Copper Compounders

[Oxinabox]

The whole thing about compounding is that it is (like Allomancy) net possitive.

Compounding lets you "burn" feurcamical charges, to release the effect of having tapped 10x that which was burned.

(Which can then be re-stored in metal minds).

So a Gold compounder can go heal at half rate for 1 hour, and then using compounding have access to 5 hours (10*0.5) of extra healing.

(More so, by just compounding, and re-storing they can avoid ever having to store after the first time).

Compounding lets you get more out than you put in.

What happens when you Compound copper?

Assumably you remember more than you stored.

Some possibilities:

* Get the same memory multiple times or really vividly. (I guess this might be able to be used to avoid degregation of memories.)

* Remember more than they saw the first time. So if they memorises a painting, upon recalling that memory they might notice a detail they missed, eg that one of figures in the paint was actually a woman, not a man as most thought.

* Remember things they didn't see:

- Remember what happened behind you

- After burning a memory of a room, with a chest of draws in it (that you never opened), being able to walk around that room in your memory and open the draws.

* Remember things that were outside of your concious perception. I'm thinking like in Way of Kings, Shalan has a Memory ability where she can take a snapshot of a scene in her head, and then redraw it later (it seems very similar to copperminds). Later in the books when she redraws the scene it has these spooky figures (Truthspren) in it that she didn't ever see there when she took the memory.

*Remember memories that you didn't store.

- Your own memories, but with Coppermind clarity

- The memories of Copper Ferricamists, that died untapped, (or who's metalminds were destroyed)

[ReaderAt2046]

* Get the same memory multiple times or really vividly. (I guess this might be able to be used to avoid degregation of memories.)

* Remember more than they saw the first time. So if they memorises a painting, upon recalling that memory they might notice a detail they missed, eg that one of figures in the paint was actually a woman, not a man as most thought.

Probably a combination of these two. You remember everything about that memory, and it doesn't fade.

[bronzecompounder]

i gotta agree with Reader here. the other suggestions are EXCELLENT, but at the same time, i can't see mere copper compounding giving you access to new information. alas.

although compounding a memory and remembering everything you smelled and heard (even faintly) and even tasted would be pretty cool. i would revisit favourite meals SO OFTEN, you don't even know. :3

[Shivertongue]

We were talking about this same thing in the chat room a while back, and came to the conclusion that the coolest way for Copper Compounding to work would be, when you burn it, you relive the memory from an outsider's perspective. So you can relive it, but also look at it from different angles, in ways you weren't able to when you were experiencing it the first time or simply tapping the memory in a coppermind.

Naturally, you could only use one memory from a coppermind, so you'd want to burn one that didn't have anything else in it. But the things you could do with this would be very interesting - forensics scientists compounding a memory of a crime scene, for instance.

[ReaderAt2046]

Naturally, you could only use one memory from a coppermind, so you'd want to burn one that didn't have anything else in it. But the things you could do with this would be very interesting - forensics scientists compounding a memory of a crime scene, for instance.

Why? I would assume that when you burn a coppermind, it Compounds every memory stored.

[Lance Alvein]

I believe the reasoning for it only working on a single memory is because you can't relive multiple memories at once, so it wouldn't really be very useful

[ReaderAt2046]

I believe the reasoning for it only working on a single memory is because you can't relive multiple memories at once, so it wouldn't really be very useful

You wouldn't have to. The Compounded memories never fade, so you could review them at leisure

[Shivertongue]

You wouldn't have to. The Compounded memories never fade, so you could review them at leisure

In the version YOU came up with. In the idea I was referring to, the memories do fade unless you store them again. Additionally, if you permanently encode memories, with perfect clarity, into your mind, then eventually it would drive you insane. The human mind can only contain so much information.

[ReaderAt2046]

In the version YOU came up with. In the idea I was referring to, the memories do fade unless you store them again.

Additionally, if you permanently encode memories, with perfect clarity, into your mind, then eventually it would drive you insane. The human mind can only contain so much information.

Part 1: That makes perfect sense. Thank you for clarifying.

