taxilian

I was actually really not a fan of the potential that "triangle" had to lead to super stupid decisions and conflict in that trio... but I really liked the way it resolved. It resolved in a way that involved Shallan making a choice, realizing that Adolin understood -- and where he didn't understand, he accepted. That's something that Shallan has always needed, is someone who understands where possible, acknowledges that it's not always possible, and accepts her as she is. He's encouraging, but doesn't feel the need to try to "fix" everything for her, which would be a major problem from her perspective. The way it turned out made the whole thing a point of growth for all three; in short, I felt it was actually healthy, which is the exact opposite of about every other "love triangle" you see in fiction (and the reason I usually hate them).

That was all pretty fun -- it was awesome to hang out so much with so many other fans talking theory =] Just finished the book for the first time.... minor spoilers: it was awesome.

It seems pretty clear that they are talking about specifically capturing spren in a gemstone, and that it's a relatively recent discovery. The Listeners have known about the nahel bond for so many generations that it's in their learning songs as a betrayal. Eshonai grew up with the "old way" before they captured the spren, else she wouldn't find the "new way" so disturbing. I guess it's possible I'm misinterpreting, but it seems fairly clear to me.

Honor spren are splinters -- presumably of Honor -- and nightblood is a splinter (presumably a much larger splinter) of Endowment. It would make sense that there would be some shared characteristics. Nightblood can't be the "missing honorblade" because the honorblades predate Nightblood by a good bit, unless my understanding of the timeline is way off. In I-6 Vasher Zahel indicates that he hasn't heard a voice as he drifts off to sleep "in years", but I definitely don't think he meant "thousands of years". Nightblood definitely *is* a "shardblade" that has been awakened, we know that Vasher and whats-her-bucket awakened him with 1000 Breaths, but keep in mind that what just because he's a shardblade doesn't mean he is exactly like the shardblades on Roshar. My understanding of the term "shardblade" is "blade that is made of a splinter of a Shard". We know that honorspren are splinters, it isn't much of a stretch to assume that all spren capable of the nahel bond are likely also splinters of one form or another, so what makes them shardblades is actually that they carry the power of a shard, not the way they look, behave, or cut things.

I see. I don't think that what he means is that there was an external, Rosharen (or otherwise) influence that "twisted" nightblood, I think it's more due to the way that nightblood was created. We know that he was created with a Command, or a purpose -- "Destroy Evil". The part that makes him twisted I think is that he is a metal, inanimate object given power and sentience. He knows what his goal is, but doesn't have the point of reference to understand what "evil" actually is. We see a lot of evidence of this in Warbreaker.

Corrupted nightblood? Where do we have any evidence that nightblood has been corrupted?

Not so. Ym had to be either an edgedancer or a truthwatcher, since those are the two with the Progression surge (used for healing). Since we know someone confirmed to be in each of those two orders, Ym is therefore a duplicate... unless Renauren got his spren after he died, which I suppose is possible. However, assuming the timeframe in the books to be at all sequential, Renauren started showing signs of his Spren bond very early in the book (when Adolin first gave him the shardblade in fact) and well before we learn about Ym.

I'm not sure that "just" is a good description when you're talking about a splinter. Stormfather seems pretty obviously to be a splinter of honor, and WoB tells us that honorspren are also a splinter of Honor. Obviously Syl is a much smaller splinter than StormFather, as evidenced by their relative power. Still, Stormfather is constrained by the oaths or whatever else was set up by (Honor? Bondsmiths? The bondsmith herald? All of the above?) *All* spren seemed to be influenced by the belief of people. See the experiment measuring the flamespren -- and Brandon said at the WoR release signing that if they had written down a value that they believed to be true, even though it wasn't, that value would constrain the spren. However, it seems to me that the more powerful the spren the less it is influenced by those outside factors. Stormfather is a very powerful spren, so I'm sure that while he is influenced he still keeps mostly his own characteristics.

“Szeth leaped backward as the Shardbearer swung upward with his Blade, slicing into the ceiling. Szeth didn’t own a set of Plate himself, and didn’t care to. His Lashings interfered with the gemstones that powered Shardplate, and he had to choose one or the other.” Excerpt From: Brandon Sanderson. “The Way of Kings.” iBooks.

It is possible to be strong-willed in some instances and a coward in others. In this case, it required a very strong will to do what Szeth did, since he considered that to be the "honorable" thing to do. What was even harder -- and required more courage -- was to determine that what he had taken to be honorable was instead nothing of the kind and admit to the attrocities he had committed in the name of honor, believing that he was doing right.

