Chronology

[Voidus]

Ah alright, I thought it was probably better to live an approximate date then none, so I left it in but put a disputed tag on it. Unless anyone thinks we should just leave it until we find exact dates?

[Meg]

Hey there

I'm confused about the chronology of/on Roshar given in TWoK.

Kabsal (I admit that it's not sure whether his statements are valid) told Shallan:
 

“I told you the basics, Shallan. The Voidbringers were an embodiment of evil. We fought them off ninety and nine times, led by the Heralds and their chosen knights, the ten orders we call the Knights Radiant. Finally, Aharietiam came, the Last Desolation. The Voidbringers were cast back into the Tranquiline Halls. The Heralds followed to force them out of heaven as well, and Roshar’s Heraldic Epochs ended. Mankind entered the Era of Solitude. The modern era.”

The last part before my emphasizes might be evidence that Kabsal's statement isn't right (I don't see that the Heralds had gone to heaven after they left the Oathpact.) But that might be an explanation ardents give for the absence of the Heralds.

Given that he's not lying, he said that Mankind entered the Era of Solitude just after the Aharietiam. So the dates given are not dates from the Era of Solitude in it's entirety, what is suggested when we write i.e. "1173 EoS".
The book takes place in the Era of Solitude but the beginning of the calender is not the beginning of the EoS so I feel it's confusing a little bit.

Also we see that during the EoS there are other calenders used previous to this in TWoK (see Chapter 19, Starfalls: "It is Eighth Epoch, three thirty-seven."). This "Eighth Epoch" also is set during the Era of Solitude if Kabsal is right.

Please help me clearing up my mind.

[Joe ST]

That is a good find, Meg... Our usage of EoS is from the Recreance, so once we find out which Epoch ended with the Recreance, we will know our Epoch, and can change things. Was the 8th Epoch one of Dalinar's flashbacks, the one where he fought alongside some Knights Radiant?

[Meg]

That is a good find, Meg... Our usage of EoS is from the Recreance, so once we find out which Epoch ended with the Recreance, we will know our Epoch, and can change things.

Ah, I wasn't sure whether The Day of Recreance was defined here the day 0 (or better: 0 minus 1). Maybe this should be added to the chronology?  

 

Was the 8th Epoch one of Dalinar's flashbacks, the one where he fought alongside some Knights Radiant?

 

Yes, it was . 

Also we see that during the EoS there are other calenders used previous to this in TWoK (see Chapter 19, Starfalls: "It is Eighth Epoch, three thirty-seven."). This "Eighth Epoch" also is set during the Era of Solitude if Kabsal is right.

 

 

Starfalls is the chapter when Dalinar was Heb and the two Knights Radiant came for help.

[Joe ST]

I thought as much, and yes, it probably should be added somewhere. I am up for suggestions as to how to improve the way we've done that too (and also, a way of doing 'relative' dates so that we can do the other book timelines better)

[Windrunner]

Meg, it was my impression that the Eighth Epoch was one of the Heraldic Epochs, before the Heralds left, not during the Era of Solitude. They seemed to think a Desolation was coming, which would put it before Aharietiam. Hope this helps

[Meg]

Thanks . It sounds plausible that this vision may be set in a time before the Heralds left.

Anyway that leaves my main question: If Kabsal is right, the Era of Solitude began after the leave of the Heralds at Aharietiam.

[Windrunner]

I'm afraid I'm not following your problem. Is it that there's been 4000 years since the Heralds left and the Era of Solitude began, but the calendar is only at 1173? If so, there's a simple explanation. For whatever reason, a new calendar began sometime 1173 years ago. Just because that's the year, doesn't mean that it is the number of years since Aharietium. Unless I've missed a quote that says otherwise?

[Meg]

I apologize for not getting my question good worded.

I'm confused why the chronology adds "EoS" to this dates (i.e. "now" = 1173 EoS). I understood that "day 0" was after the Day of Recreance (which had been around 3.327 years after the Aharietiam == 3.327 EoS). Wouldn't it be a possibility to name it "1173 New Rosharian Calendar" or something like this? Is this understandable? :/

[callumke]

I'm afraid I'm not following your problem. Is it that there's been 4000 years since the Heralds left and the Era of Solitude began, but the calendar is only at 1173? If so, there's a simple explanation. For whatever reason, a new calendar began sometime 1173 years ago. Just because that's the year, doesn't mean that it is the number of years since Aharietium. Unless I've missed a quote that says otherwise?

