20 replies to this topic

[.S.A.M.K.M]

Brandon is just starting his 2nd draft of the story, s o I thought we could discuss things that could be happening in the book.
We know that andor capital city is under attack via the way gate. I forget is the gate in the old city, the new one, or out side the wall. i think it is in the new one. Will they be able to close AND hold the gate to the area? How far can the cannon shoot, and can they do out of sight bombardment.

THe big meeting between nation leaders is going to be tense. I wonder if the rumored dragon peace will be created. Do we know if the Seanchan were invited?

We know callador will be used in a circle, a man and two women, i WOnder if those women will have angreal, that really strong bracelet and that wand sa'angreal. I think Nyeavean and that former seanchan damane are the channelers.

[fiveAM]

I think the Way Gate was in the New City no the Old City too. The Way Gates were built just outside the Grove and the Grove in Caemlyn was outside the (Old) city. Can't remember for sure though.. I really should brush up on the 11 books before AMoL comes out.

I'm sort of hoping Rand will straight up just break the seals in front of everyone at the meeting, well other than the last one. Cause that has to happen at the Bore so he can create a new seal quick. It would basically force everyone to go with his plan... but then again.. Rand is super zen right now so probably not.

I'm not sure about channelers but it's possible. Elayne is pregnant and Min can't channel. It seems weird to single out Aviendha with Nynaeve already decided on it, but Rand barely knows the former seanchan damane so...

Personally, my pet theory is that Rand, the Dragon Reborn will die, but Rand al'Thor wont. Rand is really similar to Jesus (along with other things like Zeus and King Arthur) and Jesus dies but is resurrected. I think Rand will die at but then come back to life somehow and from then on not live as the Dragon Reborn but just plain Rand al'Thor. And maybe like when Jesus was resurrected, no one would notice it was him even though they walked and talked with him - hence the vision and his multiple future kids.

[CrazyRioter]

Rand will die and be resurrected by Nyneave, cause really it's been mentioned too many times that Nyneave won't be happy til she Heals a dead man for that not to happen.

[fiveAM]

Haha possibly, maybe it'll be like a slightly tweaked form of the balefire weave or something

[Ryan]

I know that it's stated many times in the story that this has happened many times before, and will happen many times again, but...I kind of hope that THIS time around proves to be special in some way. Somehow, just putting the Dark One to rest for one more age would make for a less satisfying ending than if they are somehow able to change the cycle...or even break it.

[fiveAM]

I know that it's stated many times in the story that this has happened many times before, and will happen many times again, but...I kind of hope that THIS time around proves to be special in some way. Somehow, just putting the Dark One to rest for one more age would make for a less satisfying ending than if they are somehow able to change the cycle...or even break it.

Yeah i know what you mean, it would give some reasoning to the significance of "this time around". But considering how like every book starts with the "The Wheel of Time turns... There are no beginnings or endings to the turnings of the Wheel of Time. But it was a beginning." It seems very likely that that's probably not the case. It probably is the last turning of the Wheel before it comes back to where it starts, so probably like the start of a new 'First Age' and build to another Age of Legends.

[Argent]

Al'Lan Mandragoran vs. Shaidar Haran, GO!

[.S.A.M.K.M]

We know Perrin will somehow go after slayed and the dark hounds, but what about the dagger Holder?
THe sole powerful evil creature, that is not bound to the dark one, paidin fain what will he be doing. I wonder if he is needed to harm the darkone, apoison that even he and his forces cant deal with.

WE know tuon is in danger, and she is also needed by the aiel to preserve them. We also know grendal is manipulating her now, so I wonder if avienda will be making her move.

[Aethling]

I do not believe Rand will die at this point. If you go with Avi's visions as being true, I got the feeling that he left. Elayne will probably give birth and then be killed. My guess is a boy and a girl to keep the line of queens and protectors intact. Nyn, it really depends on what happens with Lan. If she she feels that her bond has been lost, she will probably pull a Vin and pretty much solve the problem by herself. Otherwise it will probably be Nyn and Moraine helping Rand use the sword. Moraine already has a history of defying the Tower, and she is still very powerful with the item she gained at the other tower.

We have hints that the dark prophecies say that Perrin will die, but I think that is a red herring. If Rand wins, that instantly invalidates most of the dark prophecies. Perin has already stated he would back Rand, and Matt's agreement with Elayne allows him to opt out of following her orders.

Rand probably isn't going to give the White Tower any choice in the matter. They already know they can't control him from his last visit there. He is the only character that has really put Egwene in her place recently. She probably knows by now that the AS only exist because he doesn't want to take the time to end them.

Honestly, the two things that I want to see are Ruarc coming back and us finding out what the is significance of the piece of wood that Matt bought a few books back. I know that is extremely minor, but the way it just disappeared has always irked me.

