fyodor Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) The Alloy of Law Broadsheet includes this quote from adventuring tineye Allomancer Jak "Any man they deemed worthy could be made koloss, they claimed. Indeed, several of their most brutish and powerful warriors claimed to have once been men from the City. Obviously false, but there is something in their mindset that makes them think this way" I originally remembered Jak maybe going through some sort of induction ceremony, thinking that the Koloss symbolically allowed people into their tribe in sort of a 19th century adventurer serial type of way, but this seems to pretty clearly indicate that people are being made into Koloss. I think someone mentioned the making of new Koloss during the State of the Union thread but I didn't remember this bit. It wouldn't seem sensible that Sazed would allow the Koloss to keep their spikes but it's hard to come up with an alternative explanation. Given what we know about Koloss, it would be almost intentionally misleading to include that. Other than that, it seems that these new Hemalurgic Koloss are a little more coherent than the old ones, having specific memories of being human and living in the city. F Edited January 3, 2012 by fyodor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inkthinker Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 They could be re-using old spikes, as Human did in the third book. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fyodor Posted January 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 They could be re-using old spikes, as Human did in the third book. I assume they are, but I am surprised that if Sazed made them into true-breeding creatures that he'd also let them keep their spikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inkthinker Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 Hemalurgy still works, after all, and the Koloss have known how to make other Koloss for at least as long as HoA, and presumably before. Just because they can breed now doesn't mean that the spikes in the final TLR generation just vanished, and as we know those can be reused again and again to make new Koloss (not sure how many times, though... do they get a new Hemalurgic charge every time they're used?). This may create some internal, sociological differences between Koloss who are born from Koloss parents and Koloss who are made (I wonder which is considered by the Koloss to be "better"), but there's no reason at all to think that the original methods for creating a Koloss have changed one bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 I'm not sure that these "new" Hemalurgic koloss are any different then the old ones. Human new that he was human once, and made a couple of chilling comments about killing people and living in their houses so they would become human. If the koloss still have all their old spikes I guess they're probably reusing them, but I imagine the charge has weakened. I wonder if becoming koloss now requires more spikes? Or maybe you just are less twisted by them because they are less powerful now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fyodor Posted January 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 I'm not sure that these "new" Hemalurgic koloss are any different then the old ones. Human new that he was human once, and made a couple of chilling comments about killing people and living in their houses so they would become human. If the koloss still have all their old spikes I guess they're probably reusing them, but I imagine the charge has weakened. I wonder if becoming koloss now requires more spikes? Or maybe you just are less twisted by them because they are less powerful now. Human called himself "human" and knew on some level that he had been human. He wasn't able to communicate this to anyone, let alone tell them what city he was from. It may just be a question of the spikes having lost charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aradel Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 Spikes do have a minimum charge, but they're attribute spikes and Sazed in HoA wondered if reusing attribute spikes changes the way they work. He seemed to think that was why Human seemed more aware than previous Koloss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) Human called himself "human" and knew on some level that he had been human. He wasn't able to communicate this to anyone, let alone tell them what city he was from. It may just be a question of the spikes having lost charge. Well like Goradel's Nephew says, Sazed thinks reused spikes make you more human-like. If these spikes were used for three centuries afterward, certainly it would bring the koloss that they created much more humanity, certainly enough to remember where they came from. And also, at least once in the text of HoA, Human says "I am human" so he wasn't that impaired. Vin just kept misinterpreting what he was saying thinking he was telling her his name. Edited January 5, 2012 by Windrunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odium's_Shard Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 The reason re-used spikes may be different is because of Hemalurgic decay. It gets weaker an weaker, and so the twisting becomes lessened, and the gaps (in their minds that allow Emotional Allomancy to control them) get smaller (or bigger?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the95th Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) The reason re-used spikes may be different is because of Hemalurgic decay. It gets weaker an weaker, and so the twisting becomes lessened, and the gaps (in their minds that allow Emotional Allomancy to control them) get smaller (or bigger?). presumably bigger, Elend could control many koloss Vin could control a few, their alomantic strength differed somewhat so it is safe to assume these more human koloss are more open to emotional alomancy like a normal human unless that human has a foil hat of course. what i mean is, 300 years ago Vin and Breeze could control Koloss and elend could contol Even more( and Kandra which would be even less susceptible) so 300 years into the future it is presumable that the more human koloss can be controlled by the simple emotional mistings Edited January 5, 2012 by the95th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aradel Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 I would say the opposite actually, Vin and the others were able to control them because they were less human,warped by the spikes. If the charge decayed the spikes would warp them less making them more human and less susceptible to emotional allomancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcanist Lupus Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Don't forget, the Adventures of Allomancer Jak are about as true as the Adventures of Huckleberry Finn. I think that the story came from half-remembered legends of Koloss spiking, and has no connection to whether or not spiking new Koloss is still possible. (which it might be, but this story is not proof that it is.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fyodor Posted January 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Don't forget, the Adventures of Allomancer Jak are about as true as the Adventures of Huckleberry Finn. I think that the story came from half-remembered legends of Koloss spiking, and has no connection to whether or not spiking new Koloss is still possible. (which it might be, but this story is not proof that it is.) I don't know-why would Jak say that they were claiming to have previously been human and then go on to say that it was impossible? How would such legends have formed? Only a few people knew about the origins of the Koloss in the previous era and the Ars Arcanum says that the Originators stifled all knowledge of Hemalurgy. It's so specific as to be intentionally misleading if he's not actually trying to convey that they're spiking humans into Koloss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the95th Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 I would say the opposite actually, Vin and the others were able to control them because they were less human,warped by the spikes. If the charge decayed the spikes would warp them less making them more human and less susceptible to emotional allomancy. no you are right, the back door is smaller as the spikes are less charged. Dunno what i was smoking to be honest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts