Kandra on other Shardworlds

[TheOneKEA]

I was retreading a thread in the events forum about Brandon's statements regarding kandra and their activities in human bodies on Scadrial, and it made me wonder about the following questions:

- In the third Mistborn trilogy, will we see kandra world hopping to other Shardworlds?

- What would happen if a kandra went to Nalthis and someone gave them a Breath?

- What would happen if a kandra went to Roshar and picked up a shardblade?

- What would happen if a kandra went to Sel at all?

[Phantom Monstrosity]

- What would happen if a kandra went to Nalthis and someone gave them a Breath?

 

Something awesome.

 

(I asked Brandon a similar question at a signing)

"Can you put Breath into a Mistwraith? Would that make something awesome?"

Note: he paused for a couple moments, and seemed like the idea hadn't occurred to him before.

"Putting Breath into a Mistwraith? Yeah, that could definitely work."

 

 

Asking a followup question at the reddit AMA (Would giving a Lifeless a pair of Kandra Blessings make it more intelligent? Similarly, could Blessings make a Parshman more parshendi-like?) got RAFOed.

Edited June 6, 2013 by Phantom Monstrosity

[Aethling]

Unless Harmony went to the planet to set up the magic system to work, There really wouldn't be a Kandra.  The lack of the working spikes would just make it a normal Mistwraith, and we see what that is like at the end of the Mistborn trilogy.

 

Just because an author tells you to RAFO does not mean your question will come up answered in a book or is even possible.  Jordan did that several times for issue and questions that were never resolved or that he just didn't feel like answering.

[WeiryWriter]

Unless Harmony went to the planet to set up the magic system to work, There really wouldn't be a Kandra.  The lack of the working spikes would just make it a normal Mistwraith, and we see what that is like at the end of the Mistborn trilogy.

 

Just because an author tells you to RAFO does not mean your question will come up answered in a book or is even possible.  Jordan did that several times for issue and questions that were never resolved or that he just didn't feel like answering.

 

A Kandra's hemalurgic spikes wouldn't stop working if they went off-world, hemalurgy isn't region-locked.  It has also been used on other planets.

Edited June 7, 2013 by WeiryWriter

[skaa]

A Kandra's hemalurgic spikes wouldn't stop working if they went off-world, hemalurgy isn't region-locked.

 

Yep. Also, the author of AoL's Ars Arcanum (Hoid?) seems to be a world-hopping fan of Hemalurgy:

 

At its core, Hemalurgy deals with removing abilities--or attributes--from one person and bestowing them on another. It is primarily concerned with things of the Spiritual realm, and is of the greatest interest to me. If one of these three arts is of great interest to the Cosmere, it is this one. I think there are great possibilities for its use.

(Emphasis mine.)

 

That won't make sense at all unless Hemalurgy works in other Shardworlds.

 

I can imagine it already: "The World-Hopping Adventures of TenSoon and MeLaan: A Cosmere Novel"

[Aethling]

Well, the interview report just states that someone tried to use it on another planet.  It specifically states that he did not say it worked.  The second snippet just states that it has possibility.  Again, nothing saying it would work as the Cosmere stands.

 

However, he has specifically stated for a magic system to work the shard would have to overtly do something to the planet in question to make sure that the magic could work.  That in an of itself overrides both of the snippets put forth.  Considering that Kandra only exist because of the workings of the magic system, they could not exist without something being done to allow the magic to work.  Essentially, they would be Mistwraiths with two metal spikes in their bodies.  Without the magic system being flipped on for the planet, the spikes would not work.  We have a perfect example of what happens to a Kandra when they no longer have the blessings giving them attributes.

 

In essence, none of the magic systems can work cross planet unless their corresponding shard activates the magic for the planet.  Mistborn would not work on Nalthis or Roshar.    Breaths would not work on Roshar or Scadrial.  A not so perfect example would be an electrical appliance.  Both the US and Germany have electricity, but you cannot take a dvd player from the US and expect it to work out of the box in Germany.  You have to take a travel converter with you.  The shard doing its thing would be the converter.

 

Note, I do make an exception for someone that was empowered pre-shattering.  That was a much greater power and an entirely different set of circumstances.

Edited June 7, 2013 by Aethling

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Magic systems are portable, dude.  Otherwise worldhoppers would be stuck the moment they left home.

[Windrunner]

Just a quote to go along with that statement.

INSERTCLEVERPHRASE ()
I know from reading your blog and various other comments that many of your books are in the same cosmos/universe, specifically Mistborn, Elantris, Warbreaker, and Way of Kings. I also am pretty sure that one day you'd like to do a series that ties all the different series/books together into one super-series. So my question is, would the various magic systems work on different worlds? For example, would a Mistborn be able to use his/her abilities in the world Way of Kings is located on?

BRANDON SANDERSON
It depends on the magic system. They are all related to a kind of "Spiritual DNA" that one gets from their heritage on a specific planet. However, there are ways around that. (Hemalurgy, for example, 'staples' a piece of someone else's soul to your own, and creates a work around to give you access to magic you shouldn't have.) Some of the magics are more regionally tied than others. (In Elantris, you have to access the Dor, which is very regionally influenced.)

