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Kurkistan

Traversing the Borders of Time Bubbles

24 posts in this topic

So, as some of you may know, I posted a "Definitive" (cough cough) Allomantic FTL Theory awhile back. I'm still working on how to achieve FTL, but a smaller thought (which may lead to FTL in the end) has come to mind just now.

In-between being ruthlessly gutted by that foul entity known as SCIENCE, I tried to analyze exactly what happened when coherent objects were moving while partially inside and partially outside of a time bubble.

In that thread, I theorized that the object retained its shape through the entire process, with the parts transiting the edge the bubble accelerating/decelerating (depending on the bubble) as they switch "time zones" and so pulling/pushing the rest of the object and therefore increasing or decreasing the speed of the object as a whole.

Satsuoni kindly pointed out that that would result in nigh-instantaneous infinite acceleration (that's calc for you), the effects of which, I surmise, would mirror this description, and which we most definitely don't see in AoL.

That still leaves us with the problem of how exactly the borders of time bubbles work, and what happens to coherent object that pass through them. In the interim, I have come up with two different solutions, which I will hopefully here explain satisfactorily and maybe even bring back to FTL or other practical applications.

The Distension Theory:

It's been theorized that the entire object transits simultaneously when it contacts the edge of the bubble, which I initially found somewhat absurd, but a thought has occurred to me as to how it could work in practice.

Suppose that the edge of the bubble is not well defined, and that objects entering or exiting the bubble actually "distend" its surface (like a real bubble, as it were). When the bubble "pops", then the object which, up to this point, has been distending the bubble's surface is suddenly on the other side of the border with the bubble resuming its normal, roughly spherical dimensions.

So if you throw a spear out of a bubble, it "bulges out" until enough of the spear (measured as a proportion of mass? Of length? As just a set amount of distension that any given bubble can support?) has gone far enough away from the center of the bubble, at which point the bubble's surface retracts until it no longer encompasses any of the the spear, returning to its normal dimensions after the spear has completely gone it's own way back into real time.

This raises the interesting question of whether the "distension" of the bubble would reach objects near the spear on its way out, as opposed to only affecting the spear itself. If a grain of sand was 1mm away from the spear shaft's path in real time, would it be temporarily engulfed by the bubble? If the bubble retracts from the spear before it fully exits the bubble's normal volume, will objects around the spear but inside the bubble be affected?

In this model, the ground, trains, building, etc. all actually compress the bubble a bit: for instance, a time bubble cast such as to touch the ground results in a flat-bottomed sphere, Perhaps even poking at the bubble with a stick would distend it inward, at least until the "grab that stick and show it who's boss" threshold is reached.

This would actually be eminently testable: if speed bubbles couldn't reach through very solid objects--like, say, the wall of a building or a steel girder--to affect objects on the other side, then the theory looks basically correct. If they can, then we're back to simply having objects teleport into and out of the bubble's area of effect with no rhyme or reason.

In the case of the girder, we might even be able to observe objects in the girder's "shadow" be outside the bubble while objects to its sides are inside of the bubble.

I prefer distending the surface of the bubble to simply having objects be "in" the bubble and then "out" of the bubble all at once because, in the second case, we either have objects physically teleporting out of the bubble or half of an object being inexplicably in the wrong "time zone" despite being over a known border between the two. Distension also plays into the idea of a "bubble," though Brandon's use of that word may be entirely coincidental.

As a ridiculously far-off theory that I'm just laying claim to for the heck of it without really putting much thought or reasoning behind it, what if the "pressure" of an atmosphere actually severely limits the size of time bubbles? So, once we're in space, bubbles suddenly grow to be kilometers's across, actually making "teleporting FTL" (see my "Definitive" thread) feasible.

The Compression Theory:

The other theory is a bit more out there and might be ruthlessly cut down by my eternal foe, Actual Understanding of the Physical World and Its Limitations.

