The Power Of Symbols

[Deus Ex Biotica]

AonDor works by making specific symbols, the Aons, which channel the power of the Dor. This power is further magnified by the city of Elantris, which is in turn a giant Aon. All of that, we know. But, how do the other magic systems work? We don't know, but Mistborn (don't worry, no spoilers here, just a rather well-known detail) shows a world with multiple magic systems which all share the theme of Metal, so I assume there should be a similar common link in Elantris. What could that theme be?

The monks of Drakhor have had their bones warped into odd shapes, which are visible beneath their skin, and different warpings provide different powers. I put it to you that these, too, are symbols. Glyphs in some magical language other than AonDor. Each means a different thing, and they require different numbers of sacrifices to create.

And ChayShan? I believe that must be a language, too, with its adherence to ritually-practiced forms and exact control. I suspect that there are many stock elements in a ChayShan sequence, which have different effects on the powers you get from them.

What do you think?

-- Deus Ex Biotica

[Windrunner]

The monks of Drakhor have had their bones warped into odd shapes, which are visible beneath their skin, and different warpings provide different powers. I put it to you that these, too, are symbols. Glyphs in some magical language other than AonDor. Each means a different thing, and they require different numbers of sacrifices to create.

And ChayShan? I believe that must be a language, too, with its adherence to ritually-practiced forms and exact control. I suspect that there are many stock elements in a ChayShan sequence, which have different effects on the powers you get from them.

The bones are twisted into glyphs. Urg! I'm away from home and have no cosmere books but in the end of Elantris it says Raoden recognizes the twists of bone as ancient Fjordell characters. My running theory is that, much as the focuses on Scadrial were metal, the focuses on Sel are languages. Hrathen remembers monks chanting over him in Dakhor, when his change began. So the power of AonDor is in symbols and the power of FjorDor is in the spoken word. My problem with this is that I can't figure out how the chanting and sacrifices fit together. Maybe I'm totally off base and the chanting just serves to mystify the fact that sacrifices are providing power. My other problem is ChayShan, I cannot figure out how they could incorporate language into their movements. The only idea I have had is that, similar to what you said above, they have basic forms that they fall into, moving in the shape of Jindoeese symbols, and modifying them with other moves, just like Raoden modifies the Aons. If my theory is right, then there would be a nice symmetry going on, one with power from symbols, one from words, and one from motions, just like the three parts of language, reading, speaking, and writing.

[Wispsy]

ancient fjordell characters might be linked to their land and imprinting it on their bones may give them power because they have no elantris aon boosting them

[Deus Ex Biotica]

I do not think that the Drakhor magic is based on their land, since they appear to be confident their powers will work fully even far from their homeland - the Elantrians are notably weaker when they get further from Elantris.

[name_here]

The Alloy of Law Ars Arcanum indicates that the Sel systems are "form based". I believe that all the systems are based off patterns, so AonDor uses the patterns Elantrians draw or construct, Dakhor uses the patterns in the bones, and ChayShan uses the patterns in their katas.

Under this theory, the written characters aren't inherently tied to the magic systems but were instead based off of them in at least two cases.

I do not think that the Drakhor magic is based on their land, since they appear to be confident their powers will work fully even far from their homeland - the Elantrians are notably weaker when they get further from Elantris.

I'm thinking that might not be inherent in the system but because Elantris itself is a power boosting Aon with limited range in addition to powering the Shaod. That would explain why Aons are so much more dramatically powerful than the other types once the Elantris Chasm Line is added.

Edited November 24, 2011 by name_here

[Aiken Frost]

Maybe the change in the bones works the same way that Elantris itself work. The difference is that Elantris is a city, so it is limited in mobility, while your bones you carry everywhere.

ChayShan, to me, is connected to a form of sign language. A kick-chull sign language.

