Jump to content

Theory: Adonalsium core


Zhevir

Recommended Posts

Long time reader, first time poster.

I thought I would post my ideas on adonalsium. I know it is about 90% speculation.

My thoughts are that in addition to the 16 shards there is a seventeenth piece that is what remains of the original adonalsium's mind. That is because in my mind adonalsium are like the shards, but on a larger scale.

That also gives me the idea that that core can be the receiver of the letter, as it could have the non interferance policy because pof a number of different reasons.

Any thoughts on the matter. is it even possible? Any thoughts are welcome

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Long time reader, first time poster.

I thought I would post my ideas on adonalsium. I know it is about 90% speculation.

My thoughts are that in addition to the 16 shards there is a seventeenth piece that is what remains of the original adonalsium's mind. That is because in my mind adonalsium are like the shards, but on a larger scale.

That also gives me the idea that that core can be the receiver of the letter, as it could have the non interferance policy because pof a number of different reasons.

Any thoughts on the matter. is it even possible? Any thoughts are welcome

I have had this thought also, though I never came up with the courage to post it. :P

I completely agree that Adonalsium had a consciousness attached to it before it was Shattered as all of the Shards seem to mirror Adonalsium, albeit at a reduced power and with limited scope (their Intent, to use Chaos's terminology.)

A lot of the ideas I have had on this deal with the nature of the Shards. If Shards can be Shattered without destroying the consciousness attached to them, this would be VERY likely. As the consciousness of a Shard can be killed (Leras, Vin and Ati) without Shattering the Shard, it seems possible that one could Shatter a Shard without killing the person attached to it... Unfortunately, with all Shards that have been Shattered, the consciousness has also been killed (Aoni, Skai, and Tanavast are all dead and their Shard Shattered) thought this could just be Odium not stopping at the Shattering and finishing the job. Additionally, what would happen to the mind who is attached to the Shard? We know from HoA that the body of a person who ascends to Shardhood is destroyed/consumed by the power of the Shard. Would Shattering a Shard return the mind to it's original body or a modified one? Would the mind lose most of the knowledge it gained during its time as a Shard? Would the body, original or modified, become immortal or mortal?

In my opinion Hoid is the former consciousness of Adonalsium and he is NOT the first being to hold it. I'd hazard a guess that Liar and its sequel culminate in his ascension (which may be accidental on his part and on purpose by the former holder of Adonalsium) and then the Shattering of Adonalsium, which restores him to a physical body, though he may have gained immortality as a side effect of once being a deity. Support!:

When speaking with Kaladin in WoK, he says he used to be named after a rock. When Kaladin asks if it was a pretty rock, Hoid says it was "beautiful...and one that became completely worthless for my wearing it..." which I feel shows that Hoid feels that his ascension to Adonalsium is, at least, partially to blame for its destruction, as he doesn't feel that he was worthy to become a deity. (This also fits with the "shattering" motif for Adonalsium and it's Shards. Whether they are physical rocks/crystals is up for debate, though the fact that Shards have to physically travel to different plantes (Odium's trip to Sel and back to Roshar) and the inside back cover of WoK seems to point toward this: there are what appear to be meteors in the corners of the cover, which, I believe, denote Odium's return to Roshar from Sel.)

Brandon has said that Hoid is not a Shard. However, as Adonalsium, Hoid would technically not be a Shard, as he was whole, so Brandon has not outright denied this, afaik.

If true, this puts Hoid's goals in a new light. As the former deity of the Cosmere, Hoid feels responsible for the people in the Cosmere, and feels that he let them down by allowing/causing Adonalsium to Shatter. If he is indeed the author of the letter this suggests that Rayse/Bavadin may be the cause of the Shattering and that they may have done it on purpose to gain something (probably power) as he holds a grudge towards them. His purpose in travelling the Cosmere may be to reunite the Shards into Adonalsium by some manner or another, or he could be going around making sure that the Shards are being used wisely by the people who now hold them, as he still doesn't feel worthy of holding them (whom he appears to have known at some point before the Shattering.) He may have wanted to reunite all of the Shards at one point in the past but may have changed his mind and has decided to act as an "invisible" guardian, to make up for his, as he feels, past wrongs.

Welcome to the forums! Speculation, especially in this sub-forum, is our specialty!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes but what he's saying is at some point in that series Hoid ends up holding/being Adonalsium and then it is shattered while Hoid is holding it, its at the very least plausible even if we dont any evidence for (or against) it. Its an interesting theory, not sure where I come down on this one...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the sample chapters of Liar even resemble anything that's going to be canon one day, Hoid can't be the consciousness of Adonalsium because Liar happens before it shatters, iirc.

