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Odium's influence in Fjordell


Khmauv

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I have been listening to Elantris on audiobook recently and something stuck out. When Hrathen is explaining to Dilaf the need to 'find somebody to hate', he says (I am quoting from a poor memory. Sorry.) "Hate unites people better than devotion ever could." 

 

I thought about this and wonder if you could write it this way, "Hate unites people better than Devotion ever could." It got me thinking, what kind of influence does Odium have over the Fjordell empire and Wyrn for that matter.

 

I may be digging a little deep here, but this seemed too perfect a connection to Odium.

 

Any thoughts?

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Thing about Odium's Intent is that you can find it everywhere there is conflict. And the statement Hrathen made is as true on our world as on his. Whether that quote was a nod by Brandon to the greater Cosmere story or just an interesting coincidence is a question for him.

In any case, I'm sure the changes made by Odium to Sel to cause the Splintering of Devotion and Dominion still linger. I'm also pretty sure he has no current active influence; a little busy on Roshar.

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Well, Odium "settling" on Roshar was the first time he'd done that, and is the reason he can't leave for now, so I doubt he left much of anything behind on Sel.

 

Umm... Odium never really settled on a planet.  He is now settled on Roshar and his magic has permeated things.  Leaving would be very difficult for him.  It would either involve leaving behind some of his power or ripping that out, which would be a difficult process.  So yes it is very tough to leave.  That is an excellent question and for those of you who don’t know.  Is anyone just baffled by that question?

 

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Yeah odium didn't leave any of his own power on Sel.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Stormlight_Archive/comments/1a3fj0/discussion_of_the_week_shadesmar_truthspren/c8tw3b7?context=3

It says that it's dangerous to travel to Shadesmar on Sel. Why?

[–]mistborn

It has to do with the Dor and the lack of an entity controlling much of the power Odium left in his wake on Sel.


[–]Phantine

Woah, that's interesting. I had no idea odium left little bits of his power on Sel... I guess it kinda makes sense for evil monks to be powered by pure hate, though.

[–]mistborn

Odium did not leave his power behind, one should note. He left several other powers which are now, to a large extent, mindless...

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I actually started a topic recently which included that quote for similar reasons ;)

 

Don't know if it means anything or not, but it's fun to speculate. Guess it depends how much of the details of this meta-plot Brandon had planned when writing Elantris.

Edited by Senor Feesh
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Can odium continue affecting people if he doesn't have any investiture on the planet? I've been meaning to organize my thoughts on how svrakiss correlate to the Unmade and I think that is very relevant to this thread. There is some evidence that Odium uses dead souls that can possess living bodies. Could that be a way to keep your influence going on a planet even when not there? Perhaps a dead soul with the Investiture of Odium could possess someone on Sel and actually use Odium's magic there... 

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We have to remember that not all hate comes from Odium.  That might be a nod towards the cosmere, but Elantris was his first published book.  There was no promise that he would ever get to anything involving Odium.  If Mistborn and Warbreaker had flopped, would Kings ever have been released as it is?  This could be just as easily a misinterpretation of Dominion.

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I agree with Aeth, but it's still possible that, now that the books went well, he can go back and use some of the old open-ended material like this. Still, it sounds more like Dominion, I'm just trying to see if there's a way it isn't. :/

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I am willing to wager that long before publishing Elantris Brandon plotted out the Cosmere Story Arc. He likely knew that Odium had come to Sel, corrupted the religions and shattered the Shards on the planet. Hate, Love, and Power. Odium, Devotion, Dominion. And the overarching theme of Unity viewed from all three perspectives. These three themes are woven into the fabric of the novel. Having a quote like Hrathen gives packed with thematically relevant ideas screams at me that Brandon is foreshadowing. 

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That is a possibility, but we have already seen how he changes his work during the writing process.  Any changes like that could change the cosmere dramatically.  Weren't Alloy and Emperor basically spur of the moment writing?  There is no way he could have planned for those early in the process.  We have several examples of stuff coming up in different books but being totally unrelated in any way.  Personally, I feel that this is just reading too much into something that is basically a saying that is fairly widespread.

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That is a possibility, but we have already seen how he changes his work during the writing process.  Any changes like that could change the cosmere dramatically.  Weren't Alloy and Emperor basically spur of the moment writing?  There is no way he could have planned for those early in the process.  We have several examples of stuff coming up in different books but being totally unrelated in any way.  Personally, I feel that this is just reading too much into something that is basically a saying that is fairly widespread.

 

I don't quite agree with this.  I feel like this can be thematic foreshadowing without the need for the shards to be explicitly involved.

 

For instance, there is a bit in Warbreaker where Vasher is musing how, in order to create something, you have to destroy something that was already there.  This clearly connects, thematically, to Mistborn, especially the ending of the first trilogy.  It would be unlikely, to say the least, that Ruin or Preservation had anything to do with Warbreaker directly, and yet the thematic connection is still there.

Or in other words, there is a good chance that Hrathen's statement is one of Brandon's Cosmere echoes:  The direct influence of the shards may not be involved, but their power still influences the whole world indirectly.  Even if it is a general statement about humanity, it could still be an aspect of creation which stems from Odium.

 

Just a thought.

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