Meg Posted December 30, 2012 Report Share Posted December 30, 2012 Hey! I was trying to make a response in the "Szeth and the Stone Shaman"-Thread, but while writing my thoughts I got the feeling, that my posting is kind of off topic there. And since I (again) didn't find an appropriate thread, I dare start one. While answering to IDanielHolm's posting my mind wandered of from one topic to another, resulting for one thing in thinking about creating new Shardplates based on available suits and for another thing what happens while a Shardplate/-blade is lent out and if anybody could run away with a borrowed Plate/Blade. Dalinar alludes to the possibility of stealing Plate -- he thinks that the Parshendi can attempt to grow an entire Plate set out of the gauntlet he was forced to abandon, so it is not bound to you. Dalinar -- as you wrote -- was forced to abandon his gauntlet. I think, if anybody gives up his Blade or (pieces of the) Plate, he also gives up his "bond" to it. When Dalinar left his gauntlet he had been fully aware of his decision. And yes, he thought about the possibility for the Parshendi to create a new suit of Shardplate. It would take days to regrow Dalinar's own gauntlet. Longer, if the Parshendi tried to grow a full suit from the one he had left. They would fail, so long as Dalinar's armorer fed Stormlight into his suit. The abandoned gauntlet would degrade and crumble to dust, a new one growing for Dalinar. This implies that it's not "that easy" to get a new suit from pieces of a Shardplate, even more: if the holder of the original one knows about the lost piece and cares enough for the rest of it, one will fail to create a new one out of the lost piece. This brings up another question: If (in this case) Dalinar's armorers would not give enough Stormlight to his suit, does that cause his suit to "degrade and crumble to dust" and instead giving the Parshendi this suit of Shardplate? This would suggest that there is no real possibility to create new Shardplates because the one piece only grows when the other pieces disappear, which I would not appreciate as "growing a new suit". Doesn't this be more a kind of a change? Developing this thoughts further: If making Shardplates were that easy as to take one piece from another and then grow an new one from it, I think this would already have been discovered and used and there would be much much more Shardplates than there are actually. As for the Blade, I think that if you hold it, you are the possessor of it, regardless of whether the original owner is still alive (and still wants it). I doubt Dalinar can just will his Blade to return, for instance. That's not quite what I meant, though. Since you can lease the king's Shardblade and Plate, once you are wearing them, you could conceivably just decide to run off with them. I've to admit that I don't have an idea how to force back a lent Shardplate or -blade. I think this too has to do with the will to lend Plate and/or Blade. I think there would be strict rules about such an event. And I'm quite sure that the person who leases Plate/Blade would be under the owners watch. And much more I think that such a thing won't happen without a lot of people around (perhaps other Shardbearers too?) so that the one who leased the suit will not be able to just "run away" without being hindered. But besides that, as for the Blade I think, that the Shardbearer can only lend it when it is summoned. And because it is his will and his Blade I think he can make it disappear even while it is hold by another person (who cannot make it disappear). Worried thoughts like always, that came into my mind. Please tell me when and where I'm wrong and, too, if you find my thoughts and postings annoying or redundant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say here.... No, you cannot replicate shardplate since the rest of it dissolves, though you could conceivably give two people half a shardplate No, I think once you give away your plate and blade the new owner owns it. The only thing keeping them from running off is the knowledge that they're in the middle of nowhere and the fact that there are 100+ other shardbearers and around as many armies nearby. That what you were looking for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lDanielHolm Posted January 1, 2013 Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 Dalinar -- as you wrote -- was forced to abandon his gauntlet. I think, if anybody gives up his Blade or (pieces of the) Plate, he also gives up his "bond" to it. When Dalinar left his gauntlet he had been fully aware of his decision. And yes, he thought about the possibility for the Parshendi to create a new suit of Shardplate. This implies that it's not "that easy" to get a new suit from pieces of a Shardplate, even more: if the holder of the original one knows about the lost piece and cares enough for the rest of it, one will fail to create a new one out of the lost piece. This brings up another question: If (in this case) Dalinar's armorers would not give enough Stormlight to his suit, does that cause his suit to "degrade and crumble to dust" and instead giving the Parshendi this suit of Shardplate? This would suggest that there is no real possibility to create new Shardplates because the one piece only grows when the other pieces disappear, which I would not appreciate as "growing a new suit". Doesn't this be more a kind of a change? Not a new suit -- a full suit. There would only be one total suit. No one brought up creating a new suit aside from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meg Posted January 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 No, you cannot replicate shardplate since the rest of it dissolves, though you could conceivably give two people half a shardplate Not a new suit -- a full suit. There would only be one total suit. No one brought up creating a new suit aside from you. Yes, I'm sorry for confusing. I've misread this passage, because I misinterpreted "... grow a full suit ..." for "a new full" suit. Otherwise I thought there it would have been called "grow the full ...". Excuse me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aminar Posted January 1, 2013 Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say here.... No, you cannot replicate shardplate since the rest of it dissolves, though you could conceivably give two people half a shardplate No, I think once you give away your plate and blade the new owner owns it. The only thing keeping them from running off is the knowledge that they're in the middle of nowhere and the fact that there are 100+ other shardbearers and around as many armies nearby. That what you were looking for? I don't even think new suits can be made. I've been thinking on the name Shard. The word has huge meaning in the Cosmere and the people of Roshar are pretty aware of Cosmere matters on some level. I think the word Shard is used more purposefully and less subtly than we think. If I had to guess Shardblades are made from Odiumum?