The end answer is this: With in-depth knowledge of how the magics work, and their connection, one could probably get them all to work on other planets. It may take effort for some of them.\

Source

[Leuthie]

Hemalurgy might not work on Sel, but there might be a technique to take sDNA from one person and graft it on another that does work on Sel. Being Cosmere aware and knowledgeable about how Hemalurgy works, one might figure out how to create a magic system without even being a Shard.

One might then call themselves The Seventeenth Shard...

[Wonko the Sane]

I'm not certain, but I believe that the quote actually said that a Shard has to make certain alterations to the people of a planet in order for those people to have access to a magic system linked to that Shard. If you already have that access, I see no inherent reason why Allomancy, for example, would not function on Roshar.

Additionally, it seems unlikely that Hoid would need to return to Scadrial every time he wanted to use Feruchemy.

[Leuthie]

Feruchemy doesn't require any input from the local power source. All power is supplied/stored by the user. It should be able to be used anywhere. Definition of end-neutral.

Allomancy requires a power source. When you burn pewter, the extra strength you gain has to come from somewhere else. On Scadrial, it comes from Preservation. Can Preservation power this from anywhere? If not, can Dor be used on Sel or Stormlight on Roshar? Can metal found on Roshar or Nalthis be used? (I think that's been answered in the affirmative)

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Allomancy requires a power source. When you burn pewter, the extra strength you gain has to come from somewhere else. On Scadrial, it comes from Preservation.

 

Not exactly.  They're using their tiny inner preservation to draw on the powers of creation; big P preservation is hardly involved (though he could step in to fuel it if he wanted).

 

 

 

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=836

Zas

So where does the power of Allomancy come from? Does it come directly from Preservation? Does that imbalance him?

Brandon Sanderson

[brandon being cautious about wording] Certain things built into a world are not the same. Not used in the same way. Meaning the energy of Preservation and Ruin inside of something living and growing—yes that's "of" them, but that's not direct force that they're using at that time.

 

 

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=727

Kaimipono (16 October 2008)

Allomancy is fueled by Preservation's body? How exactly does that work? And how does that interact with Atium—it's fueled by both gods' bodies?

Brandon Sanderson (17 October 2008)

The powers of Ruin and Preservation are Shards of Adonalsium, pieces of the power of creation itself. Allomancy, Hemalurgy, Feruchemy are manifestations of this power in mortal form, the ability to touch the powers of creation and use them. These metallic powers are how people's physical forms interpret the use of the Shard, though it's not the only possible way they could be interpreted or used. It's what the genetics and Realmatic interactions of Scadrial allow for, and has to do with the Spiritual, the Cognitive, and the Physical Realms.

Condensed 'essence' of these godly powers can act as super-fuel for Allomancy, Feruchemy, or really any of the powers. The form of that super fuel is important. In liquid form it's most potent, in gas form it's able to fuel Allomancy as if working as a metal. In physical form it is rigid and does one specific thing. In the case of atium, it allows sight into the future. In the case of concentrated Preservation, it gives one a permanent connection to the mists and the powers of creation. (I.e., it makes them an Allomancer.)

So when a person is burning metals, they aren't using Preservation's body as a fuel so to speak—though they are tapping into the powers of creation just slightly. When Vin burns the mists, however, she'd doing just that—using the essence of Preservation, the Shard of Adonalsium itself—to fuel Allomancy. Doing this, however, rips 'troughs' through her body. It's like forcing far too much pressure through a very small, fragile hose. That much power eventually vaporizes the corporeal host, which is acting as the block and forcing the power into a single type of conduit (Allomancy) and frees it to be more expansive.

 

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=727

Czanos (17 October 2008)

Preservation can fuel Allomancy, (Minus Atium.) but can Ruin fuel Hemalurgy? (Or Atium?) And could Sazed fuel all three Metallic Arts?

Brandon Sanderson (17 October 2008)

Both gods could, if they wanted, fuel all of the metallic arts. Preservation is stronger at fueling Allomancy, Ruin stronger at fueling Allomancy or Feruchemy when it has been given via a spike. Both are balanced when it comes to Feruchemy. But this rarely comes up in the books, as it required expending power in a way that the gods were hesitant to do.

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=727

As a note here, the powers granted by all of the metals—even the two divine ones—are not themselves of either Shard. They are simply tools. And so, it's possible that one COULD have found a way to reproduce an ability like atium's while using Preservation's power, but it wouldn't be as natural or as easy as using Preservation to fuel Allomancy.

The means of getting powers—Ruin stealing, Preservation gifting—are related to the Shards, but not the powers themselves.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Phantom Monstrosity

[Aethling]

Could someone on Roshar walk up to Dalinar and steal a piece of his power by using a metal spike?  I would have to answer no.  The effect would be the same a stabbing someone with a railroad spike on earth.  If Harmony went to Roshar and did his thing, that would be a completely different story.  Could Cultivation or Odium create a system that was pretty much identical, yes.  We have word of Brandon on this.