So we know that objects do not want to both be partially in and partially out of a time bubble; in two different time zones but still the same object which just happens to exist on both sides of the bubble, retaining the same shape with its pieces bound together by molecular bonds and whatnot. If that happens, we get infinite acceleration and the world blows up.

However, what if the physical characteristics of an object actually change the border of a time bubble? So a 2m pole "compresses" into a shorter pole as it exits a speed bubble, the border compressing the pole as it leaves and then expanding the pole back, more slowly, on the "real time" side of the bubble in order to allow both sections to be traveling at the same speed, relative to their time zones. This allows the sections to be connected and still not pulling at each other. As the pole continues its transit, it compresses and expands so as to maintain this balance, and eventually leaves at its original 2m length.

This could be tested by either observing and remembering (if it's that obvious) or photographing an object as it traverses the edge of a time bubble, assuming that the visual distortion isn't too bad.

I might be able to hand-wave this with relativity stuff, "the ladder fits in the garage while you move it in, but not when you stop moving it," but I honestly don't know enough to make a good case. I feel as if I may have stumbled upon something here, with the borders of time bubbles pouring out some ridiculous energy to compress and expand objects as they pass, perhaps harness-able as "where the lost energy from thermodynamic issues goes in certain Allomantic interactions." I'll leave it to greater minds to decide.

Conclusion:

While I came up with the second theory first, I'm actually kind of liking the first one better. It may be that my baby-mind simply can't grasp the complexities and/or impossibilities present in the second theory, but I actually like how intuitive distension is for time bubbles.

Even if neither of these theories is satisfactory, we still need to come up with some explanation for what exactly happens when objects enter or leave time bubbles. Partial entry/exit won't work, instantaneous complete entry/exit just doesn't make sense, and the solution has to be out there.

TL;DR: You didn't think you'd actually get off that easily, did you? tongue.gif

Edited by Kurkistan
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I dont have the understanding of the physics to comment on the first theory but based on my limited knowledge of engineering the 2nd is plausible certainly more so than your first theory of no deformation at all.

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Fear me, for I am the avatar of your nemesis, Auotpwail!

That being said, there is nothing inherently wrong with your theories as they are written that I can see (right now in any case). There is not enough info in the book to prove/disprove either.

So I'll just make a few additions, that may provide some food for thought:

1. We know that the edge does exert some force on the exiting object (a jolt/ change of bullet trajectory). We also know that whatever that force is, it does not affect light. Neither does the speed of light change on the edge. The edge of the bubble is barely visible, and may be attribute to air distortion rather than the effects on light beam. There is no refraction. (Ok... there may be ways to get rid of refraction effects. I still think the light speed stays the same inside).

2. We all consider the effects to originate in Physical realm. But the Cosmere has 3 realms... What if the bubble is spherical-like, obeying the distention theory in the Shadesmar instead? There, a sphere-like thing corresponds to a single object regardless of its Physical form, so simply measuring distortion of the bubble in the Physical realm may not cut it.

One of the simplest experiments I'd like to see in a bubble is the distribution of forces on the stick rotating about the center of the bubble with half of it (exactly half by mass and volume :) ) sticking outside. (I.e.e one end is stuck to the center, another is outside, full length of the stick is equal to bubble diameter).

OK, this is it for the quick reply :)

Maybe I'll find some inconsistencies later :P

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1. We know that the edge does exert some force on the exiting object (a jolt/ change of bullet trajectory). We also know that whatever that force is, it does not affect light.

Not true. I think the reason you can see the ripply edge of the bubble is because light distorts on the way in/out, but either self-corrects or something similar. Either that or the riplle is caused by the realmatic consequences of bending time and space.

I've always wondered what happens if you throw up a bubble that only includes half a nearby person, the poor sucker being half in and half out of it. How would half a heart work? Half a brain? I'd imaging it'd kill you depending on what parts of you are in and out.

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Not true. I think the reason you can see the ripply edge of the bubble is because light distorts on the way in/out, but either self-corrects or something similar. Either that or the riplle is caused by the realmatic consequences of bending time and space.

