72 replies to this topic

[leinton]

So, I've been thinking a lot about Slivers and Splinters since starting the Mistborn reread, namely because the Lord Ruler and Vin both being Slivers. So, they are the two examples that we know are Slivers. As for Splinters, we know that the Returned are Splinters, right? And several of us are assuming that the Seons and Skaze are, but we don't have enough info for either to help us right now.

The major difference I can see between them is that the Slivers held... maybe a bigger piece of the Shard in question? More importantly, though, is that the Slivers both knew that they had godlike power, and that godlike power was awesome. I mean, both of them did something to change the world. The Returned, on the other hand, seem to have some small godlike power (namely, they can see the future), but can't really control their power. Also, the only reason they know that they are gods is because people tell them. Lightsong spends all of his life as a Returned believing that he isn't a god until he actually sees the event that he unknowingly foretold.

So what I'm thinking is, Slivers are more powerful and more aware of their powers. Splinters have more power than ordinary magic users do, but other than that, they seem relatively human, and are unaware of any cosmere related things.

So, what do you all think? Are there other Splinters or Slivers we know about that I missed? Am I totally off base? I'm a little rusty with Warbreaker in particular, but I think I got everything we know.

[CrazyRioter]

I think the spren are Splinters too, and I know there's a couple of people that agree with me.

[leinton]

I haven't made up my mind about the spren yet. I feel we don't know enough yet to really make a decision on them, but it's a good possibility certainly.

[Puck]

I like the quantity theory, however I feel like Brandon's phrasing implies a qualitative difference (the way in which they're linked to a Shard) between a Splinter and a Sliver.


For instance, here's the bit of data that keeps jamming me up (if only because of how vague English can be at times):

Note that we have seen temporal abilities in the Cosmere before. Most of the time these are related directly to the pure essence of a Shard or to a Splinter. http://www.tor.com/b...derson-answered

My confusion comes from the phrasing of "to the pure essence of a Shard or a to a Splinter" Now, is that an inclusive or an exclusive "or"?
- "the pure essence of a Shard - which is to say, a Splinter" = a Splinter is the pure essence of a Shard
- "either to the pure essence of a Shard or to a Splinter" = there is some significant difference between a Splinter and, say, a huge pool of Preservation
The first answer would be helpful in clarifying the nature of a Splinter (which is the definition we're most vague about), so that'd be good. If the second meaning is true, it brings with it other questions. If there is a difference, what is it? How is a Splinter not the pure essence of a Shard? What is diluting/filtering it?
Stuff like this keeps tripping me up. I get the feeling that it's more than how much of a Shard the individual has.

I am clearly over analyzing here. Feel free to smite.

[Joe ST]

Any though that the distinction may be across the Realms? or the number of realms that they are connected to?

Joe

[leinton]

Well, I don't think either Vin or the Lord Ruler had temporal abilities outside of burning temporal metals, most notably atium. Maybe Slivers don't have the power to see the future? Or maybe neither Ruin or Preservation can see the future very well.

[Chaos]

Well, I don't think either Vin or the Lord Ruler had temporal abilities outside of burning temporal metals, most notably atium. Maybe Slivers don't have the power to see the future? Or maybe neither Ruin or Preservation can see the future very well.

But Preservation created the Terris prophecies, which were ultimately fulfilled. That's no coincidence. He had some serious power in seeing the future.

That's an excellent distinction that I didn't see before, Puck. Why would he need to signify a difference? As far as we knew, a Splinter is a pure essence of a Shard, but clearly we're mistaken.

[CrazyRioter]

I think it's a matter of Vin and the LR just not having time to learn HOW to see the future. Neither held the power for very long.

[Puck]

But Preservation created the Terris prophecies, which were ultimately fulfilled. That's no coincidence. He had some serious power in seeing the future.

Confirmed by Brandon:

"The Terris prophesies were created by Preservation before he attempte dhis imprisonment. He knew that he wouldn't be able to do much for theworld after he did what he did, and he foresaw a LOT of what was to come."

"Does a Duralumin enchanced atium burn allow a person to see significantly farther into the future. ... if you could tell us what he saw that would be awesome. Did something he saw make him not want to avoid Marshes strike.
There is much here that I can't say, but I'll give as much as I can. Elend saw Preservation's ultimate plan, and Elend's own part in it. What he saw made him realize he didn't want to kill Marsh, and that his own death would actually help save the world. Like a master chess player, he suddenly saw and understand every possible move his enemy could make. He saw that Ruin was check-mated, because there was one thing that Ruin was not willing to do. Something that both Elend and Vin could do, if needed. And it's what they did.
So, in answer to your question, Elend stayed his hand."

Some SERIOUS ability to read the shattering glass, indeed

[zas678]

My understanding is that a Sliver is someone who once held a major part of the shard. Confirmed slivers are Vin, TLR, and Kelsier (he picks up Preservation after Preservation's death, but before Vin becomes Preservation). I believe this means that they are more "in tune" with that shard. Look at how much TLR wanted things to stay the same after he came to power. Sazed mentions the Well being an "attuning force" to help them those that Ascend be able to become the Shard.

A Splinter is a significant portion of a Shard that they give out (or maybe die into). It seems to be mainly in the Spiritual Realm (but then again, that's mostly just for Returned. The suspected ones could be different).

Here is Brandon on Goodreads- note that I actually originally meant to put Splinter, but I'm know kind of glad that I didn't.

Zas678@46 wrote: "Also, would the Elantrians and the Lerasium-mistings be considered Slivers? Or is just the Lord Ruler and Vin Slivers(Via the Well)? Or do you need more power to be considered a Sliver?"

