Propagandist

Don't worry bestie I'm still wrong about Ashyn. I will eat my sock tomorrow-- today's my birthday and I am celebrating it by eating cake and listening to the SLA5 Prologue !

Oh, I totally agree she was. I just don't think this is in the Threnodite system.

But also, Elegy isn't that close to the sun-- if any planet in the Threnodite system is the placement of this world, it's Monody. I dunno. I also would reckon this isn't set in any system we know of.

Yes but at the very least, Elegy is the name of Rebeke's sister; Alas.... it is all for nothing.... I am wrong regardless. I will be eating my socks. I'll make a video of me doing so. I am a Knights Radiant after all. Not gonna eat shardshocks, though.

Elegy is a character name bro please bro please wake for the livestream next week bros p-please... please!!!

No, no. I promised to eat my socks. But this is Ashyn bros please bro please please please we're at a standstill PLEASE!!!!

GUYS IT'S ASHYN BRO I PROMISE BRO IT HAS TO BE ASHYN BRO PLEASE BRO HE SAYS IT AFTER THE READING HE SAYS IT'S SILENCE DIVINE BRO PLEASE BRO NO!!! PLEASE!!!!

Let it be thus!!

I will be betting hard money on Silence Divine. If it isn't I'll eat my socks. Take my word for it.

I know, I was just referring back to the conversation that people were having about Autonomy's Intent vs Ambition or whatever, sorry. It was just me trying to stay relevant. I don't think every shard needs an opposite either, especially if you want all of the Intents to be good overall. I was just throwing my hat in the ring on a better version of opposites. It's not a shard, but the true opposite to Autonomy would be Dependency or Subservience. I do not have one either, again, I think table models for Shards tend to fall apart due to a variety of reasons I outlined above, I was just referring to more concrete opposites or exclusive themes that could help guide how the tables could be constructed. I think we can at least say that Hoid's explanation that these shards are virtues/ideals taken from context that made them good. So like, yeah, on their own, these shards are all pretty much Shard-name for the sake of Shard-name. But it's the Vessel that gives them more direction and guiding power until something like Ruin overtakes the Vessel (or Odium, to a lesser degree). Like, on its own, Virtuosity would probably just spontaneously start creating weird stuff in the cosmere to seek perfect artistic ability. Whimsy would do absolutely whatever. Something like Honor would demand every single entity within its space to swear oaths and adhere to them, and probably kill whoever didn't.

I think basing the rows on words like Natural, Passion, Control and Beauty are a bit odd, as one could very easily see the virtues in each of these simultaneously (Nature's passion is life, or weather extremes, Natural control is autonomy, Beauty in Nature, etc...). I think that it is better to use pure opposites when making these sorts of rows. I.e. a Push or a Pull or like Internal vs External. But I think table-theory for the Shards is always going to come up as poor. I think they can be grouped by fours, but you have to understand that if Dawnshards are Commands, they themselves can't be expanded into Intents. Intents give context for Commands, you feel? I think the rows could actually be natural laws, like push and pull, or passion and logic. Or even maybe a group of prepositions, like "For, With, Against, By." Really, it feels like you can figure out a Dawnshard by reverse-engineering a Shard to the primary Command they'd give to things. But that's impossible, every Shard is an Intent, and you need to go through several actions to fulfill an Intent. Shards are virtues, emotions, traits, thoughts. Those things can't be chalked down to a Command. What in Adonalsium's name is the Command for Whimsy? Whimsify? Feel? Free? There is a large variety you could put here. Honor would want people to Feel the Honor, or be Free from hatred and mistrust from each other. You see what I mean? It's always going to come out as imperfect. Sorry I rambled on here. But you could probably group them unsatisfactorily, always. In any case, to be more relevant to the conversation, Autonomy is negative liberty (protection from restraint of one's personal rights). Theoretical "Unity" wouldn't be the opposite of that. The opposite of Autonomy would probably be something like Endowment, that is, giving others the goods they need in order to have free will and survive.

