associated with his bond) basically gained superhuman power.

 

Gavilar discovered something that the parshendi feared would change the wolrd, (and he knew about the ideal - The most important words that a man can say -).

 

The book is the key to power of old and I think that the visions maybe could be related with it.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Natans

[The Count]

Well spotted Aether. Just goes to show that you can read a book multiple times and still miss stuff like this.

 

I too have always thought that others must have seen the visions in the past.

 

I subscribe to the theory that the Hierocracy tried to seize power on the back of visions to 'Unite them'.

[Aether]

I subscribe to the theory that the Hierocracy tried to seize power on the back of visions to 'Unite them'.

That thought has crossed my mind, but through what we hear of that time from the Shallan chapters, it doesn't sound like that might have been the case. From what I understood, it seemed like it was a fabrication and that they pretty much said so in letters they sent between members of the Vorin clergy.

 

Also, note the date on the Death Chant cited above. It she died in the same year as the Battle of Tower (the current year is 1173), so she must have had the visions around the same time that Dalinar did (she seem to have started at least a year earlier though). It still might be a rather recent happening. Personally, I think whatever triggered these visions must be at least indirectly related to what started the Death Chants and the return of Nahel Spren.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Aether

[The Count]

Agreed, all the significant instances of 'magical powers' seem to have started recently - around the time Gavilar started exploring the Shattered Plains.

 

It certainly could be that the visions are likewise a recent phenomenon.

[Cortez]

It was claimed that the visions were fabrications by the factions that destroyed the Heirocracy. I'm not sure those claims can really be trusted without seeing the relevant primary sources (i.e the letters).

 

For me the command to unite them in Dalinar's visions suggests that the priests may well have shared the same visions as that is exactly what the priests tried to do. They tried to take control, to unite everyone.

[Aether]

Point, but the Death Chant above does seem to indicate that the Visions is a rather recent appearance even now. Not much to go on, I'll give you, but the alternative almost seems too simplistic. Also, the visions are later on (WoR spoiler incoming)

very specific about that it is the Knights Radiant they want [the witness] to unite.

 

The Hierocracy, on the other hand, does not seem to have been aiming to do so.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Aether

[Natans]

Point, but the Death Chant above does seem to indicate that the Visions is a rather recent appearance even no. Not much to go on, I'll give you, but the alternative almost seems too simplistic. Also, the visions are later on (WoR spoiler incoming)

very specific about that it is the Knights Radiant they want [the witness] to unite.

 

The Hierocracy, on the other hand, does not seem to have been aiming to do so.

 

But the Ardentia support Dalinar (the ardent in one of the king's feast said to Dalinar that him had their support).

 

For sure they know more than the average joe, maybe they know exactly what are happening with Dalinar. I see some meat in this theory here.  

[Aether]

But the Ardentia support Dalinar (the ardent in one of the king's feast said to Dalinar that him had their support).

 

For sure they know more than the average joe, maybe they know exactly what are happening with Dalinar. I see some meat in this theory here.  

It seems more to me that they support the kind of man he has become rather than what his visions want him to do. The Ardent Adolin spoke with made it seem like they 1. cannot speak about the contents of his visions or the effect it has on him, and 2. does not have any additional information about it. If they had any more specific knowledge about the nature of his visions, I think they would have been a bit clearer about it to either Adolin or Dalinar.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Aether

[Bloodfalcon]

Point, but the Death Chant above does seem to indicate that the Visions is a rather recent appearance even now. Not much to go on, I'll give you, but the alternative almost seems too simplistic. Also, the visions are later on (WoR spoiler incoming)

very specific about that it is the Knights Radiant they want [the witness] to unite.

 

The Hierocracy, on the other hand, does not seem to have been aiming to do so.

I don't understand. Aren't the visions memories? It doesn't really matter when they started because any people who seem to have been acting on the message previously might have been a member of the original audience, no?

[Natans]

It seems more to me that they support the kind of man he has become rather than what his visions want him to do. The Ardent Adolin spoke too made it seem like they 1. cannot speak about the contents of his visions or the effect it has on him, and 2. does not have any additional information about it. If they had any more specific knowledge about the nature of his visions, I think they would have been a bit clearer about it to either Adolin or Dalinar.

 

I think that there is more than a sect in the Ardentia, if the Dalinar ardent didn't say anything maybe he didn't know. But i get your drift so lets' wait a little bit, we don't have much info of the Ardentia.

 

But I think that they are a major player in the next books. Until know we have a Ardent ghostblood, two fabrial scientist, one Ardent that engage in Alenthi court politics, for sure there something going on in this front =)

[Aether]

I don't understand. Aren't the visions memories? It doesn't really matter when they started because any people who seem to have been acting on the message previously might have been a member of the original audience, no?

I am confused about your statement. The visions are slightly edited versions of Tanavast's memories. Who is the original audience you are referring to?

 

I think that there is more than a sect in the Ardentia, if the Dalinar ardent didn't say anything maybe he didn't know. But i get your drift so lets' wait a little bit, we don't have much info of the Ardentia.

 

But I think that they are a major player in the next books. Until know we have a Ardent ghostblood, two fabrial scientist, one Ardent that engage in Alenthi court politics, for sure there something going on in this front =)

I didn't even think of that. You're right, there might be secret sects within the Ardents (now that I'm thinking about it, am I the only one that is getting the impression that the Ghostsbloods themselves might be an Vorin sect?).

Edited December 6, 2013 by Aether

[The Rooster]

From a WoB, we also know that shenanigans from some sort of investiture or magic system, our universes physics apply. While this does not assure Alethi genetics are identical to ours, it does mean that any genetic rules of trait inheritance are ones that a (theoretical all-knowing and with proper equipment) genetic engineer would be able to reproduce here.

 

Also WoB statements that Odium was invested much more heavily in Roshar now than before, and another WoB that Kaladin was now immune to the Thrill.

 

My theory is that as part of that investiture, since the Recreance all Children born to Shardbearers have some small amount of Investment from Odium. Like all Humans on Scadrial have a small minuscule amount of Preservation And Ruin. This allows them to hold enough stormlight to color their eyes, and power the Thrill in battle. 

 

Love it!  This would also explain Syl's hatred of the Shardblades used by men today.  They are corrupted and taint those who use em'

[Bramble Thorn]

It was claimed that the visions were fabrications by the factions that destroyed the Heirocracy. I'm not sure those claims can really be trusted without seeing the relevant primary sources (i.e the letters).

 

For me the command to unite them in Dalinar's visions suggests that the priests may well have shared the same visions as that is exactly what the priests tried to do. They tried to take control, to unite everyone.

 

This is what I think. Considering our one first hand experience with visions, their message and who it was from, calling all visions of the future voidbinding looks like a deliberate attempt to poison the well. The fact that the Heirocracy tried something similar to what Dalinar is being asked to do, because of visions from the Almighty, makes it a near certainty to me that the visions are not a recent phenomenon. They are either ongoing, or Cyclical.

 

Either the Hierocracy meant well in the beginning, and some asshat politicos in charge of the Hierocracy hijacked it, or they just lost, and the winner justified it in the history books. Or both. Either way, I think the visions were real, and were Dalinars visions.

[Gloom]

I believe the Heralds had a hand in events. They seem meddlesome. Perhaps they felt that uniting them would bring the next desolation so they intervened and ensured that the Heirocracy not only failed, but that the visions that may have inspired the event were now considered evil.