Edited November 24, 2011 by Aiken Frost

[Wispsy]

I do not think that the Drakhor magic is based on their land, since they appear to be confident their powers will work fully even far from their homeland - the Elantrians are notably weaker when they get further from Elantris.

i dont think you should base it just on that u know elantris is a massive power booster on the ground for the magic system, this doesnt mean magic only works near elantris but the elantrians near their home are the most powerful with it....but they can clearly use magic away from it else elantrians woulda never made it to roshar, perhaps molding your bones to the symbols the magic in ur area is based on gives u that magic, but obviously not as much (in power or variety) as a city sized symbol.

[dj26792]

I dont think any of the magic other than the Aons is related to geography, even the aons I think are while based on geography not dependent on it. I think the only reason they are stronger near elantris is because the elantris Aon is making them stronger, I think that rather than the Aons getting weaker as you move away from elantris they get stronger as you move towards Elantris it magnifies the power of the Aons you cast. The Elatntrians themselves dont seem to be affected by moving away from Elantris, just their spells. This (I think) is because their connection relies on the standard connection to the Dor that all the magic systems do, while the Aons are normally enhanced by the city of Elantris.

[Kelek]

Maybe the change in the bones works the same way that Elantris itself work. The difference is that Elantris is a city, so it is limited in mobility, while your bones you carry everywhere.

ChayShan, to me, is connected to a form of sign language. A kick-chull sign language.

Chuck Norris language

But, to be serious, the magic is based on forms. The Aons for Elantrians. Dakhor monks have ancient Fjordell symbols in their bone armor. At the end, when the monks are showing off, there is a mention of glyphs in the bone and also, for Hrathen, his arm glowed at the end of the book. Third, the ChayShan. The way I see the ChayShan magic, I compare it to martial arts. When you first begin, it is all about getting your forms right. You are practicing how to move, how to stand. Forms is the only word I can use because it is about how you move the entire body. And that is the easiest way I can think to describe that one. So glad I just finished my reread of Elantris! It was a lot better the second time around.

[.S.A.M.K.M]

chayshan worked that time in the city, as both types of splinters of shards were present in the area.

Chatshan uses both to power them, it likly was once much easier to use magic, but with the shattering of the shards, it requires use of the city and body manipulation to access full powers. I wonder if the other shard pool is just on the other side of thos mountains, i think the shatterimg created the seperation long ago. when the magics were recreated they used symbols from the seons and skais.

I wonder if elantris arts, could carve symbols on some one bones.

[Voidus]

The language idea seems good as a focus.

Elantris-Written

Dhakor-Spoken

ChayShan-Bodylanguage/sign language

[Triasmus]

I don't think it has to do with language. I think it's the symbols and what they're based on.

Aondor's glyphs are based on geography.

Chayshan's body movements are based on... something that might have only been hinted at, if that.

"Fjordor's" bone symbols are based on... ditto. ^^^

I don't know how the chanting would tie into fjordor. I can think of: they do it because they can, they don't realize they don't have to, or the sounds (err... vibration of the air... whatever) somehow make some kind of symbol.

The symbols might have been used by the early peoples to write their language, but I don't think the magic would be based on languages unless something happened to tie the magic to the languages, like in Eragon (and I'm doubting that something like that happened).

[Voidus]

Well it's just that otherwise the Dhakor couldn't do their teleporting trick. They didn't do anything with their bones at all so it HAS to be based on their chanting. Also their bone symbols didn't make themselves they had to chant them into existence so yeah I'm pretty sure the chanting is a pretty integral part of the Dhakor magic. As for the Chayshan, it's very fluid it's not a series of static poses so I really don't think they could be using the body to represent symbols, otherwise it would be like if the elantrians just drew 50 symbols all at once without stopping, the Dor wouldn't be able to pick which one to follow.

[Triasmus]

Well... I was using "symbols" fairly loosely . I had a mix of "form" and "symbol" going on in my head.

With Chayshan I said "body movements". A single "symbol" in Chayshan might take 5 minutes to "draw" or the "symbols" could easily be "arm is here -> move arm over here".

