Dalinar's Boon

[Pre5to]

I've been lurking on here for a while and I keep seeing these wild theories as to what it was, so I thought I'd post what occurred to new as I was reading it, might have been dismissed already, but here goes.

Is there anything that says the boon and curse can't be the same thing? We know that dalinar whent to the night watcher right after, our at least soon after his wife died, right? Well basically I think he went there to ask her to make the pain or grief of her passing go away. And so the nightwatcher granted him his boon and his curse in the same move, taking away grief (boon) and memory (curse)

[Aethling]

Good idea. The boon is not alway what the people ask for, but something like this sounds like her style.

[happyman]

Of all the wild speculation out there, this is always the one that seemed most plausible to me. It falls well within what we have seen from other examples of the Old Magic and seems fitting to boot.

[Asha'man Logain]

I've been lurking on here for a while and I keep seeing these wild theories as to what it was, so I thought I'd post what occurred to new as I was reading it, might have been dismissed already, but here goes.

Is there anything that says the boon and curse can't be the same thing? We know that dalinar whent to the night watcher right after, our at least soon after his wife died, right? Well basically I think he went there to ask her to make the pain or grief of her passing go away. And so the nightwatcher granted him his boon and his curse in the same move, taking away grief (boon) and memory (curse)

Dalinar seems to think that he got the boon of losing the memory of his wife, and that his curse is Renarin's poor health.

I, however, think Dalinar aked for his son to live, or to 'not lose his son'. This I think was his boon, and the curse, taking something equal away, was losing all memory of his wife. IIRC we are told that you ask for a boon and you get a boon (not necessarily what you intended) and she gives you a curse equal to your boon. This feels to me something that is kind of balanced, but not as harsh as it could be since the boon asked was not entirely self-serving.

[darkanimereal1]

I've been lurking on here for a while and I keep seeing these wild theories as to what it was, so I thought I'd post what occurred to new as I was reading it, might have been dismissed already, but here goes.

Is there anything that says the boon and curse can't be the same thing? We know that dalinar whent to the night watcher right after, our at least soon after his wife died, right? Well basically I think he went there to ask her to make the pain or grief of her passing go away. And so the nightwatcher granted him his boon and his curse in the same move, taking away grief (boon) and memory (curse)

 

I'm torn. I totally agree with this theory because I had a similar thought. Even further, I couldn't help but wonder if Dalinar blamed himself for her death (or maybe even was the direct cause out of his inability to control his anger? ...) In that way, the Boon and the Curse would be the same.

However, (and I don't have the quote) I distinctly remember Dalinar stating that he knew very well what his Boon was, but that he was not willing to discuss it with Adolin and Renarin (so it must have been when it got brought up between the three--perhaps when Navani is with them discussing the visions? I can't remember for sure...) In that case, I don't think that the Curse and Boon being exactly the same would work--if he wanted to forget, then how could he know for certain what the Boon was--he'd just forget every time he tried to think on it.

 

Dalinar seems to think that he got the boon of losing the memory of his wife, and that his curse is Renarin's poor health.

I, however, think Dalinar aked for his son to live, or to 'not lose his son'. This I think was his boon, and the curse, taking something equal away, was losing all memory of his wife. IIRC we are told that you ask for a boon and you get a boon (not necessarily what you intended) and she gives you a curse equal to your boon. This feels to me something that is kind of balanced, but not as harsh as it could be since the boon asked was not entirely self-serving.

 

Where is this mentioned? Whenever I read the book, I always got the distinct impression that the loss of memory of his wife was the Curse--he never refers to it as the Boon. I don't remember anything about Renarin's health being in the mix either, although I could have slipped over that part.

[Elwynn]

Where is this mentioned? Whenever I read the book, I always got the distinct impression that the loss of memory of his wife was the Curse--he never refers to it as the Boon. I don't remember anything about Renarin's health being in the mix either, although I could have slipped over that part.

 

I'm not positive, but if I remember right (it has been a while), there was some talk about this in relation to Renarin because of pg. 859 in the hardback.

 

...[Dalinar]Would that day never stop haunting him? Was not losing all memory of his wife enough?

                What did Renarin think? Would he condemn his father for such an egregious sin? Dalinar forced himself to look up and meet his son's bespectacled eyes.

 

Like I said, I'm not positive, but I think it was this.

[darkanimereal1]

I'm not positive, but if I remember right (it has been a while), there was some talk about this in relation to Renarin because of pg. 859 in the hardback.

 

 

Like I said, I'm not positive, but I think it was this.

 

Hmm, I always assumed that he was just thinking "What will my son think of me for seeking out the Old Magic?" or "that I can't even remember my own wife for selfish reasons?" I never read it as having a specific tie to Renarin.