Part 2: Yes, but Compounding does pretty strange things to humans anyway. Besides, some people have that kind of memory naturally.

[Triasmus]

TLR had perfect memory (rumored, likely true), likely from compounding.

[dyring]

Wouldent you just end up with 10, identical, stored memories of the same incident?

You wouldent risk fussying stuff(cause you wouldent take the memory out and then insert them again, as you´d have several). But not that great an advantage.

[Vikter]

Perhaps compounding a coppermind memory works like a DVR. You can Pause,Fast Forward, Rewind a memory as much as you want without losing it. You can even skip all those pesky infomercials, and ads for Viagra.

On slightly more serious note, my only problem with Copper Compouding is that you have to be burning the metal to use it. If I am burning the metal I will destroy it and therefore lose anything else left in the coppermind.

[Geckoman]

if i remember correctly when you store memories in copper you forget what you stored so maybe when you compound you create copies of the memory this allows you to remember the memory and instantly store the memory so it doesn't degrade. And if you keep compounding you are always taking memories out and putting them back so they are always fresh in your mind and the copy in the metal mind never goes bad from being in you mind to long.

This could be how the lord ruler had perfect memory. It is possible to vary somewhat how quickly you burn your metal allomanticly. So maybe you don't have to compound copper enough to give you 10 times. You only need 2 times the memories for what I explained and then maybe the copper wouldn't burn as fast.

Edited July 6, 2012 by Geckoman

[Oxinabox]

I would assume that when you pure it you can tap out all the other memories and store them, in other mineds.

Miles wasn't getting health from the metal he burnt,

he was getting health from the charges he tapped from his other metalminds.

He was burning to recharge those minds.

I would say they transfering is something you can do.

Addmittedly every memory transfered would have some wear and tear asw it passed briefly though your mind.

(or maytbe not, if you can transfer directly. Compare Nicrosil)

[Lady_Yasha]

Part 1: That makes perfect sense. Thank you for clarifying.

Part 2: Yes, but Compounding does pretty strange things to humans anyway. Besides, some people have that kind of memory naturally.

Compounding does strange things to the power they use. And people with eidetic memory have different brain functions to normal people; it's like autistic savantism without the social inhibitions. Any normal human storing that much information would drive you insane, because your brain doesn't know how to store it properly like an eidetic/autistic.

Even then there's scepticism that eidetics actually exist. Some researchers have found that, while some people are able to recall events with photographic realism, it's more related to flashbulb memory. Ie. when a memory is needed it is often recalled with complete clarity, despite the likelihood of having faded like all memory does with time.

So even eidetic minds could be fragile to vast amounts of information.

Edited July 13, 2012 by Lyrebon

[happyman]

I think the idea I like best is that you get absolutely perfect recall with no decay to due sitting in your mind. It would allow for superhuman memory beyond even what Sazed developed, and what he had was pretty darn good. It would definitely explain TLR's perfect memory. Also, given how long TLR had to live, perfect memory was probably the only way he could keep anything straight any more.

Edited July 31, 2012 by happyman

[dj26792]

Yeah that seems to be the most logical solution for the facts as we know them

[Commander Spoonface]

I personally lean towards it permanently encoding those memories into your brain vividly so that they don't fade, or at least do so very slowly. With a coppermind with little stored inside it could be useful. With a large coppermind it would almost certainly drive you insane.

[dj26792]

I suspect it results in perfect recall like you say, but doesn't drive you crazy, instead you would turn into a savant and the modifications that causes would allow you to retain your sanity (although people would think you weird I suspect).

[Thought]

Compounding vision doesn't given you two images of the same thing, nor does compounding health give you a second heart, or compounding speed give you more legs/arms. Everything only enhances what you already have. Thus, compounding memory should just enhance the memory, not give you more, assuming it follows the other patterns. Therefor, it is unlikely that compounding copper would give you 10 memories of the same thing.

Likewise, compounding doesn't give a feruchemist something they didn't have at all before. Gold can let you regrow an arm you lost but, presumably, it doesn't let you grow an arm you never had. Thus, while a compounded memory might be vivid, it can't give you more information than there is in the memory itself.

