TheOneKEA

Baltimore Signing

23 posts in this topic

I was fortunate to be in line at Brandon's book signing near Baltimore and got to ask him a question.

I asked him if it was possible to enter or exit Shadesmar in interplanetary space. He laughed nervously for several seconds with a look that suggested "Uh-oh!" and replied (as best as I can remember):

I would say no. The Cognitive Realm does exist there, but Shadesmar is a special case.

I also referenced the recent Q&A and this post, and speculated that the reason why the original poster thought Wax's sister was a duralumin ferring was because of Wax's comment that he did not feel any strong emotions as a result of her death. I told Brandon that the poster must have thought that she was deliberately suppressing her Connection with Wax by using Feruchemy. I said that I didn't need a yes or no answer from him, and he replied that he would neither confirm nor deny my statement and would only agree that it was very interesting.

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That is awesome on both accounts. Seriously.

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That's super confusing... Is anyone else reading it as there's some difference between Shadesmar and the Cognitive Realm?

Also, interesting about Telsin... Now I understand that question XD

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I always thought that Shadesmar was different, maybe a subset or a localized region.

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That is awesome on both accounts. Seriously.

You're welcome! The answer to my first question raises some very interesting avenues of investigation regarding Shadesmar and its boundaries. Brandon's reply suggested to me that Shadesmar might have boundaries based on the influence of a planet's gravity well. He might have said something else but I don't remember it.

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That's super confusing... Is anyone else reading it as there's some difference between Shadesmar and the Cognitive Realm?

Also, interesting about Telsin... Now I understand that question XD

I would guess that, akin to "space is (Cognitively) empty" as posited in this thread, there is no coherent Cognitive identity in interplanetary space, leaving that space without a proper "location" in Shadesmar. While Roshar as a planet--or at least the regions within it--likely has a certain Cognitive presence, defined by the all the beings living there, empty space most likely does not. So particle 5000144+65464 does have a Cognitive aspect, it just doesn't relate in any special way with anything else around it, so no coherent "landscape" exists.

It may also be the case that a living presence is necessary to form these kinds of regional identities, so a clump of rocks in space without anything observing it wouldn't have it's own coherent location in Shadesmar, despite being "related" by gravity and proximity and whatnot.

Edited by Kurkistan
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If Shadesmar was only on the planets that would make interplanetary travel a lot easier. It would take a long time to wander across the void.

http://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/circles/u6l3e.cfm

Gravity becomes negligible 50,000 kilometers from earth, aka 7 earth radius' away from earth. It halves around 3000 kilometers away from the surface.

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If Shadesmar was only on the planets that would make interplanetary travel a lot easier. It would take a long time to wander across the void.

http://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/circles/u6l3e.cfm

Gravity becomes negligible 50,000 kilometers from earth, aka 7 earth radius' away from earth. It halves around 3000 kilometers away from the surface.

If it is gravity, then what you're really talking about is a set of Spiritual connections. I suppose the Spiritual Realm could define Shadesmar, as I somewhat obliquely suggested in my above post.

Edited by Kurkistan
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If it is gravity, then what you're really talking about is a set of Spiritual connections. I suppose the Spiritual Realm could define Shadesmar, as I somewhat obliquely posited in my above post.

Indeed, outside the spiritual influence of the planet there is no Shade of the spiritual realm to make Shadesmar. I do wander what the cut off point is.

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Indeed, outside the spiritual influence of the planet there is no Shade of the spiritual realm to make Shadesmar. I do wander what the cut off point is.

I don't think it's that simple. I think it's more so when something is "seen" as part of the planet (or, as I said, possibly even just a region on it) than some mechanistic description of its physical proximity. I have learned, much to my chagrin, that it is not wise to be too mechanistic in the Cosmere.

My thinking is that it may be similar to how stones become a wall in TES. It is not until they are together for a period of time, until they are seen as and "think of themselves" as one coherent entity, that they become so in truth in the Cognitive Realm. So a comet passing by Roshar won't be a part of it in Shadesmar at any point, while it's moon or a captured-asteroid might be.

