Elena

Gotta love Shallan making an effort to appreciate Adolin trying to be 'broad-minded', all the while being slightly put-off she's being compared to peasants.

Okay fun fact: I was so happy when I was Veil that I almost squealed (I'm at work) and then I had to pretend just saw a cute cat video to cover the extent of my nerdiness. And then it turned out that I had embarrassed myself for like, five seconds of Veil screentime. Lesson learned, I'll try and fake a cough next time I'm excited.

Ps: I love Shalanspren! It goes together with Sylblade.

Veil is back!

1 hour ago, JoyBlu said:

I want to know about out his son and any other Kohler Relatives.  Are there more brothers, uncles, cousins? It seems like I should know more about the Kholin Family tree 

As per WOB there aren't many left - Dalinar and Gavilar were from a minor branch of the house, and they got rid of most of them so that Gavilar could become Highprince.

Since we're talking about Elhokar (one of my favourite people to speculate about, in case it wasn't clear) there's something we haven't really discussed so far.

How is he going to react when he finds out that Kaladin had a hand in the botched assassination attempt he rescued him from? How is he even going to find out? I'm assuming Kaladin will tell somebody at some point, plus we haven't seen the last of Moash yet, so a reckoning is definitely coming up.

Truth be told, I think the assassination attempt was the best thing that could have happened to Elhokar; it kicked off all that introspection and gave Elhokar some more Poweful Truths to serve to all those cryptics stalking him, but it wasn't exactly Kaladin's best moment. How will Elhokar react when he finds out that the man he basically hero worships (even though he cannot yet be bothered to remember Kaladin's name) at one point wanted him dead? I can see him getting enraged. I can see him going all 'everybody wants me gone, but I'll show them' again. I can see him really taking it hard - I still maintain that Elhokar getting drunk and depressed before the attempt was less a consequence of Moash's co-conspirators criticizing him within hearshot and more about Kaladin showing nothing but contempt a few chapters earlier.

Whatever happens, I think it will further Elhokar's character development more than it will make him regress, but I really hope it could also serve as a moment of growth for Kaladin, too - I'd love it if they actually went on their Awkward Roadtrip of Heroes and Kaladin actually confessed. Better that than the truth coming out in some explosive way later on, plus Elhokar needs to do some more growing up asap before he deals with the fact that his wife is behind the mess in his city

@maxal I dont understand how Dalinar's powers were crippled though? He has authority over Urituh and what goes on in it. He has authority on all the Alethi and Highprinces (and Adolin) within his city. He has authority over matters of Radiants and Desolations and contacting Roshar monarchs. He simply no longer has authority over the Kholin lands in Alethkar, and all that comes with it. He is still a deeply respected, influential figure.

Also I don't see why Elhokar, the king, is not necessary the best person to defend Kholinar - it's his capital and seat, and it's about time he tried to actually do something. He even said he'd asked for Kaladin to come along specifically so that the city could still be saved even if he himself were to fail.

I did not see Highprince Adolin coming (I mean not this soon, I'm still thinking Dalinar won't make it to the end of OB) and I understand some people might really dislike the idea, but I don't think that by itself it's necessarily a bad sign. BUT let's all remember that actually the succession is not a done deal yet. Maybe something happens next chapter and everything goes up in smoke

Okay, but... even if Elhokar had manipulated Dalinar into abdicating to Adolin (which I definitely don't believe is the case) then... what? Dalinar did so willingly. He had been usurping the authority of the king for months if not years, in the meanwhile calling himself Elhokar's biggest supporter. He took power and credibility away from a monarch who already had them in short supply to begin with. He refused to address what he was doing, therefore making it impossible to have an open conversation acknowledging the situation. He made it pretty clear he wasn't goint to stop.

What exactly was Elhokar supposed to do, take measures against his uncle? That would've fractured the kingdom even deeper. So even if Elhokar somehow constructed an intricate scheme do to... what? Regain the authority that was his in the first place? I see nothing wrong with it. It's probably the wisest political move he made since gaining the throne - good on him.

