Bloodfalcon Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 Natans sponsored a theory on Gavilar's death over in the WoR forum that got me thinking about the relationship between spren, Parshendii, and Gavilar's stone. I'll make this as quick as I can as it was a pretty quick thought.Is it possible that Navani's (or was it Jasnah's) theory on the ability to capture spren is really the cause of the murder, and not the stone itself? What if there really is a spren, just any spren, in that stone, and the murder was misdirected b/c the Parshendii thought Gavilar was the brains behind it? It would mean that Gavilar knew how to trap spren, which might be the key to wiping out the Parshendii on a massive scale. Consider the possibility of Jasnah walking onto a battlefield with a bag of spheres (not suggesting this is specifically what is required, just run with it for a moment) and then sucking the spren out of the Parshendii warriors and turning them into Parshmen on the spot. I don't think this theory fits as well as some of the others, but it seems possible to me. Thoughts? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 Well, it's possible, but why would the Parshendi think it's all Gavilar's fault? For that matter, how would they know about Navani's research? No, this is too... out there. It doesn't tie well in the bigger plot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodfalcon Posted October 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) What? It would be easy to know. They see the stone, and know what it is and what it means and assume Gavilar is the one who knows the secret they are trying to keep. Navani did the research but THAT is what they don't know. Gavilar spent a lot of time with the Parshendii and if he didn't show them the stone purposefully, they might have seen it around. Edited October 29, 2013 by bloodfalcon2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 I don't know... The sphere looked like something Gavilar would be careful not to reveal, considering his beliefs that the Ghostbloods (?) were out to get him. Plus I am still bothered by the whole "the Parshendi killed him for the sphere" thing. If it was the reason, why wouldn't they give Szeth instructions to do something with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodfalcon Posted October 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) This theory suggests that they did not kill him for the sphere, but for what it represented. He spent lots of time with them - enough that he was able to work out a treaty. There may be things that he shared with them or asked them about (I'm talking about the stone here) b/c they had more knowledge on the subject then he did.It's even possible the he TOOK the stone from them without permission, killing their secret, and that is where Navani got the subject that inspired her study. Edited October 29, 2013 by bloodfalcon2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 But that doesn't solve the issue - if you are willing to kill the king of the most violent nation in the world because he might cause problems with that sphere of his, you don't just leave the sphere for his next of kin to take. You tell your assassin to take it and then give it to you so you can hide it somewhere, or perhaps even destroy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodfalcon Posted October 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 Again, the theory I proposed initially is concerned with what they believe him to know, not the stone.They mistake his possession of the stone as proof that he knows how it works. If Gavilar was found dead with the stone and never said what he did, I doubt anyone would have even considered what it was. They all walk around with gems constantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloom Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 Q: As far as I can tell, in SA, we have seen three different lights: the stormlight, the amberlight in the flashbacks, and the dark light in the stone. Do those correspond to the three Shards? A: No, the amberlight is more a function of...it’s no different than the stormlight. Q: So, you see that in a storm? Like when gems gather that in the storm? A: That amberlight is more related to…so, no…you are not seeing something other than stormlight. That is like saying that stormlight in a topaz is a different color than stormlight in a sapphire. It’s not different colors; you’re just seeing it filtered through something. The dark light of the, um, the gemstone that Szeth was given is indeed something different and distinct. Q: Voooiidlight? A: Yes, it is related to a different shard. How about that? (clearly not a confirmation of “voidlight”) This would seem to indicate that were talking about something that wasn't casually stumbled upon in Navanis research. It leads me to believe that this is an actual artifact of another time that was placed in Roshar for a reason. It's possible that it was what motivated the Parshendi to have Galivar assassinated, but it still bothers me that they failed to provide Szeth in any instructions regarding what should be done with it. The Parshendi may have had him killed so he wouldn't discover the most important words a man can say just as easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodfalcon Posted October 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) Thanks Gloom! I've read a fair amount of Q&A posts, but I hadn't seen that one. Edit: Wait, spren and stormlight could be related to two different Shards, so this is till a potentially valid theory. Voidlight was suggested, but