 

Could you take a Sapphire to Scadrial and fill it with Stormlight? I don't remember anything from any of the house balls where the necklaces or rings started glowing with an unnatural light.

 

We already know Raoden would be powerless on either Scadrial or Roshar.  Still, that is a region locked magic to begin with.

 

Could Elend and Vin have traded breaths?  Definately not.  Biochromy has not been turned on for Scadrial.

 

 

The questions really become:

1.  Could a Mistborn with a stomach full of metals use them on Nalthis, Sel, or Roshar?

2.  Could a user of Biochromy use a store of breaths on Sel, Scadrial, or Nalthis?

3.  Could Kaladin or Szeth take a load of powered gems to Nalthis, Sel, or Scadrial and use them?

 

I would have to say not until the corresponding shard did its thing to turn the powers on for the planets in question.  We know that the shards do have an effect on the magic systems, otherwise they would all be available on all of the cosmere planets.

 

I am not saying that a Mistborn would lose its powers by going to Nalthis.  This potential would still be there.  How could a power that at its basis relies on a shard or shards work on a planet where the shard has zero power or influence

Edited June 8, 2013 by Aethling

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Could someone on Roshar walk up to Dalinar and steal a piece of his power by using a metal spike?

Sure. You canonically can use hemalurgy to steal a shardblade. They aren't going to discover the metallic arts by accident, though.

Could you take a Sapphire to Scadrial and fill it with Stormlight? I don't remember anything from any of the house balls where the necklaces or rings started glowing with an unnatural light.

My answer? Sure, if you had some stormlight to put in it. But you'll have to wait for the next highstorm for that, and that might take a while.

Could Elend and Vin have traded breaths? Definately not. Biochromy has not been turned on for Scadrial.

They don't have Breaths, so obviously not. Whether or not they're on scandrial is irrelevant - if they went to Nalthis they still wouldn't be able to. If they somehow gained the ability to be an awakener, they still wouldn't *actually* be able to awaken since they don't have Breath.

Edited June 11, 2013 by Phantom Monstrosity

[Isomere]

Could someone on Roshar walk up to Dalinar and steal a piece of his power by using a metal spike?

Only if the person using the metal spike had Investiture from Ruin and had an Identity attuned to Ruin prior to spiking Dalinar.

Could Elend and Vin have traded breaths?

No, they don't have Breath. And if some people from Nalthis gave them lots of Breath they would still not be able to trade or use them unless they somehow attuned their Identity to Endowment.

Could a Mistborn with a stomach full of metals use them on Nalthis, Sel, or Roshar?

Space travel with Allomancy will become possible, which suggests you can use it on other planets. Extrapolate this and we can theorize surgebinding and Awakening work on distant planets. So far Sel is the only confirmed place where magic doesn't work away from home.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Isomere

[Phantom Monstrosity]

I might as well toss this in as well.

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=692

Interview: Oct 15th, 2010

17th Shard Interview (Verbatim)

17th Shard

Tucker asks, "Will you ever write a book or series where different magic systems come into the same world?"

Brandon Sanderson

Where different magic systems come into the same world. Um...I have already.

17TH SHARD

(confused) Published novels?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes.

17TH SHARD

I mean like different magic systems from different worlds.

BRANDON SANDERSON

That's what I said.

17TH SHARD

He's being really clever about this, Eric.

Eric

Okay, okay, sorry.

[Kadrok]

Phantom, if I could give you 5 up-votes for each of those posts, I would. I had an argument with someone on the Crafty Games forum about this very matter... he would claim that Allomancy would need Preservation/Harmony to be present on the other world to work, or at least a splinter of it, I would counter that the P/H WAS present on the world in the form of the Allomancer, as all Allomancers (like all Scadrians) contain a bit of Preservation in them... anyway, I've added the references you've made to my personal collection, so thankyou.

Edited June 11, 2013 by Kadrok

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Ah, here's the pair of quotes I was digging for.

 

 

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/2383-qa-with-brandon-sanderson/page-6

Can magic systems from one world work in any given other?

Brandon Sanderson

For some, it will take quite a bit of work, but it's possible to get them each to work. Sel's magics are regional, and so they are going to be tough. Scadrial's magics are the easiest.

Odium's_Shard

Lastly, less pressingly, do Spirit Points (hemalurgic spots) apply to ever magic system, and through the Cosmere at large? Ie. could Hemalurgy be used to take any other magic systems aspects, and do other magic systems also have these 'Points', such as Body Focuses, that work in similar ways?

Brandon Sanderson

Hemalurgy crosses magic systems. You could steal things from people on other worlds, if you knew the right places for the spikes.

 

 

Also these (from same thread):

Nemuri

If a Shardblade was used on an awakened object, would it physically harm the object, destroy the Breath, or a combination of the two?

Brandon Sanderson

You will someday know.

 

 

mycoltbug

Is it possible for a non-native being to use a shard blade?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes

 

 

Took me longer than normal because I misremembered the quote as being 'allomancy is the most portable', and not 'scandrial's magics are easiest'

Edited June 12, 2013 by Phantom Monstrosity