Another consideration is that Syl specifically mentions people locking their doors, 'but there's always space under it'. That to me sounds like the more bonded spren remain in the physical realm the more they become, to an extent, subject to actual law of physics. If this is true for all spren, it puts some limits on what a spren can see - they can't go though walls, for example. That is of course assuming that Syl being unable to go through solid materials (such as doors) is a general law and isn't just due to how Syl perceives her abilities and limitations, much like why Kaladin still has his scars.

14 hours ago, Pammie said:

 

I think that the real issue is that by being the 'Highking' of Alethkar AND refounding/leading the Knights Radiant, Dalinar is unintentionally setting up the Knights Radiant as an Alethi group, which will definitely create factions among the surgebinders. So, Dalinar has a few options: 

Wait, I thought Dalinar was being set up as Highking of Roshar. He wants to unite the continent  (behind himself) and go beyond his roots in Alethkar. That would also give him a mandate to rule over the KR, eventually, if all rulers accept him. Still, I'm more inclined to believe that the position of Highking, if it ever was a thing or if it will be indeed made a thing in the saga, will be as a first among equals, a sort of leader of a council of sovereigns and a council of the 10 orders of KR (since most Heralds aren't exactly in a position to lead the orders).

I'm still not sure where this Highking business will lead though. Dalinar is the only one who can feasibly hold this position, and I don't see the role outliving Dalinar. It could become a sort of cerimonial title for the major KR leader, but I think things will have to change a lot before the kings and queens of Roshar can swallow a random, non-princely KR being nominally above them.

1 hour ago, Slothspren said:

Not to mention I am really REALLY hating Dalinar being so possessive about Radiants and Kaladin being so subservient to him. They are both Radiants and by the KR law they are both equals from different orders. And the fate of that Honorblade should be decided by Kaladin not Dalinar, it is a Windrunner blade which belongs to the patron of their order. Ideally it should be locked away in Windrunner custody. 

I'm not hating it myself, because it feels like a natural and predictable evolution of their roles, but I understand what you mean. Kaladin willingly gave the Honorblade to Dalinar and there's nothing to do about that, but in regard to the rest consider:

*The two main attributes of Windrunners are protection and leadership. Kaladin is definitely coming into his own as a leader of men in this book, although pertaining to a completely different sphere than Dalinar's. He previously avoided stepping up as a leader, at least when he could get away with it, now he's rallying people to his cause. That said, he's never been subservient to Dalinar - subordinate yes, he's a soldier, but subservient and Kaladin are two words that just don't go together.

*If you dislike the way Dalinar's handling thing, keep in mind that (at least IMO) he won't be around much longer. Going into this book I thought he was a goner; now that Elhokar brought up the High King stuff I am slightly less sure, but still think that if not in this one he has high chances of dying by the end of the next book at the very latest. He just seems doomed to me.

47 minutes ago, vividox said:

For the record, I think the only shame Dalinar feels there is shame for his feelings for Navani. That whole interlude is framed by Dalinar internalizing his feelings for Navani, not wanting to take a wife unless commanded to do so, and never wanting Gavilar to find out about his feelings for Navani.

Due to the placement of that line, it's entirely possible that there is some kind of trickery going on with the heir/wife, but honestly, I feel like Sanderson just didn't want to write such a gruesome scene. I guess we'll RAFO eventually. 

Agreed that he was likely thinking about Navani, but I'm also about 96% sure that he left alive the son, and about fifteen or so years later he will leade a rebellion, kidnap Shshsh and take her at the Roft where it all began. Then Dalinar will kill him.

Guys one thing... I know we all keep forgetting about it, but what about Elhokar's son? His infant son? Safe, or is he a goner? What the hell is happening in Kholinar, I need to know yesterday.

2 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Also @lastofus has a good point. Ghostbloods, Diagram and Sons of Honor in the same place will be cool. A Mraize vs Graves vs Amaram fight anyone?

Imagine the satisfaction if they all kill each other!

1 hour ago, Scriptorian said:

Syl no! Don't provoke the Shadolin shippers!

Too late my friend I am already hERE WITH ALL MY BELLS ON let me dream for one hot minute

Quote

He looked out at the sea of eager faces, and couldn’t help but remember a similar day in Hearthstone where he and the rest of the townspeople had waited, eager to catch a glimpse of their new citylord.