I've always wondered what happens if you throw up a bubble that only includes half a nearby person, the poor sucker being half in and half out of it. How would half a heart work? Half a brain? I'd imaging it'd kill you depending on what parts of you are in and out.

I've always worked under the assumption that a bendalloy bubble causes a form of drag depending on how straight on the projectile impacts the bubble. Say you had a perfect straight shot right to the center of the bubble. The curve would still throw it off a little, but if it were a flat plane the bullet would go straight through. From there if the bullet went in at an angle or was assymetrical the bullet would move away as the sped up section causes it to turn. This is so hard to explain in type. Anybody better for it. Otherwise I'm going to try to write a section describing the process in slow motion.

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That actually makes a remarkable amount of sense.

Totally wacko idea: Time bubbles are their own little worlds, just with a different movement of time. The space where one world ends and another begins is all spazzy because of the completely wierd thing going on in that space, which can then alter momentum.

/crazy

Does time pass differently on different Shardworlds? If you left Sel and entered Roshar directly, would it be like leaving a time bubble?

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That actually makes a remarkable amount of sense.

Totally wacko idea: Time bubbles are their own little worlds, just with a different movement of time. The space where one world ends and another begins is all spazzy because of the completely wierd thing going on in that space, which can then alter momentum.

/crazy

Does time pass differently on different Shardworlds? If you left Sel and entered Roshar directly, would it be like leaving a time bubble?

I don't guite buy this one but time for me to go a little crazy and say that the Bubbles are multidimensional. Everything has a cognitive and spiritual aspect in addition to the physical-even rocks. On one of the levels, likely cognitive as this is where concepts would rationally lie, the bubble is almost sentient. It can see the cognitive aspects of objects entering it and assimilate themselves correctly. When an object enters a bubble all of it is accelerated up to bubble speed while anything leaving is decelerated to normal speed.

basically the only sensical way to have the bubbles work is to give them an AI, otherwise they should be ripping people to shreds as they come in but the bubbles can recognize individual objects for what they are and their size. An AI should exist primarily on the cognitive level(assuming it is magical correct?

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Everything has a cognitive aspect, though it is usually only there in the form in which others think of it as. Only sentient things get a congnitive form of what they think. But...say.... investing some of yourself into a bubble that only you can't leave might give it some thoughts.

But I don't think that's it.

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Not true. I think the reason you can see the ripply edge of the bubble is because light distorts on the way in/out, but either self-corrects or something similar. Either that or the riplle is caused by the realmatic consequences of bending time and space.

I've always wondered what happens if you throw up a bubble that only includes half a nearby person, the poor sucker being half in and half out of it. How would half a heart work? Half a brain? I'd imaging it'd kill you depending on what parts of you are in and out.

Fine. It does not seem to affect light :) At least from what I can tell. If the light were to speed up inside, we'd get a bubble with *very* powerful negative refraction, that would look very distinct from both inside and outside, unless it somehow self-corrected. Neither does the light red- or blueshift. As it is, the boundary is barely noticeable:

Years of familiarity let Waxillium discern the boundary of the bubble, which was marked by a faint wavering of the air.

(emphasis mine)

and the cops miss the bubble altogether, as long as the people inside don't move. Such small and unstable (wavering) distortion is much easier to explain by wavering air pressure near bubble. But you may be right too.

The sounds, however, are distorted:

Everything outside slowed—bullets stilled in the air, shouts vanished, the waves diffusing as they hit the speed bubble. That did strange things to sound.

Which seems to suggest that interaction with bubble slows as the object approaches relativistic speeds (according to ToR, time has no meaning for photons themselves. maybe that is the reason, along with the time dilation effects)

Also, Brandon seemed to say that the object/person can't be halfway inside, only being inside or outside (can't find the quote. I think it was in the twitter somewhere)

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Fine. It does not seem to affect light :) At least from what I can tell. If the light were to speed up inside, we'd get a bubble with *very* powerful negative refraction, that would look very distinct from both inside and outside, unless it somehow self-corrected. Neither does the light red- or blueshift. As it is, the boundary is barely noticeable:

(emphasis mine)

and the cops miss the bubble altogether, as long as the people inside don't move. Such small and unstable (wavering) distortion is much easier to explain by wavering air pressure near bubble. But you may be right too.