Also, I wouldn't at all be surprised if the "wheel" stops turning in that things no longer repeat themselves. If Rand does a good seal, there would be no reason for the cycle to keep running like what winds up happening with Garion after he finally slays the last child of dark. It may just be me, but I have always felt that Sanderson had a bit of an Eddings influence in his early works and Garion finished up right about the time Jordan would have been coming up with his outline for the latter parts of the series.

[fiveAM]

hear hear! Glad to hear someone agrees with me. I also thought that Egwene was getting crazy high on her high horse with no one putting her down a peg or two. It was really starting to annoy me, especially during Nynaeve's formal testing to become Aes Sedai.

It would be pretty cool to see a Fain vs. Matt. Matt was influenced by the dagger before (which is half of the evil in Fain), so it'd be interesting to see what would happen.

Interesting point about the Wheel. I was actually wrong before, the Age of Legends is in fact the Fourth Age. So if the Breaking leads to the First Age... The time after the Dark One is defeated is entering the Fourth Age. There must be some sort of significance in which Age being called First and what not..

Last point. About Aviendha's vision. I don't think it's a Foretelling. Foretelling is supposed to be major powerful that is super rare and a lot of those who can Foretell can't even control it. I think it's similar to the Waystones (forget if it's actually called that) where there are possibilities. I think the Terangreal might have just shown Aviendha a possible future, possibly one that Aviendha specifically was fearing (we know from her narrative that she was already wondering about the future path of the Aiel after this was all over). Not sure if I'm making sense as to the difference between the possibilities and Foretelling.

[Aethling]

I am leaning toward Avi's visions being true. Isn't it hinted that her special abilities with Angreal give her some kind of special insight? It has been a while since I read that series of books, but I seem to remember getting the idea they were meant to be true. I guess we will find out in a few more months one way or the other.

The more I think about it, I feel that Nyn will probably pull some type of Vin move in that she will go nuclear. I may just be reading too much into it, but Lan dying at the gap would be akin to Elend dying at the homeland. It all depends on how much of the end was written by Jordan. We all know that Sanderson has shown a willingness to kill off major characters (Hrathgen, Vin, Elend, Kelsier, Lightsong, Dox, Blushweaver, Dalinar's brother are some examples.)

It is almost certain that Rand will survive. The Seachan prophecies say his blood will be spilt, but that does not necessarily mean he has to die. His link to Avi is the strongest indication. Didn't Min say she would have Rand's triplets? Unless something just hasn't come up, she isn't pregnant yet.

The Seachan are going to be the wildcard. They will probably assault the WT while the final battle is going down.

There has to be stuff other than just the final battle. Supposedly AMOL is roughly the size of ToM. Even split into various views, that would be on detailed battle scene.

[CrazyRioter]

she's going to have quadruplets actually.

edit: also RJ wrote scenes at the very end of the book, not sure how big those scenes were though.

Edited by CrazyRioter, 13 January 2012 - 10:56 PM.

[fiveAM]

Considering how much Brandon respected Jordan and how RJ's wife is helping edit, i think Brandon won't be killing off any major characters if it's not in RJ's notes. RJ planned for the worst (which sadly came to be) and he wrote copious notes on how he wanted things to go, he actually wrote some scenes, some only partial, but the rest is all in his notes.

I'm doing a re-read of the first book right now and just read the part where Bela saves Egwene's butt by swimming across the river like a boss when all the other horses disappeared/died. Definitely want Bela to be alive at the end of the book, maybe even show up randomly and save Rand's life or something. I mean even though Egwene technically owns her now, she was still Rand/Tam's originally, I've always hoped Bela would go back to being Rand's.

[.S.A.M.K.M]

From Aviendha visions, we know there was such a thing as the dragon peace, which the Seanchan agreed to. It makes me wonder if that peace was forged at these fields. So that would mean Rand sent an invitation to Tuon. But the thing is greadal is already laying her hooks into her.
The prophercy about the wolf death has known, that could apply to hopper or slayer?
The best hope for those trapped in the tower, is to march as quick as they can to the aes sedai camp outside. they dont know the range of the travel blocker, but the forces of taim, would not dare face the power of the aes sedai circled with asha'man, his men would be shielded and bound with out any delay. Do the aes sedai know how to hide their channeling.
When fixing the bore, will he use both sides of the power, or that and that dark power moridin also uses. Wanna bet the blood will come from the never healing wound. The ruby knife will be important, this will be the first time the taint of aridhol would be able to attack the dark directly. We wont see fain attacking rand untl the three ta'veren are united once more.
When was lan sent to world's end, enough time for some word to head south, so some asha'men of malkieri will be there. we know the border lands are allied, so is there a chance that the other four nations are sending an army.
The aiel dont like seanchan, neither does the seafolk, both have lost channelers to. I wonder with the white tower raid, will he allow them to travel to steal back the damane and as many sul'dam as they can carry. the wise ones can talk to their captured sisters in dreams to get numbers and locations.
The wolves know the battle is coming, so where will they attack.
Loial is gathering the ogier for war, if the ways are cleansed, could they use this to march for war.