From this, it follows that, if an asteroid full of life crashed into Roshar, it might not immediately be incorprated into Shadesmar as we know it, instead spending some time as an "island" in Shadesmar before it is Cognitively seen as part of the planet.

Edited by Kurkistan
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I don't think it's that simple. I think it's more so when something is "seen" as part of the planet (or, as I said, possibly even just a region on it) than some mechanistic description of its physical proximity. I have learned, much to my chagrin, that it is not wise to be too mechanistic in the Cosmere.

My thinking is that it may be similar to how stones become a wall in TES. It is not until they are together for a period of time, until they are seen as and "think of themselves" as one coherent entity, that they become so in truth in the Cognitive Realm. So a comet passing by Roshar won't be a part of it in Shadesmar at any point, while it's moon or a captured-asteroid might be.

From this, it follows that, if an asteroid full of life crashed into Roshar, it might not immediately be incorprated into Shadesmar as we know it, instead spending some time as an "island" in Shadesmar before it is Cognitively seen as part of the planet.

I was referring to this statement, which indicated a direct effect of gravity on whether something was part of Shadesmar.

You're welcome! The answer to my first question raises some very interesting avenues of investigation regarding Shadesmar and its boundaries. Brandon's reply suggested to me that Shadesmar might have boundaries based on the influence of a planet's gravity well. He might have said something else but I don't remember it.

TheOneKea, are you saying Brandon suggested that gravity determined what was part of Shadesmar or that you guessed from what he said that gravity was part of it?

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^I read that as Kea's own interpretation, rather than hidden knowledge, or perhaps as a hint at gravity mattering, but at least not mechanistically so. I suppose we'll wait and see for clarification.

Looking at my posts, actually, it appears that I've straying from a real Spiritual description of Shadesmar, and more into a purely Cognitive one. If you want to be more Spiritual, you could describe Shadesmar as made up of objects which share sufficiently strong Spiritual relations, in this case the relation of being within Roshar's gravity-well. In that case, Shadesmar, while being in the Cognitive Realm, would in fact be structured by Spiritual relations.

Edited by Kurkistan
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I have long been a lurker on these forums (a long time), but I thought I would break my silence as I happened to be at the Baltimore signing. I thought about calling out to see if anyone there was a member of the 17th Shard forums (I figured there would be a few).

I did ask about Mistborn: Birthright and apparently it is going to make it's way to the next generation of consoles, so it should be a very nice representation. I did find out that Brandon is still writing 100% of the dialogue (there were some rumors a while back that he wouldn't be) and that it is well underway.

Do not mean to derail the Shadesmar conversation. Just thought this would be a great time and thread to add my first of many posts!

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I have long been a lurker on these forums (a long time), but I thought I would break my silence as I happened to be at the Baltimore signing. I thought about calling out to see if anyone there was a member of the 17th Shard forums (I figured there would be a few).

I did ask about Mistborn: Birthright and apparently it is going to make it's way to the next generation of consoles, so it should be a very nice representation. I did find out that Brandon is still writing 100% of the dialogue (there were some rumors a while back that he wouldn't be) and that it is well underway.

Do not mean to derail the Shadesmar conversation. Just thought this would be a great time and thread to add my first of many posts!

The main reason I go to these threads is to get little titbits of information like this so thank you for your contribution. I upvoted.

I am looking forward to playing the game a lot.

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@Blair

Yeah, thanks for this. I'd been assuming that the game had died quietly in the night, given the lack of news since its announcement. Welcome to the forums, by the way! You can head over to the Introduction section for a proper welcome and/or a cookie/waffle/spike to the face. :D

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I was referring to this statement, which indicated a direct effect of gravity on whether something was part of Shadesmar.

TheOneKea, are you saying Brandon suggested that gravity determined what was part of Shadesmar or that you guessed from what he said that gravity was part of it?

It was a guess on my part. His response suggested to me that Shadesmar's boundaries are related to a planet's three aspects.

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^I know you can't remember exact words, but do you remember enough to paraphrase his response as a whole?

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^I know you can't remember exact words, but do you remember enough to paraphrase his response as a whole?