The sounds, however, are distorted:

Which seems to suggest that interaction with bubble slows as the object approaches relativistic speeds (according to ToR, time has no meaning for photons themselves. maybe that is the reason, along with the time dilation effects)

Also, Brandon seemed to say that the object/person can't be halfway inside, only being inside or outside (can't find the quote. I think it was in the twitter somewhere)

I remember the quote as saying that people couldn't be half fast time half slow time, but that as soon as they step in they are counted as in by the bubble and speed up. The descriptions of the experience aren't very detailed though... It's safe to say that it doesn't cause blood clots and sudden death but I hesitate to say that once you stick your toe in you teleport all the way in either, that would receive some explanation.

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I remember the quote as saying that people couldn't be half fast time half slow time, but that as soon as they step in they are counted as in by the bubble and speed up. The descriptions of the experience aren't very detailed though... It's safe to say that it doesn't cause blood clots and sudden death but I hesitate to say that once you stick your toe in you teleport all the way in either, that would receive some explanation.

Yeah, something like that.

And the only scene in the book (that I remember) with the human traversing the side of the bubble (Wax falling through it) simply describes the experience as a jolt.

Another thing to note is that releasing the bubble drops you in the normal time without any jolt (at least it is not mentioned). Maybe that is just the movement... Wonder what it'd feel to slow down like that when running, then.

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Nice to see some discussion. I'll just sit by and let Auotpwail & Co. take over for now.

I've always worked under the assumption that a bendalloy bubble causes a form of drag depending on how straight on the projectile impacts the bubble. Say you had a perfect straight shot right to the center of the bubble. The curve would still throw it off a little, but if it were a flat plane the bullet would go straight through. From there if the bullet went in at an angle or was assymetrical the bullet would move away as the sped up section causes it to turn. This is so hard to explain in type. Anybody better for it. Otherwise I'm going to try to write a section describing the process in slow motion.

Like described at the end of this post? A projectile who's path is a line intersecting the geometric center of the bubble is not deflected at all, while deflection grows more and more severe as projectile paths diverge from such a "central" course?

Edited by Kurkistan
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Nice to see some discussion. I'll just sit by and let Auotpwail & Co. take over for now.

Like described at the end of this post? A projectile who's path is a line intersecting the geometric center of the bubble is not deflected at all, while deflection grows more and more severe as projectile paths diverge from such a "central" course?

Yes and no. If a perfectly symmetrical object were pointed at the objects center it would go straight. But that isn't plausible because perfectly symmetrical objects don't exist and so the flaws will be magnified by the time bubbles sudden massive acceleration(+/- depending) But yes, that's how I imagined things.

As to the rest of that discussion, bubbles are attached to a point on a planet they can't be attached to a train car... But that's a separate topic.

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Yes and no. If a perfectly symmetrical object were pointed at the objects center it would go straight. But that isn't plausible because perfectly symmetrical objects don't exist and so the flaws will be magnified by the time bubbles sudden massive acceleration(+/- depending) But yes, that's how I imagined things.

As to the rest of that discussion, bubbles are attached to a point on a planet they can't be attached to a train car... But that's a separate topic.

Sorry, didn't mean to drag back the actual claims and analysis from that thread. I know now (thanks for that, Auotpwail :unsure:) that that whole "accel/decel" idea simply wouldn't work. I was attempting to refer only to the geometry of the projectile's movement in an attempt to clarify what you may have meant.

As for train cars, old news and whatnot.

Edited by Kurkistan
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Nice to see some discussion. I'll just sit by and let Auotpwail & Co. take over for now.