I completely agree. The new calendar has a 0 date at some point unknown so far. I have no idea what it could be.

 

Not Aharietium; The Prelude is set 4506 years before the present

Not the Day of Recreance - "The Recreance is an event so old, it might as well have been in the shadowdays" - Pg 337. A thousand years is a long time, but not that old. 

Not the Hierocracy - "...like what the Hireocracy said when it had tried to conquer the world five centuries ago."

 

So... a question for Brandon then, and/or a reveal for WoR.

[Joe ST]

I completely agree. The new calendar has a 0 date at some point unknown so far. I have no idea what it could be.

 

Not Aharietium; The Prelude is set 4506 years before the present

Not the Day of Recreance - "The Recreance is an event so old, it might as well have been in the shadowdays" - Pg 337. A thousand years is a long time, but not that old. 

Not the Hierocracy - "...like what the Hireocracy said when it had tried to conquer the world five centuries ago."

 

So... a question for Brandon then, and/or a reveal for WoR.

I'd say its more likely to be Recreance, since a thousand years is more than long enough for a world without 'modern' civilization to forget its history... though I agree that the Knights Radiant lasting 3500 years is a push. 

[Meg]

though I agree that the Knights Radiant lasting 3500 years is a push.

Ooops, I never thought this way.

[Voidus]

Could mark the beginning of old Vorinism

[Sylver]

1)     I would really suggest listing the dates by multiple labels...

         for instance...

 

Instead of..

 

1173 EoS

Bridge Four rescue...

 

it would be more communicative if it read...

 

4500 EoS ///// 1173 MAC

Bridge Four rescue...

 

(where MAC is Modern Alethi Calendar [or MRC, Moder Rosharian Calendar])

(Could also include an "ME" next to "EoS", for Modern Era)

 

This is more consistent with the dating in the book, as Kabsal makes clear (granted he could be misinformed... but I doubt he's wrong here, considering he's more than what he seems). 

 

"The Voidbringers were cast back into the Tranquiline Halls.  The Heralds followed to force them out of heaven as well, and Roshar's Heraldic Epochs ended. Mankind entered the Era of Solitude. The Modern Era". (pg 635)

 

If Kabsal is correct on his dates, then clearly this coincides with the prologue.  Thus, Aharietiam is the 0 of the Modern Era, also called the Era of Solitude. (But NOT the 0 that leads us to 1173).

 

2)  I would also suggest.. even though we don't know what happened to restart the calendar to give us the number "1173", the chronology page SHOULD have a zero, with a question mark for the event, and the coinciding date in the EoS... so... somewhere around 3400 EoS//// 0 MRC.

 

3)  One other date I thought was important to include was the day, month, and year that the Everstorm will presumably strike.  

 

Prologue Epigraph "The love of men is a frigid thing, a mountain stream only three steps from the ice. We are his. Oh Stromfather.. we are his. It is but a thousand days, and the Everstorm comes." (pg. 21)

-first day of the week Palah of the month Shash of the year 1171.  (That's the first day, 5th week, 6th month= Shash the 25th?)

 

I thought that as it's been established that a year is 500 days... then 1,000 days would be the same day, two years later, year 1173... However, I've just found that the latest date any of the words spoken by the dying that we have is Tanatanes (the 9th month) 1173... which is... 3 months beyond the 1,000 days... So I'm guessing it wasn't a literal 1,000 days? Either way... that last month, Tanat, has a lot more recorded death prophecies than the other months... so it definitely feels like we're right on the verge of the Everstorm. In fact, in light of the increased amount of "prophecies", and the event in the Epilogue, I'd say we could mark it on the calendar as Tanat 1173 with a question mark to signify that it's a BIT of an assumption. Or is "The Desolation" (pg 1001) a very different event from the "Everstorm"?

 

4)  Finally, I'd highly suggest including the Recreance on the timeline... but putting a big fat question mark for the date (obviously between the Prologue [Aharietiam] and the Hierocracy).

 

Sorry for the ramblings. I've just been reading on the Wiki, and re-reading via audio book.. which has been putting some things together for me.

[Dysphoric Kitten]

WoK is about the same time as Mistborn modern.

[Windrunner]

Unless you have a citation that says otherwise, that's not so. Alloy and Mistborn are about concurrent with the modern trilogy taking place 50 years after Alloy.

[Dysphoric Kitten]

I am not sure where I read this, but I know I read about a 50 year... Forget it. No citation, dismiss this. Sorry.