The quote in the OP was his whole response, as best as I could remember it.

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^So, just to be sure, when you say "his response suggested to me that Shadesmar's boundaries are related to a planet's three aspects", the "suggested to me" part is your own interpretation of the what you recall as quoted in the OP, and not a vague recollection of Brandon saying something?

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^So, just to be sure, when you say "his response suggested to me that Shadesmar's boundaries are related to a planet's three aspects", the "suggested to me" part is your own interpretation of the what you recall as quoted in the OP, and not a vague recollection of Brandon saying something?

Yes, that's correct. As I alluded to in this thread, I agree with those who say that the time bubbles that Pulsers and Sliders create are anchored to the planet because of the Allomancer's three aspects interacting with the planet's three aspects, including the effects of gravity and the inaccuracy of claiming that the bubbles "don't move". Extrapolating that factoid, I realized that the Shadesmar is clearly integrated very tightly with both the Physical and Cognitive aspects of the Cosmere's planets, so I pulled the threads in my mind and reached the conclusion (now confirmed by Brandon) that when you go beyond the influence of a planet's three aspects, you go beyond a boundary of Shadesmar.

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Yes, that's correct. As I alluded to in this thread, I agree with those who say that the time bubbles that Pulsers and Sliders create are anchored to the planet because of the Allomancer's three aspects interacting with the planet's three aspects, including the effects of gravity and the inaccuracy of claiming that the bubbles "don't move". Extrapolating that factoid, I realized that the Shadesmar is clearly integrated very tightly with both the Physical and Cognitive aspects of the Cosmere's planets, so I pulled the threads in my mind and reached the conclusion (now confirmed by Brandon) that when you go beyond the influence of a planet's three aspects, you go beyond a boundary of Shadesmar.

Okay, we can work with that. I just wanted to be 100% sure of what our foundation was before we went off into theory-land. As it is, your interpretation may well be correct. Sorry if I came across as a bit badgery there, ;) it's probably a consequence of never being able to go to a signing myself. :(

Also, I'd just like to note that I'm glad my frame of reference thoughts resulted in something as useful as your theory/question/answer: all it had really done up until then is do terrible things to my FTL thread when I thought too hard.

Edited by Kurkistan
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I was at the signing and I asked him,(and I'm paraphrasing now because I didn't get much sleep before or since) "If Hoid would be printed as an MtG card, what would be his color and converted mana cost?" Brandon said he would be a "Straight Blue Planswalker" and "expensive" "probably 7 to 9 mana 4-6 colorless UUU". I should have pressured him for a sample loyalty ability or something... but the line was NUTZ.

For thoes who don't understand the magic color pie/ philosophy of each color, there are plenty of essays online, but without me explaining all the info; to me it means he has real power in craftiness and trickery (like we didn't know that before) ;) But that tells us he's not Blue-White or Blue-Black just "Strait Blue", which is important. And as planeswalkers go it puts him up in at least Nicol Bolas' level. Jace is a small fry to a Blue plansewalker with Hoid's level of expertise.

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I was at the signing and I asked him,(and I'm paraphrasing now because I didn't get much sleep before or since) "If Hoid would be printed as an MtG card, what would be his color and converted mana cost?" Brandon said he would be a "Straight Blue Planswalker" and "expensive" "probably 7 to 9 mana 4-6 colorless UUU". I should have pressured him for a sample loyalty ability or something... but the line was NUTZ.

For thoes who don't understand the magic color pie/ philosophy of each color, there are plenty of essays online, but without me explaining all the info; to me it means he has real power in craftiness and trickery (like we didn't know that before) ;)/> But that tells us he's not Blue-White or Blue-Black just "Strait Blue", which is important. And as planeswalkers go it puts him up in at least Nicol Bolas' level. Jace is a small fry to a Blue plansewalker with Hoid's level of expertise.

Blue spells and abilities focus on "borrowing" opponents' cards and drawing the right card at the

right time. With the power of blue, call wizards and weird beasts of the air and oceans to serve you...For the most part, blue likes to take it slow. It despises hasty actions and is also very big on deception, cloaking the truth and concealing its true motives.

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