Oh no you don't :) Discuss, and feed Auotpwail with your opinions!

For example, discuss the workings of the bubble over all three realms (keeping in mind that it establishes spiritual connection to the planet...)

Also, I support the bullet refraction theory stated above (i.e. unpredictability due to imperfections, but basic mathematical stability (no random deflection)).

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Oh no you don't :) Discuss, and feed Auotpwail with your opinions!

For example, discuss the workings of the bubble over all three realms (keeping in mind that it establishes spiritual connection to the planet...)

Also, I support the bullet refraction theory stated above (i.e. unpredictability due to imperfections, but basic mathematical stability (no random deflection)).

Tomorrow, tomorrow. Also, could you grab that spiritual connection quote for me, if you have it handy?

P.S. Check my new member title. ;)

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I'll search for the quote. It does not seem to be in the interview database, so I think it was on twitter somewhere...

I'll edit the post then. Also, doesn't the nemesis relation go in the other direction?

Hm, it was right in your definitive post, or originally here:

Edited by Satsuoni
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You just have to know what to search for ;)

ZAS

I’ve got a question kind of based off of the train fight. If you have a time bubble, and you were to make it while you are on the train, would the time bubble move with the train, or would it stay at the same spot relative to the planet?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Time bubbles don’t move, so it would pull you out of it, then it would vanish.

MI'CHELLE

If you were to pop up a time bubble and someone were to be stuck halfway in and halfway out, would they go splooch?

BRANDON SANDERSON

No, they would be in the time bubble. The time bubbles will move with the planet but not with the train.

AUDIENCE

Yeah, I always thought it was relative to the person creating the time bubble.

BRANDON SANDERSON

No, you’ll see Wayne create one, then he’ll walk up to the perimeter, but if he leaves it, it ruins the time bubble.

ZAS

So is that because it’s linked up to the spiritual gravitational bond between the planet?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes, and you’re digging very deeply into stuff that I now can’t answer. Time bubbles have some weirdness to them that I don’t want to dig in too deeply, but yes.

Probably hard to find it because it doesn't mention Bendalloy.

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Ninjad...

I am at work, so I had to search a bit discreetly :)

[EDIT]

Ok, I am confused about English grammar, but I think

"Menaced by Auotpwail" or "Nemesed by Auotpwail" would be more correct <head hurty>

Edited by Satsuoni
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The Distension Theory:

It's been theorized that the entire object transits simultaneously when it contacts the edge of the bubble, which I initially found somewhat absurd, but a thought has occurred to me as to how it could work in practice.

Suppose that the edge of the bubble is not well defined, and that objects entering or exiting the bubble actually "distend" its surface (like a real bubble, as it were). When the bubble "pops", then the object which, up to this point, has been distending the bubble's surface is suddenly on the other side of the border with the bubble resuming its normal, roughly spherical dimensions.

So if you throw a spear out of a bubble, it "bulges out" until enough of the spear (measured as a proportion of mass? Of length? As just a set amount of distension that any given bubble can support?) has gone far enough away from the center of the bubble, at which point the bubble's surface retracts until it no longer encompasses any of the the spear, returning to its normal dimensions after the spear has completely gone it's own way back into real time.

This raises the interesting question of whether the "distension" of the bubble would reach objects near the spear on its way out, as opposed to only affecting the spear itself. If a grain of sand was 1mm away from the spear shaft's path in real time, would it be temporarily engulfed by the bubble? If the bubble retracts from the spear before it fully exits the bubble's normal volume, will objects around the spear but inside the bubble be affected?

In this model, the ground, trains, building, etc. all actually compress the bubble a bit: for instance, a time bubble cast such as to touch the ground results in a flat-bottomed sphere, Perhaps even poking at the bubble with a stick would distend it inward, at least until the "grab that stick and show it who's boss" threshold is reached.

This would actually be eminently testable: if speed bubbles couldn't reach through very solid objects--like, say, the wall of a building or a steel girder--to affect objects on the other side, then the theory looks basically correct. If they can, then we're back to simply having objects teleport into and out of the bubble's area of effect with no rhyme or reason.

