Zinnny Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 From my understanding, the Returned, Heralds, and Shades are all cognitive shadows. The Returned need a regular infusion of investiture (Breath) to sustain themselves. Do the other Cognitive Shadows need something similar; such as the Heralds needing a regular exposure to stormlight/highstorms. This lead me to a couple questions: What would happen if a Herald went a long time without touching stormlight? What would happen to a Herald or Shade if they went to Nalthis? Would they have a "super breath" like a Returned. With shades being drawn to blood on Threnody; is that a form of investiture that sustains them? We know that Stormlight can sustain a Returned ... Spoiler Vasher How would that work on other systems... such as the White Sand system (sorry forget that name). With the Heralds needing to return to Braize to sustain the Oathpact, could any Cognitive Shadow take their place? Suchs as a Returned, Kelsier, etc. Just thought I'd throw this out there... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 9 minutes ago, Zinnny said: What would happen if a Herald went a long time without touching stormlight? Without their Honorblades, the Heralds lose the ability to invest, so the returned requirement does not seem to apply to them. (mobile won't let me fix my formatting so this is the WoB on the bottom. 13 minutes ago, Zinnny said: How would that work on other systems... such as the White Sand system (sorry forget that name). The Sand harnesses investiture from the son, so a Returned may be able to simply go outside. http://www.theoryland.comintvmain.php?i=1048#4 Quote RYBAL Can the Heralds Surgebind without their Blades and if not are they under the same restrictions that others are? BRANDON SANDERSON The Heralds without their Blades are incapable of the powers you're familiar with. It doesn't mean there aren't other things they can do. The Returned requirement seems to apply specifically to them because of the nature of the divine breath anchoring them to their bodies. The Heralds also have bodies, but we don't know the mechanics of how that was done. Most Cognitive Shadows seem to be Cognitive beings that don't have such a requirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Calderis said: The Sand harnesses investiture from the son, so a Returned may be able to simply go outside. We have WoB that Taldain would have been another good place for a Returned to go to obtain 'easy Investiture', were it not inaccessible right now so it probably is as easy as 'walking outside'. And if it requires manipulating the Invested sand in some way, well, we still know that it's easy to get Investiture out of the system and that a Returned could figure it out without much trouble. 2 hours ago, Zinnny said: What would happen if a Herald went a long time without touching stormlight? What would happen to a Herald or Shade if they went to Nalthis? Would they have a "super breath" like a Returned. With shades being drawn to blood on Threnody; is that a form of investiture that sustains them? With the Heralds needing to return to Braize to sustain the Oathpact, could any Cognitive Shadow take their place? Suchs as a Returned, Kelsier, etc. 1. As mentioned, they've gone for ~4500 years without Stormlight so Heralds clearly don't need a regular infusion of Investiture in the same way that a Returned does. Whether this one week lifespan is an intended part of the system (keeping a Returned alive perpetuates the Intent of Endowment) or if it's a result of trying to do something with the system that it's not ideally set up for (like, say, making Shardblades) we don't know. But given the great variety we've seen among Cognitive Shadows or CS-like entities we probably shouldn't assume that what applies to one type applies to all of them. Brandon has mentioned that the term is an ambiguous one in the cosmere. Quote Q: Have we seen cameos of Heralds on other Shardworlds? Brandon: The Heralds are tied to the system by the magic that permeates them. They could not leave. It’s part of the magic. Some would call them Cognitive Shadows, right? Whether they are or not. ‘Cognitive Shadow’ is a very ambiguous term in the Cosmere. It means, basically your soul-- Investiture replaced your soul, and permeated your soul, and your soul continues to exist, but you are usually Invested with something, that’s tied, and you’re basically like pure Investiture then. You’re tied to the thing you’re Connected to. Most of the things that you’re gonna see like that, travelling is going to be very difficult, unless you know how to do it. You have seen people do it. 2. Breath-effects are baked into the system in Nalthis so anyone who obtains Breath (and anyone can) could gain the advantages of it but you shouldn't develop BioChroma-like powers just by going there. Brandon hasn't said this directly as far as I know but it's implied when he says that if you were to wave a magic wand and make someone from another world suddenly able to Awaken, they could not use any Investiture they already had to do Awakening. If you can't Awaken with what you've already got, you shouldn't be getting any perks either since they go hand in hand. 3. We don't know. Shades do seem to have degrees of cohesion but we don't know what causes this. 5. Probably not. We don't know the mechanics of the Oathpact yet to debate this kind of thing with much confidence, but Brandon has said that the original parties to it were Honor and the Heralds, Odium not included. Substitutions might not be accepted by the system and of couse, we have WoB that the Oathpact isn't as broken as the nine seem to think (or would like it to be) so they probably couldn't have someone 'tag in'. Edited July 26, 2017 by Weltall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightlord M. Alhstrom Posted July 27, 2017 Report Share Posted July 27, 2017 1 hour ago, Weltall said: We have WoB that Taldain would have been another good place for a Returned to go to obtain 'easy Investiture', were it not inaccessible right now so it probably is as easy as 'walking outside'. And if it requires manipulating the Invested sand in some way, well, we still know that it's easy to get Investiture out of the system and that a Returned could figure it out without much trouble. Now I'm wondering if that would merge well with the concept of getting light from Taldain's sun, despite not being on Taldain. I know there is a WoB about how it would technically be possible to use Taldain's magic at any place from which you can see Taldain's sun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Extesian Posted July 27, 2017 Report Share Posted July 27, 2017 Sorry @Zinnny I just read this, I posted a theory related to it here. Basically my theory is that other Cognitive Shadows don't need investiture regularly to stay alive. I think it's a built-in feature in the case of Returned, because of the Shard Endowment. Endowment is about giving. Therefore not only does someone (probably) need to be a giving person to be offered the chance to Return, and not only does Endowment need to give to that person - but that person, the Returned, to stay alive, needs someone else to give to them. It's a cycle of giving Endowment wants. I don't think it's a realmatic reason that applies to other Cognitive Shadows (though I could be wrong). I think it's a deliberate feature so that only a Returned that convinces others to give to them will survive. It creates entire cultures centred around the concept of giving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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