[Elwynn]

Hmm, I always assumed that he was just thinking "What will my son think of me for seeking out the Old Magic?" or "that I can't even remember my own wife for selfish reasons?" I never read it as having a specific tie to Renarin.

 

Then he would probably be thinking the same thing towards Adolin if it was just the Old Magic, but he singles out Renarin. Not to mention they both already know he sought out the Old Magic and nobody in the room, including Navani, considers it anything even approaching an 'egregious sin.'

 

However, being responsible for imposing a lifetime of blood weakness and ostracization on your own son could weigh fairly heavily on the mind of a father as an 'egregious sin.'

[Phantom Monstrosity]

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/2383-qa-with-brandon-sanderson/page-7

Nightwatcher's curses all appear to be neurological in effect, are the boons limited in any particular manner?

Yes.

Just throwing this in here.

[Cheese Ninja]

Oh man, I had fun with that Q&A, I went a bit overboard on the amount of questions (7), but they were all deserving of only brief answers and all got brief answers.  He answered 5 of them using only 10 words total.  He would have needed more words if he wanted to correct my assumptions, so either I guessed correctly or he was just holding back.

 

My main argument was that we are told of two curses in Baxil's chapter (no feeling in hands, and everything looks upside down), and Link von Kelsier Harvey (I think that's his username) guessed that Taravangian's curse was fluctuating intelligence (which seems like a brillant shot in the dark to me), and that was confirmed.  So we have 3 curses, all of which are neurological in effect.  We also have Dalinar, who can't remember/process information about his dead wife.  I argue that that was the curse, and we haven't really seen what the boon is, or if we have, it hasn't been obvious.

 

I'm much more partial to Renarin's health being the boon instead of the curse, and that without it, Renarin would be in a much worse condition.

 

Edit: I never replied to the original post.  Can the boon and curse be the same thing?  Sounds interesting, but the only concrete example we've been given of a boon is "a bolt of cloth", so there's almost no foundation on which speculate. 

Edited April 24, 2013 by Cheese Ninja

[deddinty]

I could see it being considered both a boon and a curse, but I don't know that I see Dalinar seeking out the old magic because of grief over his wife.  He seems stronger than that.  

 

I could see him asking for something for Renarin and the way that paragraph is written makes it seem plausible. More plausible to me based on his personality than seekign to have his wife erased form his mind.

 

But I also thought there was another good potential boon that's somewhat hinted at.  I think it's been mentioned in other threads, but perhaps the boon he sought had to do with his brother, and the time he almost attacked Gavilar simply because he was the only worthy opponent.  Dealing with that and the grief of his lost wife would seem like a good reason to me to need a break and get away from it all, and tempt the powers that be to help him be more loyal to his brother. 

 

I think any of those are plausible, and I'm willing to bet we won't find out for sure until book 4.

[chronotrigger]

I posted a theory about it as well here. In summary, I think he went to the Nightwatcher after he lost Navani to Gavolar and his boon was his wife, but the curse was losing memory of having her when she died. It's very equal when you think about it.

[hoser]

Two minor points:

• Dalinar does think about Renarin specifically (and not Adolin), but it could be because Adolin is not present, having left to get the highstorm damage report. 
• I think that Dalinar would have wanted help to deal with his guilt over getting plastered after Gavilar warned him to stay sober on the night of DalinarGavilar's assassination. 

edit: Gavilar was assassinated, not Dalinar

Edited October 13, 2013 by hoser

[11thorderknight]

First of all, we're told very specifically that having no memory of his wife is Dalinar's boon, not his curse. We also know that the curses, as far as we've seen and also apparently per WoB, are neurological (Cognitive?) in nature. However, the boons aren't - there's a story in the Interlude about the guy who was cursed to see the world upside down getting a sack of expensive cloth or something. So, the boon doesn't have to be neurological. 

[cem]

First of all, we're told very specifically that having no memory of his wife is Dalinar's boon, not his curse. We also know that the curses, as far as we've seen and also apparently per WoB, are neurological (Cognitive?) in nature. However, the boons aren't - there's a story in the Interlude about the guy who was cursed to see the world upside down getting a sack of expensive cloth or something. So, the boon doesn't have to be neurological. 

Uh, are we? Where were we told that? I really can't remember anything of the sort.

 

And, this is the WoB that you mention:

Nightwatcher's curses all appear to be neurological in effect, are the boons limited in any particular manner?

Yes.

He just says they are limited in some manner. He doesn't even confirm the pattern is neurological. So yeah, you're right.

[Shardlet]

Yeah, I agree.  TWoK seems intentionally ambiguous as to whether Dalinar forgetting his wife is his boon or his curse.  I have not heard of any WoB on the subject at all.  Cem raises a good point as well that Brandon's response does not necessarily apply to the neurological aspect of the question.