In the case of the girder, we might even be able to observe objects in the girder's "shadow" be outside the bubble while objects to its sides are inside of the bubble.

I prefer distending the surface of the bubble to simply having objects be "in" the bubble and then "out" of the bubble all at once because, in the second case, we either have objects physically teleporting out of the bubble or half of an object being inexplicably in the wrong "time zone" despite being over a known border between the two. Distension also plays into the idea of a "bubble," though Brandon's use of that word may be entirely coincidental.

As a ridiculously far-off theory that I'm just laying claim to for the heck of it without really putting much thought or reasoning behind it, what if the "pressure" of an atmosphere actually severely limits the size of time bubbles? So, once we're in space, bubbles suddenly grow to be kilometers's across, actually making "teleporting FTL" (see my "Definitive" thread) feasible.

I agree with this theory. It's the only way to explain how something can leave a time bubble without encountering a Zeno's Paradox.

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I'll search for the quote. It does not seem to be in the interview database, so I think it was on twitter somewhere...

I'll edit the post then. Also, doesn't the nemesis relation go in the other direction?

Hm, it was right in your definitive post, or originally here:

Thanks, sorry about that. It's been awhile. Honestly, I'm a bit swamped at the moment: I'll get back by this time tomorrow, probably, but I don't have time to think deeply right now. I don't know why I thought I had the time to polish and re-post the Transliterator, and I now regret the time spent on it.

EDIT: Stolidly not double-posting. Also going so off-topic as to shame Tolstoy.

Okay, all three realms: (Mild WoK spoilers).

Spiritual: We already have confirmation that the anchoring of a bubble is based, at least partially, upon its caster's spiritual gravitational connection to the planet. I'm still a bit hazy on how gravity is a spiritual force, but we do have both in-world and Word of God confirmation that this is the case.

Massive tangent on Realmatic theory to make the above fact not-absurd, as well as some further observations on the implications of this tangent:

That actually brings up an interesting question of what exactly the spiritual realm is. I have tended to shy away from Realmatic discussion up 'till now, but after a quick Google I didn't really find much discussion on the nature of the Spiritual realm.

While the answer, "it's where the souls go, duh" is obvious, we know that Shardblades are also stored there, so it's not just a realm of ethereal floatiness with Kelsier jogging Sazed's elbow occasionally. We also know that "Spiritual DNA" is a vital component of all of the magic systems.

Given this, I would hazard that the Spiritual realm is the realm of motive force, the cause of all motion, change, growth, decay, etc. This is all very pre-Socratic, but essentially there is no fundamental difference between the human soul motivating action and an apple falling to the ground. Both are necessitated by rules and connections in the Spiritual realm.

As I conceive of my Realmatic schema, the nature of the Spiritual realm is such that it filters its directives through the Cognitive into the Physical realm, with the Physical realm then altering the state of the Spiritual and Cognitive realms in turn. Each and every object has its own spiritual nature determining how it interacts with every other object (gravity, thermodynamics, etc.). Most of these objects have the same rules written into them, but you can sometimes use magic to alter the properties of specific objects. So while Rock_3.125x10^56 might normally have the rule "accelerate towards other objects based upon mass," a Basic Lashing at a 90 degree angle from the ground turns that rule, temporarily into "accelerate parallel to other objects based upon mass" for Rock_3.125x10^56 and Rock_3.125x10^56 alone. Or possibly it's changed to "accelerate towards other objects based upon mass; except for the planet Roshar, in which case accelerate parallel to its surface based upon mass."

So while the Spiritual realm has the general rules and is (possibly) the source of power for motion, the Cognitive realm takes these rules as input and acts upon them based upon the situation at hand and the surroundings of each object. The Physical realm is where all of this is actually enacted and where the Cognitive realm gets its data for acting on the Spiritual realm's directives. As we've seen with people thinking and using magic, the Physical realm also appears to have some impact on the other two, at least on some small scale.