As I mentioned in my post, I believe that Liar/the sequel will show his ascension, as he is obviously not a deity in those sample chapters, replacing the previous holder. Of course, this is almost completely speculation. ;)

The order of events would be something like thus:

Sample chapters from Liar

:some time gap:

The previous holder dies/leaves/something and "Hoid" ascends

:another time gap: (or not, could happen close to simultaneously with the Shattering)

Adonalsium Shatters

Edit: Ninjaed by dj, that is what I am speculating. There is VERY little basis for this other than that passage in WoK, which is where I got the idea from some time ago.

Edited by Thor
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I always assumed Adonalsium was a woman who Hoid was involved with and that all his workings are towards the end of reassembling her conciousness, possibly at the expense of the Shardworlds as they exist now.

But then, that's pretty baseless and possibly the consequence of playing Final Fantasy Tactics Advanced at an impressionable age.

That said, what would be the consequences if the Shards were removed from the Shardworlds? From Mistborn and WoK, it seems that at least Roshar and Scadrial have been vastly changed by the hands of the Shards since their coming.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As I mentioned in my post, I believe that Liar/the sequel will show his ascension, as he is obviously not a deity in those sample chapters, replacing the previous holder. Of course, this is almost completely speculation. ;)

The order of events would be something like thus:

Sample chapters from Liar

:some time gap:

The previous holder dies/leaves/something and "Hoid" ascends

:another time gap: (or not, could happen close to simultaneously with the Shattering)

Adonalsium Shatters

Edit: Ninjaed by dj, that is what I am speculating. There is VERY little basis for this other than that passage in WoK, which is where I got the idea from some time ago.

Ah. I don't know about that, it would certainly give him a huge motivation to re-stitch Adonalsium together as much as possible, and thus a great motivation for what he's doing, but we don't really know enough about Hoid to really support it with anything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 years later...

Thor,

 

i didnt read your post until after I googled Hoid being adonalsium....I independently came to the same conclusion; I agree with you mainly based off his reference to himself as a rock. We all know hood is peculiar, he would need more assistance than his stacked magical abilities from different shardworlds to know where and when to be at a location, plus who to expect there. His chance meetings with specific people in specific places hints to him knowing the future and the thoughts of individuals. Similar to ruin and preservation. In my two cents, a leftover "17th shard" in hoid would make sense. We just don't know the character attribute----but we specifically know he's extremely hard to kill.

 

PERHAPS hoid could be holding the mystery 16th shard (survivability, I think) but I'm fairly certain we know he's not one of the 16. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also, it's peculiar that Tanavast, aka honor, bought him a drink. If he was adonalsium, perhaps buying him a drink was the natural thing to do---- like giving a defeated enemy a glass of water.....??? Who knows what Brandon S. is cooking up. But he better name a second author, dude has way too much to write in this lifetime lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@joesleepsalot There's also the skaze in Elantris 10A that insists on calling him hoed instead of Hoid, one wonders why...

But on the theory that Hoid used to hold 'Adonalsium' (if we treat it as sort of a super-Shard) there's one major issue. Well, two but one relies on the noncanonical Dragonsteel and not being one of the elect few who have read it I'm working entirely secondhand there. According to the Coppermind, Hoid called himself Topaz (hence 'the gemstone' in the Letter and his talking about being once named for a pretty rock) at some point during that story. Brandon confirmed the connection here. Setting that aside and going with published sources, Secret History has Leras identify Hoid by another alias (Cephandrius) and makes it clear that they knew each other prior to the Shattering. So Hoid was running around on Yolen under at least two names after the Liar of Partinel arc and during the events of the 'main' Dragonsteel story.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Weltall said:

 

There is also the fact. Frost believes Hoid is messing with Adonalsium's design/plan. A weird implication if Hoid was Adonalsium (he would have the better understanding of It)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...

He said Hoid was more powerful than he is. He once was one of the most powerful people in the Cosmere, which could easily be a descriptor of how he was before the Shattering before mortals ascended to God hood, in addition to him losing power. 

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

I have one about Hoid. I want to know, like, when... In Mistborn in Arcanum Unbounded, we find out some really important things about him. But we find out, Hoid is an incredibly powerful person.

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes.

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Like, probably one of the most powerful people in the Cosmere.

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

He once was, and no longer is. So, I can't talk a lot about Hoid, but I'll give you a little bit of where he came from. Where he came from in my brain.