The solution, thus, is that compounding a memory just gives you a photographic version of that memory as it was contained in the coppermind. So, if you burned a degraded memory, you'll only get that degraded memory. If we keep in mind Kwaan's memory, this doesn't seem too bad. Kwaan's memory seems to have allowed him to remember information he put into his copperminds (the prophecies). Thus, compounding copper seems like it would probably give one abilities similar to Kwaan's.

[happyman]

Compounding vision doesn't given you two images of the same thing, nor does compounding health give you a second heart, or compounding speed give you more legs/arms. Everything only enhances what you already have. Thus, compounding memory should just enhance the memory, not give you more, assuming it follows the other patterns. Therefor, it is unlikely that compounding copper would give you 10 memories of the same thing.

Likewise, compounding doesn't give a feruchemist something they didn't have at all before. Gold can let you regrow an arm you lost but, presumably, it doesn't let you grow an arm you never had. Thus, while a compounded memory might be vivid, it can't give you more information than there is in the memory itself.

The solution, thus, is that compounding a memory just gives you a photographic version of that memory as it was contained in the coppermind. So, if you burned a degraded memory, you'll only get that degraded memory. If we keep in mind Kwaan's memory, this doesn't seem too bad. Kwaan's memory seems to have allowed him to remember information he put into his copperminds (the prophecies). Thus, compounding copper seems like it would probably give one abilities similar to Kwaan's.

This seems about right, and what I meant above. Every memory stored and burned becomes much more vividly than it otherwise would have been, but contains no more information than it ever had. It would turn copper compounders into people with photographic memory. Like the Lord Ruler is rumored to have had.

As for Kwaan's memory, it's probably not that he could remember memories that he stored in his metalminds so much it is that he could gain and keep them in his own mind incredibly easily. It would go: he memorizes something in a second, stores it and forgets it-and then memorizes it again just as fast and never forgets it. It makes comparisons easy.

[Vortaan]

The problem is that Allomancy is temporary. You get a lot of health in one shot but unless you store it again, it's gone when the metal goes. Same with any compounded ability. I actually can't see this being all that useful since after your copper is gone, you'd have to restore the memory or lose it forever.

The thing I could see happening is actually hallucinating that you are in the memory for as long as you burn copper. That would let you remember everything like it's happening (the most perfect form of recall I can think of), but you'd lose the memory of the experience entirely unless you stored it. This could actually be pretty cool, since what you could store in a coppermind would be this experience, so you'd be able to create and live in extremely vivid memories of some of your most important events.

[Thought]

The problem is that Allomancy is temporary. You get a lot of health in one shot but unless you store it again, it's gone when the metal goes. Same with any compounded ability. I actually can't see this being all that useful since after your copper is gone, you'd have to restore the memory or lose it forever.

The flow of power is temporary, but the effects are permanent. You can use all that healing power at once, to recover ridiculous amounts of injuries. When the metal runs out, you are still healed. At worst, after the metal is gone, the memory would start to fade as normal.

[Vortaan]

The flow of power is temporary, but the effects are permanent. You can use all that healing power at once, to recover ridiculous amounts of injuries. When the metal runs out, you are still healed. At worst, after the metal is gone, the memory would start to fade as normal.

The point being the "permanently seared into your memory" idea doesn't work. After the copper burns out, you are going to be at your default state unless you store the enhanced state.

[Thought]

Ah, you're misunderstanding feruchemical basics, it sounds like. Copper isn't like steel. With steel, you can store half your speed. With copper, you can't store half your memory of something. It is all or nothing. And, when you tap the mind, you don't get back only half your memory of something, you get it all bad, permanently. Copper is binary. Thus, we should expect copper compounding to likewise be binary. It might increase the force of the memory, but once its been transferred, that transfer is complete and no longer needs to be powered. Compounding produces normal feruchemical effects, but it is fueled by allomancy. That, however, doesn't change the the actual effects are the same old feruchemical ones.