Summary of Structure of the Cosmere:

So:

Spiritual: Motivating forces, rules, physical laws - the logos of the system.

Cognitive: Middle ground between Spiritual and Physical. Interprets Spiritual directives in the context of the Physical realm, alters the Spiritual realm on occasion (soul-changing (?) and magic) as a result of behavior in the Physical realm, and has its own (malleable?) set of rules on how to interpret directives from either of the other realms.

Physical: Where the directives of the Spiritual/Cognitive realms come to fruition, with these directives altering the nature and layout of the Physical realm and so being altered in turn. Where you see everything happening, while the other two realms are more behind the scenes.

To put it in unnecessarily computer-architectural terms:

The Spiritual is the rule set and command line, the Cognitive is where the computations are actually executed based upon inputs from the Spiritual, and the Physical is where the results of these actions are displayed and stored. Changes introduced in the Physical realm then alter the state of the Cognitive and, possibly Spiritual realms during the next cycle. Magic, in particular, hijacks the Spiritual realm and hacks in new rule sets to enable non-normal changes in the Cognitive and Physical realms.

Nature of Magic as Relates to Spiritual Realm:

Some magic might directly influence the Spiritual realm, such as the Lashings, while others might simply be enabled by them. A Thug using Pewter is not necessarily tapping into the Spiritual realm, but his "specification" in the Spiritual realm will include, along with all the normal human specifications and his soul, "can 'burn' pewter for increased physical endurance and general abilities." That's the Spiritual DNA that Brandon loves talking about, and fits perfectly with how vital S-DNA is to the operation of the magic systems.

If my theory is the case, then accessing Shadesmar would allow consciously moving, creating, and/or altering values in the Physical realm, which would explain why it enables travel between Shardworlds and why accessing Shadesmar enables the transmutation of objects in the Physical realm. If my theory is true, then Shallan will never come back from Shadesmar with beads stuck in her hair, because she was never actually there. Likely, she was simply standing in place while her mind took an adventure, Matrix style.

Shardblades, as suggested in this thread, are essentially Physical manifestations of the power of the Spiritual realm, "admin weapons," as it were. Shardblades are triggered into existence by a certain Physical/Cognitive key (enabled by alterations to the Spiritual DNA of its wielder), and then manifest as essentially a miniature bundle of violations of the laws of nature. They are not, then, actual persistent Physical objects which just happen to be stored in the Spiritual realm. They are simply tangible manifestations of crude Spiritual manipulation which did not exist at any point prior to their fashioning in the Spiritual realm, and can never exist in the Physical realm without magical intervention of some kind.

So when we look at gravity somehow being a "spiritual bond," it makes sense because the law of gravity, the gravitational constant, etc. is actually recorded in the Spiritual realm. So "reassigning" the bond, as discussed, is simply a matter of editing the parameters of a single object as I described above (I here presume that aggregate's in the Cosmere are lumped together in the Realms, to avoid having to think about quarks and whatnot).

And back on track:

I would hazard that the temporal metals probably fall under the Spiritual category, just as the mental ones are Cognitive and physical are Physical. All magic comes from the Spiritual realm enabling certain extra-real behavior, but the temporal metals in this case would be primarily affecting the Spiritual aspects of the world. Bendalloy and Cadmium might actually function by re-writing the Spiritual aspects of everything in within the bubble, altering some "this is how fast you move" variable that they all have. This flows down to the Cognitive realm, which sees how much power it has at its disposal and how big/time-altery the Misting wants the bubble to be, then pours re-write power into everything it can reach in the Physical realm.