[frozndevl]

I haven't gone back and reread the books in some years, just read the latest as it has come out so my theory-fu is quite weak. However, I got the distinct impression that the Ogier were preparing to leave the world, probably via portal stones, in much the same way that they came to the world. I am vaguely remembering that the Ogier and the tree-folk (the last of which died in EotW) came from another plane of existence.

What I am most looking forward to is how the plot points are twisted to still meet the dictates of prophecy, but in ways that we hadn't considered. I also don't think that any of the main characters will die, including Rand, since I can't recall any other major characters actually dying, just becoming under-powered or "sent to the farm". I don't count dead Forsaken as, well, they are evil and the bad guys do get killed.

[.S.A.M.K.M]

The cover art for the story is published. Its Rand with callador, with two women in the back ground. Best guess is it is Moiraine and Nynaeve, the first as she is wearing blue with grey in her hair with a blue jewel on her fore head, the second is she is wearing a yellow dress with a red dot on her forehead.
We know that for Rand to use Callador, he needs two Aes Sedai, so we guess this is them. We know that Moiraine make sure she got that very powerful angreal. I wonder if to balance those two angreal, Nynaeve will have to use the wand sa'angreal.
"Twice dawns the day when his blood is shed.
Once for mourning, once for birth.
Red on black, the Dragon’s blood stains the rock of Shayol Ghul.
In the Pit of Doom shall his blood free men from the Shadow."

There are four blood relatives of Rand in the story, Galad his half brother, his son and daughter still to be born, as well as his shadow twisted uncle, now only existing as Slayer.
THe wound in his side contains the taint of the dark one and of marshadar. One has been heal, the other contained. Rand could use a similar weave to contain the dark one's touch. THe blood contains the physical presence of the dark one, similar to liquid saidin. USing that as a basis, he can somehow seal it away.
THe seals were heartstone, but crumbled to pieces as they were forged using saidin and the dark ones taint broke them. SO to ensure the dark one is stoped, the seal has to made in a way the dark ones touch cant harm it.
WHat if Rand makes the Ruby dagger the seal? THe city of aridhol drew the taint into it and annhilated each other. WOuld the dark one and marshadar consume each other. That is one way to forever end the cycle.
Mordeth is somehow linked to Rand, but it seemed to be lessened when he was bonded by Alanna. Since then he has been bonded by his three lady loves, as well as a unique connection to Moridin. He also has been marked and healed of the power of aridhol. If the warder band be transfered, i wonder if the link to mordeth or moridin could be transfered to each other? The taint on saidin was destroyed with contact of aridhol, could something similar used to deal with the dark one.
The twice dawn is an eclipse. It marks the death and birth of an age. So a normal dawn, then the eclipse.

Did any one know he also used a short blade, I wonder if it is a sword breaker.

Edited by .S.A.M.K.M, 23 May 2012 - 03:23 PM.

[McCullough]

I haven't gone back and reread the books in some years, just read the latest as it has come out so my theory-fu is quite weak. However, I got the distinct impression that the Ogier were preparing to leave the world, probably via portal stones, in much the same way that they came to the world. I am vaguely remembering that the Ogier and the tree-folk (the last of which died in EotW) came from another plane of existence.

What I am most looking forward to is how the plot points are twisted to still meet the dictates of prophecy, but in ways that we hadn't considered. I also don't think that any of the main characters will die, including Rand, since I can't recall any other major characters actually dying, just becoming under-powered or "sent to the farm". I don't count dead Forsaken as, well, they are evil and the bad guys do get killed.

If I recall correctly the method the Ogier use is called the Book of Translation, and from what I have read it takes them directly to the next point on the wheel where they should be.

[.S.A.M.K.M]

The Shadow Rising was around 390 000 words, so if memory of light truly is going to be the longest, we can expect something like 400000 or more.

We know being linked makes it very difficult to be shielded against their will. the escaping group needs only reach the camped sisters out side the gate. Their combined power could literally reshape the entire black tower. Part of the prophercy was something about the grounds being damaged, what if it simply a canal being helped made and other improvements.

Moiranne is important for the last battle, I wonder what she bar ginned with the finn? SHe will be part of the circle of callador, so will be involved in the sealing?

[Aethling]

While reading another unrelated post here, I would also like to know if the Tinkers actually find the song.

[.S.A.M.K.M]

There are two places where the song is most likely to be found. The music box or library ter'angreal Elayne has, or if a Tinker decides to walk into the glass pillars in Ruiden to see his ancestors memories.
I wonder if Rand with his acquired memories could give the song?