For those who don't know, there's a character who shows up in all my epic fantasy books, named Hoid. Or at least that's the alias he's been using lately. Where did this come from? Well, he came from, actually, me reading books when I was a teenager. I can specifically remember doing it with the Anne McCaffrey books, that I mentioned earlier. I was reading those, and I would insert my own characters. I still do this in movies, and books that I read. I add to the story. And oftentimes, when people, bit parts people, would walk onscreen in those books, or in the chapters, I'd be like, "Oooh, this is the secret character," right? And then I would have them go to the other books, and I'd imagine this kind of behind-the-scenes thing where these characters were going from different worlds of different people's books, so I'd read Anne McCaffrey, and they'd show up in David Eddings, and they'd show up in Tad Williams' books, and they'd show up in Melanie Rawn books, and I was imagining this whole story behind the story that I was creating. This was where the beginnings of me being a writer came from, was doing that. It's my own kind of fan fiction, but it's my own kind of fan fiction in my head where I was saying, "Even the characters in these books don't know the real story."

And when it came time to start writing my own, I was really in love with this idea. I can trace the idea of connecting worlds probably back to when I read the Foundation book that connected the Robots books and Foundation books, if you've ever read those by Asimov. That book kind of blew my mind, that those two series I'd been reading could be connected. And it was really, really fascinating to me. And so that's where the Cosmere came from.

And so Hoid has his origins. He existed behind the scenes of the Cosmere books. You don't have to know who he is to read them. You can just read them, don't worry about it. But behind the scenes, there is a story behind the story, and he was there for those events that happened that created... basically ended up with the various deities on the various planets. Where their origins were, he was there. But he wasn't one of them.

source

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have gotten the impression from the various comments by/about Hoid that he had been a companion or at least an acquaintance to the people who shatterred Adonalsium. So I doubt he was Adonalsium at that time. However, another possibility is that during the events that resulted in Adonalsium's shattering, Hoid held Adonalsium's power for a brief time (like Kelsier holding Preservation's power during Secret History). Perhaps it was part of the plan to shatter him, or perhaps Hoid was tricked.

In this case, if a powerful stone were involved in Hoid's temporary ascension, it would be a stone that became worthless because he posessed it, since it resulted in the Shattering.

It would also explain how Hoid has immortality without possessing  a shard.Once again the example is in Secret History, where after holding Preservation, Kelsier was able to stay in the CR indefinitely.

(note from my Sanderson nerd wife) She wonders if the one who held Adonalsium before Hoid had been the original posessor of the name Hoid. He mentions in Stormlight Archive that the name had been stolen from someone dear to him.

This seems to explain all the loose ends. It allows Hoid to have known the original shatterers when they were all mortals, but also allows for him to have possessed Ad.'s power once.

8 hours ago, Calderis said:

But behind the scenes, there is a story behind the story, and he was there for those events that happened that created... basically ended up with the various deities on the various planets. Where their origins were, he was there. But he wasn't one of them.

I think it fits.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, WhiteEmporer said:

I have gotten the impression from the various comments by/about Hoid that he had been a companion or at least an acquaintance to the people who shatterred Adonalsium. So I doubt he was Adonalsium at that time. However, another possibility is that during the events that resulted in Adonalsium's shattering, Hoid held Adonalsium's power for a brief time (like Kelsier holding Preservation's power during Secret History). Perhaps it was part of the plan to shatter him, or perhaps Hoid was tricked.

In this case, if a powerful stone were involved in Hoid's temporary ascension, it would be a stone that became worthless because he posessed it, since it resulted in the Shattering.

It would also explain how Hoid has immortality without possessing  a shard.Once again the example is in Secret History, where after holding Preservation, Kelsier was able to stay in the CR indefinitely.

(note from my Sanderson nerd wife) She wonders if the one who held Adonalsium before Hoid had been the original posessor of the name Hoid. He mentions in Stormlight Archive that the name had been stolen from someone dear to him.

This seems to explain all the loose ends. It allows Hoid to have known the original shatterers when they were all mortals, but also allows for him to have possessed Ad.'s power once.

I think it fits.

According to the Liar of Partinel chapters that have been released, original Hoid was current-Hoid's old master, who died at the beginning of the story, some time before the Shattering. Granted, this isn't canon, but at this time, it seems unlikely that original Hoid was Ado.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, RShara said:

According to the Liar of Partinel chapters that have been released, original Hoid was current-Hoid's old master, who died at the beginning of the story, some time before the Shattering. Granted, this isn't canon, but at this time, it seems unlikely that original Hoid was Ado.

Haven't gotten to read Liar, unfortunately. Where do I find that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Both parts have it; one of the two available exceprts is a rewritten version of the first chapter and that's where we're introduced to the Hoid who was the 'old master' whose name our Hoid is hiding behind, per Frost's letter in Words of Radiance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I feel like the reference to Hoid having had power and lost it is just a reference to the topaz; Frost basically says it in his Letter.

Quote

Have you given up on the gemstone now that it is dead?

Maybe that's an over-simplified answer, but he used to have more power, then it broke. Now he has less power.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Chaos locked this topic
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...