Orrr... Maybe the practitioners of Chayshan don't get going fast because they're AwesomeSauce but because they have to to get their magic to work. Maybe the "ghost images" that happen when moving fast (wave your arm in front of you) actually form the "symbols" (in this case it'd be a continuing symbol) that get the magic system to work. Maybe you get more powerful the faster you get because the "ghost images" are longer there are more defined ghost images.

Fine... I'll agree that the chants are important, but only if the reason the chants might actually be saying something is because the primitives wanted to make sense of the chants, so they made the certain sounds mean things. EDIT: or if Skai did a "Gray Folk" thing from Eragon.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Lantern13

[Voidus]

Yeah, I mean hopefully this will all make a lot more sense when the next Elantris book comes out because basically we know nothing about ChayShan and only a little about the Dhakor. I was just interested in the idea that it might be about the 3 methods of communication (written, verbal and body language) But yeah it could be form based, I think that it basically depends how ChayShan works so we shall have to see! XD

[Windrunner]

The Investitures on Sel are Form-based. It says so in the essay on the Metallic Arts in the back of the AoL Ars Arcanum.

[Voidus]

Yeah, I've seen that and it is kind of worrying, how then can we explain the chanting from the Dhakor? Because obiously they weren't born with mutated bones

[Windrunner]

The form of the words perhaps? Sound waves going on or something? Maybe the shape their lips make? That one's weird though. Also who knows? Maybe the chanting is there to obscure what is really going on. There is no mention of chanting in the transportation scene that I noticed. The monks stood in a circle, put hands on each other's shoulders, then their bones-symbols glowed and they teleported.

[Voidus]

Hmmm, it's been a while since I've read it but I thought there was some chanting with the transportation. If not then that makes a lot more sense.

[Windrunner]

For your convenience:

Hrathen stood next to Dilaf, remaining perfectly still as instructed. They stood in a circle-fifty Dakhor, Sarene, and Hrathen, with one solitary monk in the center. The Dakhor raised their hands, and the men on either side of Hrathen placed a hand on his shoulder. His heart began to pound as the monks began to glow, the bone inscriptions beneath their skin shining. There was a jarring sensation, and Kae vanished around them.

(skiping a paragraph describing Teoin)

Then group still stood in a circle but Hrathen did not fail to notice that the man in the center was now missing. Hrathen shuddered, images from his youth returning. The monk in the center had been fuel, his flesh and soul burned away-a sacrifice in return for the instantaneous transportation to Teod.

[Voidus]

Ah! Thankyou, well this makes a lot more sense! So the only instance of chanting we have is the growing of the bone structure then, and that could probably be something just to make coordination among the monks generating the symbols.

[Windrunner]

Yes, on the other hand Hrathen says that the chanting had "a strange power to it".

Slight Mistborn & TWoK Spoilers.

I see it as being similar to Allomantic snapping or bonding a spren. You do it once, in order to gain access to a magic system, but then after that, you never need to do it again. Just as Vin didn't have to snap every time she burned a metal, the Dakhor monks don't have to chant each time they use a power, just when they are first growing one of the bones into shape.

Sorry for the tag if everyone's read these books, I just wanted to be careful, because I hate when others inadvertently spoil books for me.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Windrunner

[Voidus]

I had a thought before that it could be related to the Skaze somehow, maybe the chanting directs the skaze which then mutate the bones, but then again they are splinters of dominion so I can't see them being to submissive. hmmmm.

[Windrunner]

Yeah, and also the Skaze influence politics greatly which would be difficult to do from a monastery. Also, as far as we know, the Seons, which appear to be the Skaze's opposites have no similar role in the creation of Elantrians. If only people who had a Seon bound to them could become Elantrians, then I would believe the Skaze are involved on the other side. I just think there should be some similarities between the two magics.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Windrunner

[Voidus]

But then, there is no equivalent of the Shaod for the Dhakor either, they seem able to generate monks on their own.