I am honestly willing to bet money that SP 4 is on Ashyn. He straight up said he had a lot of inspiration for Silence Divine due to the coronavirus, this book is cosmere-relevant and has had a lot of build-up in relation to it, the cover shows flying cities (which we know is how humans on Ashyn live), and the sky is red (it's mentioned in the excerpt he read for it a while back that the sky was red). I am 100% certain it's set on Ashyn and I am open to paying out my 1 dollar gamble on it, if I am wrong.

It's an interesting idea, actually, but I think that a similar process was used instead. It kinda sounds like Dawnshards do kind of act like Cognitive entities, especially if it is a Command (Commands come from one's Spiritual Intent, so it seems like a Cognitive thing). They seem to have limited intelligence like a spren first coming through the Physical Realm (as it reacted to Rysn's decision-making). I hadn't thought of that until now, but there do seem to be clear similarities between all these Cognitive entities and their ability to bond. Not to say a Dawnshard is purely Cognitive, but I think that, viewing it as a Command where a Shard is an Intent makes it seem more of a Cognitive thing. So I think the two concepts could potentially be related, but I feel like there was more to the mural's composition (perhaps the Dawnshard was attracted to it, luring it into the mural-- or put there forcefully?). Because remember, anyone can also trap spren in a gemstone. I also wonder if gold is incorporated in this in some way, or some sort of metal. Could metal Feruchemically store a Cognitive entity? In fact, I wonder if spren were, in some way, inspired by Dawnshards. It's a chicken and the egg argument, though! One of the cute ideas I've had reading this was that the idea of there being 4 Dawnshards refers to the fact that there are four types of Dawnshard and multiple members of them, and they originally acted as spren in the cosmere, making things happen and all of that. But utter speculation, I am completely riffing on the material and have no sources. In short I can see the similarities-- and I think your take is very interesting!

True, true. That was just my personal desire. Brandon does as he pleases.

Hi, so, I have little to back this theory up aside from the fact that Shards can Splinter, and that the vessels used Dawnshards to kill Adonalsium. As well as this simple RAFO'd WoB that doesn't deny the plausibility: Here's my gripe with the idea that there are only four Dawnshards, if we assume that there cannot be multiple of the same Dawnshard. I propose that Dawnshards could be split up, you know? Similar to how Shards themselves can break apart into fragments. I think that of the original vessels, each one had to have held one of these Dawnsplinters. So there are at least sixteen Dawnsplinters that may have been consumed in order for the pieces of Adonalsium to take them on. So, yes, there are four Dawnshards and each have a specific command, but there are sixteen Splinters at the least that carry those same commands. As well, I see a lot of people put the shards into neat little tables based on Dawnshards, but that feels reductive. Every Shard, in a way, uses various Command to fulfill their Intent. They won't fit into these categorizations very well. Not to say that the Shard received wasn't influenced by the Dawnshard you were holding at the time! Because what could, in fact, be true is that there may have NOT been any balance in the Shattering-- there weren't four Dawnsplinters per Dawnshard to make the Shattering a neat, balanced 16 different parts of Adonalsium. Hence why we have some overlap in Intents of Shards, like Ruin and Odium. I think Dawnsplinters were what was killing Yolen-- Hoid refers to too many people getting these unrestrained powers in Rhythm of War. Investiture given to Dawnsplinters is what the Sleepless do not want, naturally. I think that it is basically like how metals work on Scadrial-- the Dawnsplinter you have inside of you is a key for the magic, and when you give it Investiture and have an Intent for what the Dawnshard will do, it will perform that Command, but guided by your Intent. Like if you Intend to kill someone and activate the Change Dawnshard, it will perform an act of Change to kill that person. Hence why I think it is so dangerous-- it may not be nuanced enough, and the amount of Investiture you give it changes how powerful the effect is. In a way, all magical effects are "Dawnshards" -- at least, Commands-- or also better seen as Spells, each one with more nuance than a simple Dawnshard. But that's pure speculation. Going back to overlap in Shards, I can't really tell you all of the Dawnshards and the Ideal sixteen Shards. I have my own theories on what the four Dawnshards are, though, and they're a bit silly and based on, of course, speculation. But that's really all. It's really more of a belief than a theory, I suppose. A man can hope. TL;DR: Splinters of Dawnshards used. That means there may be many people out there today who are Dawnshards... or Dawnsplinters.