not specified in the answer. Edited October 29, 2013 by bloodfalcon2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloom Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 Yes, actually, none of these are in theory land. I've had to bookmark them separately. They are the most current Q/A sessions that I'm aware of. I'll link them here since I should have referenced a source anyways. Seattle Newcago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levian Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 I personally very strongly believe that the Parshendi are *not* the voidbringers, and that they fought on the side of the Radiants and the Heralds. The Parshendi act too honourably towards Dalinar and Kaladin and his crew for me to think they are evil. I believe they were created to be strong warriors during Desolations, and great servents in between, to help rebuild in preparation for the next Desolation.I don't really have any evidence but I have a feeling the Ghostbloods are behind it. I believe they know the Parshendi are a key to surviving the Desolation, and so they are turning the Alethi against them, wiping them out and thinking them the enemy. I don't know why they took credit for the assassination though, don't even really have a guess at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuoni Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 Alas, Eshonai's POV tells us that they, indeed, sent Szeth. Not to mention Szeth'd POV in the first chapter - unless you think he was thinking lies to himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinpoint Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 (edited) WoR Spoilers I hope that this has been brought up before, but in the Eshonai interlude I found it pretty obvious that the Parshendi were commanded by their God to kill Gavilar. Eshonai: What she wouldn’t have given to be able to go among them unnoticed, to adopt their monochrome skin for a year and walk their roadways, see their grand cities, explore. There were so many new things to see. She wanted to investigate them all, experience them all. Instead, she and the others had ordered the murder of their king in a desperate gambit to stop the Parshendi gods from returning. Well, that hadn’t worked out. Edited December 3, 2013 by Windrunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuoni Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 (edited) WoR Spoilers I hope that this has been brought up before, but in the Eshonai interlude I found it pretty obvious that the Parshendi were commanded by their God to kill Gavilar.How did you come to that conclusion? It says she and the others had ordered Not "she and the others were ordered" Edited December 3, 2013 by Windrunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 (edited) I hope that this has been brought up before, but in the Eshonai interlude I found it pretty obvious that the Parshendi were commanded by their God to kill Gavilar. Woah! Spoiler-tags, buddy! This is not general knowledge, but from the WoR-readings. Unless you're in the Words of Radiance forum, always use [spolier]<your text>[/spolier] (misspelled intentionally) for information such as this. EDIT: I do not get why I had this entire thing in spoiler-tags. Edited December 13, 2013 by Aether 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 Yep, Aether's right on. All WoR spoilers need to be in a tag, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matrim Bloody Cauthon Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 this morning I read about gavilars assassination and I had the thought that based on what we learn about capturing spren in WoR that gavilar might have had a spren in that stone. possibly a stormspren or another spren that would give the parshendi forms of power. that would explain why he told szeth not to let them get it. Possible evidence is that szeth feels uncomfortable around it. aside from the fact that this could be because he got it from the person that he assassinated this could be because it could turn the parshendi into voidbringers or forces of odium. he carries an honorblade. anything of odium would make him feel uncomfortable. just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windshard Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 From the Listerner songs, I was under the impression that the Parshndi had spren which would help them achieve their different forms, but the spren wanted the meal of human cognition " we their broth and humans's their meat or something like that" and they betrayed them. Desperate, they turned to Odium and his spren and were put under his control. It also seemed like the voidbringers were the Gods of the Parshendi and that Gavilar wanted to bring them ( or the KR) and, by extension, the voidbringers back. Which is why they felt, with regret, that they had to kill him. To stop their terrible gods from returning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodfalcon Posted April 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 This theory is still possible, I suppose. If the Parshendii ability to capture spren is what leads to bonding (either KR style or Parshendii style) it would be good enough reason for making sure humans didn't possess the ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 Honestly, once conversations turn entirely into spoilers, it's probably better to go discuss things in a different thread - one in the Words of Radiance subforum, for example. This one is appropriate for this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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