Unlike stormlight, which sticks with the objects over time to keep their Spiritual aspects from reverting, essentially serving as a capacitor, time bubble's must provide constant fuel to maintain the timey-wimey effect on their surroundings. So as soon as an object gets too far away from the center of bubble--which is in turn fed by the presence of a Misting with the appropriate S-DNA triggering the appropriate metal--the entire object is released from the effect. This could either work through my "distension" theory or actually legitimize a scenario where an object is half-in, half-out of a bubble yet remains either entirely affected or entirely unaffected: the "bubble" is simply a manifestation of the rough range of the metal's effect. This could also explain why light remains unaffected without relying on an alloy of Handwavium--light particles aren't considered objects in the Cognitive/Spiritual realms, at least as far as Bendalloy/Cadmium go, so they get a free pass.

As for FTL, this might actually does give hope to my off-the-cuff suggestion that "teleporting FTL" would work in space as time bubbles suddenly expand without an atmosphere. Without having to worry about all that pesky air moving in and out and in and out, and swirling around, and just being there, there might be a lot more power available for time bubbles to expand. Alternatively (although this goes against the RPG), you might be able to pour the extra power from nicrosil (both feruchemical and alomantic) into expanding the bubble rather than speeding it up, since it makes sense that you can either speed up 10 things to x2 speed or 5 things to x4 with the same amount of power, allowing the expansion of bubbles to include more objects.

P.S. And that's what you get when you ask for my input. I might start another thread if if people like my shiny new Realmatic theory. :P

P.P.S. There is also the problem of why Soulcasting and planet-hopping appear to "stick" whenever you do them while Lashings/time bubbles do not. It could be the case that Lashings/bubbles, besides changing the instructions of objects, also have to provide the energy to affect and/or maintain the changes they demand, due to the continuing violations of the normal laws of the Spiritual (and Physical?) realms that they cause.

It could be the case that, while the Spiritual realm usually provides the motive force (or simply has unique access to the energy of the other two realms?), magical power is required to maintain "hacked in" instructions that co-opt existing instruction sets (Lashings/bubbles) to continually do otherwise impossible things. Soulcasting, however, simply switches out one valid set of specifications (the type of object the target is) for another, equally valid set of specifications (the type you want the target to become). The energy is required to initiate any unnatural change, but is no longer required once the laws of physics are done being violated. So Lashed objects don't bounce back to where they would have been if a Windrunner had never touched them and Soulcast goblets stay as blood.

P.P.P.S. I also forgot to mention that my theory might account for cadmium bubbles being larger, since it's conceivable that the bubble co-opts some of the energy from objects it slows down. Entropy would kick in at some point so the bubble wouldn't just constantly expand, but it would still be cheaper than a speed bubble.

Edited by Kurkistan
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Well, I'll go into more detail later (tired right now), but I've always thought about three realms as the body/minds/soul separation. In realmatics, "mind" seems to define form (see soulcasting), and spirit(soul) life, amongst other things. Hm. Ok I'll add more content later.

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Want topic.

...

Ok thinking again, I was a little overwhelmed for a second there, but I think that is a surprisingly coherent theory considering everything we don't know, we need a full topic to discuss it, maybe more... wow, so I'm actually not back on topic at all, you should make a topic of that Theory Kurkistan, and I'll just leave before I do any more off topic rambling about nothing.

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Want topic.

...

Ok thinking again, I was a little overwhelmed for a second there, but I think that is a surprisingly coherent theory considering everything we don't know, we need a full topic to discuss it, maybe more... wow, so I'm actually not back on topic at all, you should make a topic of that Theory Kurkistan, and I'll just leave before I do any more off topic rambling about nothing.

Will do in a few hours, have to actually leave right now. Thanks for the support.

EDIT: Up now. Enjoy.

EDIT 2:

Well, I'll go into more detail later (tired right now), but I've always thought about three realms as the body/minds/soul separation. In realmatics, "mind" seems to define form (see soulcasting), and spirit(soul) life, amongst other things. Hm. Ok I'll add more content later.

That may well be the case. I'm just trying to generate a self-consistent theory that explains all the fact we know and, hopefully, allows us to make some useful predictions for the future. I'll count this as a win if it even allows us to do some more thoughtful analysis on how the magic systems might work.

Edited by Kurkistan
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