I don't care for his wishes. I want him to be an unassuming writer who is seen chilling and writing while outside his window, rust is going down. Maybe he can be seen as a Silverlight scholar. In fact, I want Hoid to ask him what he's writing, only for Hoid to read it and call it crap. I don't want him unceremoniously dying, but unceremoniously living his life. Sees dudes Steelpushed into his window, and then Vin flying out to kill them. Or on Roshar, he's trying to figure out a ketek and a Thunderclast just walks by, looks at him, before the Thunderclast is stopped by a Radiant. Brandon keeps writing. Maybe another shot of him arguing with an editor about not having the money to self-publish and then the King's Drop lands beside them -- then Lift slides in and takes it before he goes to grab it. EDIT: Editor: "Do you think spheres will just fall from the sky?" *King's Drop lands between them* Brandon: "I mean..." and Brandon (gets out of the Cognitive Realm): "They say Scadrial is lovely this time of year-" *Wax flies by, there's smoke climbing in the air nearby-- city is in chaos*

Hi! This is my first time ever posting on the Shard, I've been playing around with this theory ever since I learned about the Ashyn magic system. As a sort of preamble, I want to first just describe the overarching idea of this theory. 1) Voidbinding is a viral-based "hemalurgy" or spiritweb-stabbing magic. 2) The Shin have or had Voidbinding, practiced or no. As in, they are capable of being infected by a sort of viral disease empowered by Odium that attaches to one's spiritweb to give them power. Or at least, I believe that, originally, Voidbinding would do this. 3) Ashynians originally hoped to invade Roshar with the disease. 4) The Heralds were or are Voidbinders. We can blame the Ashynian magic system for their insanity, as well as Szeth's. Yes, okay. Now that we have my probably rather insane ideas. Let's dig in! Also a brief reminder all of this is insane speculation and a lot of it is me extrapolating information. I want to explain what I mean by Voidbinding, and how I describe the magic in this system. First, Odium sends a sort of proto-spren (a splinter of himself, potentially more like proto-Unmades) to attach themselves to a host. In order to "bond", the proto-spren begins a strong infection of the spiritweb in a way much like Hemalurgy. I believe this magic system was inspired by trunelife and the Sho Del on Yolen. A sort of extraterrestrial magic system that is capable of infecting anyone but also able to move between planets without forming a stable Connection. Essentially, it would corrupt as it spread to grant species of people incredible power, only to also infect them with Odium's powerful emotional control. Indeed, it could also explain why Ambition was first to go-- the Shattering was probably accompanied by a Dawnshard for Change to forcibly create a new power for himself. At the height of the system, Ashynians could use unrestrained Surges that were modeled after Yolen's own magic system (I also operate on the belief that Surgebinding comes from Yolen-- at least as a basic concept). I think Odium messed up a bit, and what ended up being created was a sort of Hemalurgic spike that'd destroy the spiritweb once it left the host, if it ever did. Indeed, we can later see how the influence of an Unmade on an area can disrupt one's spiritweb; I forgot the WOB, but it essentially stated that there was a relation to hearing screaming voices and Unmade influence. As a secondary theory, I also want to say that original Fused cognitive shadows are those who were initially Voidbinded. Essentially, they became infected enough that the disease attached to their spirits, making them Invested (Infected/Invested, same thing) enough to remain as Cognitive Shadows by Odium's desire. Of course, the constant cycle of rebirth has made the deeply spiritual disease continuously tear open their sanities. And then, and I know I don't have any information on this, once Odium realized that the humans were turning on him, he rescinded his powers from the cognitive shadows he had as his champions and turned them all into the Unmade we know today-- now Frankenstein's monsters of living beings. The remnants of this magical disease left on Ashyn has now evolved due to it not having access to Odium's power, now requiring the full absorption of the health of Ashynian people to survive. 