(Atium but from Odium) and shardplate is made from Tanavastium. That would make making new ones extra difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted January 1, 2013 Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 I kinda like that idea, though I find it unlikely that SHardblades are chunks of Odium. The Shardthings seem to be littl emore than uberconcentrated stormlight and it isn't too much of a stretch to see them as splinters of a shard. On the blade note, I'm fairly sure Shardblades were Honor's (Being used by radiants and all) but were corrupted by Odium rather than taken over, simply to save power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aminar Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 I don't know about that. My thought being that Atium has a set amount. When burned it reconcentrates. The same can be said for Shardplate which is described as a metal. And it makes sense that they are beyond Fabrials. I recently caught word that there are three kinds of shardblades. I think they could be from each of the three shards on planet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarontos Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 So then what's number three Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 (edited) If I had to guess Shardblades are made from Odiumum?(Atium but from Odium) Surely it would be Rayseum? I could believe that some types of Shardblades are Rayseum but not all, and it would also require significant investing on his part, which would weaken him. Edited January 2, 2013 by Voidus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Count Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 I kinda like that idea, though I find it unlikely that SHardblades are chunks of Odium. The Shardthings seem to be littl emore than uberconcentrated stormlight and it isn't too much of a stretch to see them as splinters of a shard. On the blade note, I'm fairly sure Shardblades were Honor's (Being used by radiants and all) but were corrupted by Odium rather than taken over, simply to save power. I have never really been convinced of this. The main evidence for 'corruption of the blades' seems to be from Syl's reaction to Dalinar's blade (and I think Brandon has said that there is something different about modern blades to those seen in the Feverstone Keep flashback). I much prefer to think of Blade & Plate a ultimate expressions of the Spren bond. I seems that investiture of Shardic power on Roshar is given by bonding with Spren as a result of ones actions / intent. This allows the use of stormlight as a power source (at least in Windrunners and probably some other orders of KR as well). It also seems that the manipulatiion of stormlight grows with each oath given. This leads me to think of the blade and plate as the highest manifestation of those powers. The physical manifestation of pure spiritual power in the form of weapons and armour. I think Syl's reaction is as a result of Dalinar not having attained sufficient 'Honour' (i.e. oaths) to be worthy of weilding such a blade. Or it could be more fundamental as a dislike for weapons / killing in general with more powerful weapons elliciting a more intense dislike. I often wonder about Dalinar's comment of there being no shardtools, but maybe there were before the desolations... But I am getting off topic now... Either way I certainly think that Blade and Plate can be created but at least some flavours of surgebinders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aminar Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 So then what's number three The third Shard T. Cultivation. And yes it would be Raesium. Forgot the name and needed to get the name across. I think Honor would abhor violence as a rule given Syl's attitude. I'm pretty sure part of the series's tone is about how bad violence is for a society. Thus the thought Honor has armor... I need more info on that theory, but there are some very very strong anti violence sentiments and I know Brandon felt he was too violent in Mistborn at points. It's where Warbreaker came from. And I think that the SA is refining this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 From what we've seen of the desolations and Radiant times, the monsters were all non-living. All SHardblades needed to do was cut innanimate material, and they'd eat up thunderclasts and midnight escence for breakfast. If I had to hazard a guess, Odium added on the killing bit and things worked out wonderfully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aminar Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 I don't know about that... What if the Heralds shardblades can't hurt people at all? Those make the most sense as Honor's anyway right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarontos Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 (edited) Surely it would be Rayseum? I could believe that some types of Shardblades are Rayseum but not all, and it would also require significant investing on his part, which would weaken him. What would it make Shard plate=ranavast Blade=odium ?=rayisim Edited January 2, 2013 by Tarontos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 What would it make Shard plate=ranavast Blade=odium ?=rayisim Rayse and Odium are the same person. I find it amazingly unlikely that Honor gave his representatives and soldiers weapons of Odium. Shardblades would have had to have been corrupted or changed after the fact for that to work at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarontos Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 Sorry I meant cultivation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aminar Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 My stuff is all a feeling based on theme and is predicated on the assumption Syl is a piece of Honor and reacts to Shard Blades like the mists react to Hemalurgy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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