Elantrians are not slivers. Mistborn trilogy spoiler warnings follow! The Lord Ruler was indeed a Sliver. So was Vin. For the rest, I would say probably not.

What defines an actual Sliver of Adonalsium is not as clear-cut as you might think. It's a term that in-universe people who study this have applied to various existences and states. Every single person on the world of Scadrial has a bit of Leras in them—a bit of the power of Preservation. Every single person has a bit of Ati in them. There's a certain threshold where these scholars would call you a Sliver of Adonalsium. But I would say that any regular Misting is probably not a Sliver. A full Lerasium Mistborn is getting closer, but people who have held one of the powers are what would probably be termed a Sliver by the definitions. If you hold all the power that makes you a Shard, but the Lord Ruler held a little bit of it and then let it go. From then on they referred to that change in him—the residue, what was left—as a Sliver. When he held it he became the Shard for a short time, and Vin was a Shard for a short time. After Vin gave up the power, what Kelsier is at the end of the trilogy—that's a Sliver of Adonalsium.

[zas678]

Alright. I'm double posting here, but that's because I don't want to start a new thread.

So. We've received information that WoK, Elantris, and Warbreaker have Splinters in them, but Mistborn does not. The new definition that we have is that splinters hold some of the power of the shard, but they aren't human.

So who do you think the splinters are? Honorspren, Seons/Skaze, and the Divine Breath that Returned have? Or something else?

[KChan]

Didn't I just read on here somewhere that the Returned Breaths are confirmed Splinters? Anyways, I think it's also likely that the Seons are as well, especially since it's mentioned so often that no one can explain them. If even the Elantrians couldn't understand how they worked or where they came from, what better explanation do you need than that they're fragments of a Shard?

[CrazyRioter]

the Returned Breaths are confirmed Splinters, and yeah, i think it's pretty likely that Seons/Skaze (Brandon called Skaze "evil Seons") are Splinters. And the spren that form bonds with people (honorspren an the symbolhead spren and whatever other types there might be) are probably Splinters as well.

Edited by CrazyRioter, 19 March 2011 - 11:15 PM.

[KChan]

It's likely; everyone who's seen Syl remarks on how she's not like other spren. And I think the name Honorspren is particularly significant. After all, there are no Preservomancers on Scadrial, to give a really dumb-sounding example.

[zas678]

Seons could just be the product of a very very complicated Aon. Sort of like how Nightblood is from breaths. (Note that I do agree with you, I'm just presenting an opposing viewpoint for fun).

Then again, I believe that while Seons are connected and "supplied" with spiritual energy by the Dor, Nightblood doesn't have that connection because he's man-made. Instead of being created by a shard, he was created out of splinters of men (Breaths).

Wait a second. The only problem with that is that Seons didn't go crazy when Elantris fell. In fact, they only went crazy when their person becomes an Elantrian. Maybe, instead of being connected through Elantris, they are connected directly to either the Shard or the Power of creation. Hmm.

And yes, the divine breath is confirmed.

[KChan]

Well, look at the other suspected (and confirmed) Splinters:

• Returned Breaths - bonded to a specific Returned, obviously
• Honorspren - bonded to humans (Radiants?)
• Shadespren/Truthspren/Symbolheads - bonded to (presumably) Soulcasters

Seons (and presumably, by extension, Skaze) bond to humans in a similar (though still unique) way. Perhaps that does something to them - like a buffer, perhaps - so only the ones bonded to the cursed Elantrians are affected.

[Chaos]

I'm not so certain honorspren (or any spren that have bonded with someone) are Splinters. Maybe, but I'm not espousing it anytime soon. I'm not convinced Seons and Skaze are Splinters either. I agree that theory has merit, but I'm holding off because I don't know enough to be certain of their natures.

Let's assume Syl, as honorspren, is a Splinter. Honorspren, when they are not bound to a person, return to being regular spren. Does this mean they are no longer Splinters? That's silly.

I don't know of the mechanics of Seons, either. Do Seons stop existing when their master dies? I don't know enough about "Passing" a Seon to say.

It's entirely possible that Shardblades are Splinters, dude. It's pretty dang powerful, so it's a possibility. The only confirmed Splinter is that Divine Breath, right? It's a segment of a Shard's power. It can be moved from person to person. I can re-Invest that Divine Breath into someone else. Now, the transference aspect could simply be related to Endowment's Intent, but honorspren do not feel in the same class as a Divine breath. Divine breath is not sentient. All of these other "potential" Splinters are. This does not feel right to me.

Tangent: One could argue that a divine Breath caused something to be sentient, as in, keeping the Cognitive aspect of the Returned alive. Similarly, Kaladin is "giving" Syl sentience. Now, we don't know the mechanics of the creation of Seons, but it probably requires some Cognitive input. I'm completely undermining my point above that spren aren't Splinters, but whatever.

If Seons are stealing their masters "Cognitive" power, well, I'd say there's some credence to that idea. Same with masters dying without Passing the Seon, so the Seon dies. Raoden didn't die, but he was messed up, and it messed up Ien.

Like I said, we don't know enough about Seons to say. Though "Pass the Seon" sounds like a fun children's game.

[zas678]

Like I said, we don't know enough about Seons to say. Though "Pass the Seon" sounds like a fun children's game.

Even if you can only play it once. It's the game of a lifetime!

[Chaos]

On a more serious note, my random idea of Shardblades being Splinters should probably be given merit. No theory (to my knowledge) explains what they are, and this is a possibility.

[CrazyRioter]

No I don't think the honorspren "stop" being Splinters hen they aren't attached to anybody, they aren't ordinary spren even if they act like it when they aren't bonded to somebody.