1: The Shin had/have Voidbinding. Yes, I'm sorry, right off the bat I need to say that I think the people of Shinovar have Voidbinders, and that we'll finally see it in the next book. Not only is Shinovar the place most unlike the rest of Roshar, and due to it also being the one place where the Ashynians were originally supposed to be, I believe them to be inherently connected to the Voidbinding magic system. At the very least, the Shin have proven to be repeatedly war-like in the past, perhaps a bit Odious, at least to me. The fact that it is more of a throwaway line leads me to want to place even more emphasis on it. I think the fact that the Shin even attempted any sort of excursion into Roshar despite being isolationist in the present leads me to believe a large amount of influence was swaying their decision-making. Of course, it is also important, I believe, to note that the Shin also intone that there is a way to speak with stones in the same way that the Willshapers do (at least, Venli was able to do). Furthermore, Ashyn's magic had changed, and I think it is also different with the Shin-- especially since Odium seemed to have shifted his desires long after to focusing upon the Fused (which, by the fact that they kind of forcibly bond with beings, implies they, too, were kind of going through the motions of Voidbinding). Indeed, it seems odd that the Shin would have access to any sort of powers-- especially in going to reclaim the Honorblades for themselves, and having what seems to be quite a bit of cosmere awareness. So yes, they know a lot about what truly happened on Ashyn and the movement to Roshar, though the information is not completely accurate. Furthermore, without strong access to Stormlight (at least it was stated they don't use it much), I wanna assume they draw upon Voidlight to perform their magic. The Unmade influencing the Shin leaders is most likely also giving them these illness-like bonds, binding to their emotions and giving them powers. This influence probably leaves tears in the spiritweb, and Szeth's being in the higher echelon of Shin society would have inevitably given him access to the Ashynian illness. Indeed, this would leave a tear in his spiritweb, which would set him up for a Nahel bond, yada yada. 3: Ashynian offensive Okay, now that I've set up that the Shin could have this magic system's remnants floating around, I move to also explain how an invasion of Roshar could have went down. The humans crash down in Shinovar. The singers gave them the space to work with, but the Ashynians, probably influenced by the Ambition-side of their diseases, sought to spread out much further. To become Connected to Roshar, the Ashynian viruses spread out and infect singers left and right, subtly nudging them to Odium while also gaining a Connection to Roshar. I think it also may help to explain how the humans began to wane off of Odium's influence soon thereafter, probably due to the kindness of the singers, while the violence of their diseases affected the singers negatively. The two sides shifted due to the initial bonding of power. I think the reason why people think that mental disorders are requisite for a Nahel bond start here-- where the humans were afflicted with disorders upon removing themselves from the viral diseases. 4: The Heralds were Voidbinders I feel like this one goes without saying, but I want to say how it pertains to their insanity. If the Ashynian disease was a hemalurgic-sort of tear in the spiritweb, then anyone who forcibly removes themselves from it will become massively open to the influence of any Shard or Investiture like a spren. I don't think that the effects of it would kill the user, as it would mostly have torn at sanity and sense of identity. As such, it would explain why the Heralds and their agreement with Honor was formed; to fill in the holes left by them removing themselves from Ashyn's magic, Honor granted them Honorblades to mimic the powers they had on Ashyn. These blades, bonding with the spirit, allowed them to be generally safe from the influence of the Ashynian viruses as they fought against Odium. The Oathpact, being formed, hopefully was to also be used to give them sanity. However, these holes would only grow with more stress upon the spirit, and they began to become less and less sane. We can see today how most of the Heralds have ran away from their original personality traits, or have regressed. I think Nale is a special case because he was able to bond with a highspren; the opening of his spiritweb was filled up again by him also bonding himself with a spren and flying up to the Fifth Ideal to avoid the utter insanity associated with the savantism gained from being an Voidbinder. Furthermore, I think Taln was able to generally avoid giving in because he was both insanely based and badass but also because he never had the Ashynian sickness. He wasn't already broken down by the powers of the sickness, so he was generally able to avoid being torn apart as easily-- and in fact his connection to Honor was the strongest. I think he's still suffering from insanity induced by torture, but the fact that he maintained his oath is telling of a lack of Odium's effect. Sorry for making this so long. I have a lot of ways I could go with this theory, like, I'll probably post more later. But I just wanted to get this out there and discuss what I had made. Thanks