My pal Kaladin, showing the brightlords of Roshar how it's done

4 minutes ago, Stark said:

Well, I think he did just become the Kholin Highprince, right?  He is Dalinar's heir, right?

Pretty sure he did. Doesn't this make him near immune to any legal consequences for Sadeas's death?

I'm always more convinced that the investigation will be more about futhering Adolin's character development than the plot.

9 minutes ago, robardin said:

"We are the Watchers at the Rim"

Oh. No.

 

did you.. mean to do that?

*dies*

34 minutes ago, Azul said:

Same here. Between this and Pattern checking out people in baths spren seem pretty pervy!

And to think there were people saying Kal and Shallan could never get along because their spren are too different *whistles innocently*

@Idealisticif Elhokar became a squire I would literally squeal. No shame here.

Also, I like this happier, more serene Adolin. I don't want him to fall or break. I don't even want him to be discovered. I want him to grow and learn, but I'm perfectly happy with it not being traumatic.

Okay guys so. I've had the crappiest afternoon. And yet!

*Adolin getting his wrist healed. Adolin thinking fondly about his blade. Adolin having Sureblood Feels

*Renarin with his Radiant Blade. Renarin and his brother bonding

*Elhokar stepping up, ready to become a better man

*Kaladin smiling

*Brandon throwing a bone to us Shalladin shippers after three years and a half, god bless his soul

*Things are well on their way to blowing  the hell up

This chapter trifecta was the best yet. And we're still, like, a third into part one. I'm so excited.

1 hour ago, DSC01 said:

I haven't been following the discussion over the weekend, so I'm totally lost, but I have to say, I think @maxal's idea that Adolin will sever his bond with his Blade and still be able to summon it is a good one.

It'd be nothing short of awesome.

I am torn because I believe that, writing-wise, it would be probably slightly better/ more balanced/ perhaps more satisfying for the purposes of the overall plot if Adolin stayed a badass normal, but I also really reaaaally love Adolin and I want him to revive his beautiful Edgedancer Blade that also probably loves him at least half as much as I do.

Just... imagine the sheer epic factor of it. His Blade picking him, just like Sureblood did. Well. I'm getting emotional only entertaining the possibility.

11 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

The problem of many knights appearing are:

1. Spren don' trust humans any more
2. Humans don't have the mentality for the 10 orders en masse. Obviously can find some good people around, but the vast majority seem incredibly unsuited to be radiants. Full of hate, lack of morality, no honor, selfishness, no code to follow etc

I see your point but I think we can't be reasonably sure about 2) - most of our main POVs and main/secondary characters are Alethi and the Alethi are a self-serving, bloodthirsty bunch, but perhaps other people on Roshar are more suited to be Radiants, especially those who don't follow Vorinism (although, of course... if they don't follow Vorinism, how much/what do they know about Radiants and Desolations?).

Anyway I'm expecting 1) to be the bigger problem. There are more sprens now, as per Pattern, but they will probably wait to see if the proto-Radiants are successful before crossing over, so I'm thinking the number of sprens willing to bond a future Radiant will start to really swell in a couple of years or so.

1 hour ago, Duke of Lizards said:

Good point!  I don't disagree!  I was simply saying it's more than just being Alethi.  I hope that my comment didn't sound like I was refuting that she was embracing his culture.  That wasn't what I was trying to say.  

Oh no definitely! I just brought it up because I find Vorinisn really fascinating. The religion itself is not very powerful -Ardents are subjects to sovereigns, and there is a certain level of secularity. And yet the practices derived from the religion are so incredibly pervasive in their culture. It's pretty interesting (and I it reminds me a lot of where I live, lol).

11 minutes ago, robardin said:

That's a bombshell and a half to me. Whoa.

 

The actual quote (in the comments to last week's chapters is)

Quote

someone asked Brandon if Dalinar will punish Adolin, to which he answered: Dalinar does not know, nobody knows, but he would if he did.

@salkara I'm taking that 'nobody knows' to mean that nobody, as of chapter 1 of OB knows that Adolin is the killer, which includes having seen him with Sadeas's blade the day he was murdered. Someone may have heard and went to investigate (I find it unlikely, contrived, and only means the killer didn't want Sadeas's very famous Blade, not that they have one of their own) but probably nobody saw Adolin throwing it.