Skybreakers are sticklers for the law -- Brandon has stated that the skybreakers wouldn't like what he did (I don't have the exact quote right now, but you can find it if you look). If you look at what we see of Nalan he very carefully kills legally. He becomes a constable so that he's able to "legally" work in the country, and then he only kills those who have broken a law or whatever. If anything, I strongly suspect Adolin could be targeted by the skybreakers for having done that.

If the knights who gave up plate and shard were following their vows then the blades at the very least would not have "died". We dont' know for sure what shardplate is, though I suspect it's in some way related to the blade, but we know for sure that blades are dead spren. If the vows were kept, the spren wouldn't be dead, therefore they wouldn't still be around as dead shardblades.

I don't see anything there (and there is nothing in the context around it either that indicates that it was learned by spies, though that would be an easy assumption to make. It's in I-4 maybe 2 or 3 pages in (I'm looking in the ebook) if you want to look at it yourself. Further, I can only see two possible areas where the Alethi might be capturing spren: 1) fabrials, though I'm not sure the humans realize that they are capturing spren for those and I'm not 100% sure that's what's happening anyway, I just suspect it, and 2) Gavilar's black sphere. Hard to say if either of those is for sure an example of capturing spren, but I can't see anything else that could be.

It's very unlikely that the Cultivation that is alive is different from the original holder. I think it's pretty clear, seeing as how Hoid knows all of the original shard holders, that Cultivation is still alive and around.

Also worth considering (when talking about the possibility that a voidspren was/is in the crystal) is that the Eshonai indicates that they learned that it's possible to capture a spren in a gemstone from the humans

The sword that Nalan gives to Szeth at the end is absolutely Nightblood; I don't think there is even any reasonable room for doubt in this. Evidence: Brandon has told people that we will eventually find out what happens when Nightblood strikes a shardblade Vasher (as Zahel) is on Roshar, and he has lost Nightblood. (See Interlude-6; cranky swordsman with lifesense: all his analogies relate to colors, and he mentions being really really old. Also, Peter has reportedly confirmed that it's Vasher. For proof that he's lost nightblood, take the fact that he doesn't seem to have it and add that as he goes to sleep he's expecting to hear a voice in his head, but [hasn't heard it] for years.) Adolin specifically mentions that he can see the Thrill in Eshonai's eyes and uses its effects to distract her while he maneuvers her towards the edge, allowing him to defeat her by knocking her into the Chasm. Thus, the Thrill is still around, but for some reason isn't affecting Adolin anymore.

This theory seems a little further out than many I can think of, but I'm definitely not ready to rule it out. If the black sphere somehow holds Nergaoul then it might explain that coincidence. On the other hand, if that's the case then it's been in Jah Kaved for over 10 years and it only just at the end of Words of Radiance seems like it's starting to fade; of course, that could be the influence of the radiants or something else. The shattered plains are on the opposite side of Alethkar from Jah Kaved, so you'd think that if would be more noticeable if it moved. Also, Taravangian seems to be at least somewhat in kahoots or possibly even leading Gavilar's old group -- this is definitely supposition, but there is a strong connection at any rate through Gavilar -- so it seems likely that he would have known that Gavilar had it. Interesting thoughts.

At the end of the prologue to the Way of Kings, Gavilar gives Szeth a "crystalline sphere" which Szeth then hides and only mentions once in passing later on in the book. I don't remember any mention of it at all in Words of Radiance; is there anything else known about it? Did I miss something? Or are we still waiting?

I completely agree with the logic about the scope of ability of stormlight to heal, but it's worth considering the question of whether or not that "mild case of Autism" is actually a disease/problem/whatever. It's quite possible that it would heal his epilepsy, that being an actual disability, but leave everything else, as that could be viewed less as a disease and more as simply part of who he is. Stormlight obviously hasn't cured Kaladin's tendency to be cranky... autism may not be something that stormlight would interact with as something needing to be healed. I'm a computer nerd and fantasy book geek, Shallan is an obsessive artist, and Renarin is mildly autistic. I just don't imagine stormlight would change any of that =]

All other considerations aside, Renarin is an obvious candidate for a spren bond whereas adolin obviously isn't. See the quotes mentioned here: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/5637-spiritual-aspects-and-the-importance-of-a-broken-soul/ We see several places in WoR that a "wounded soul" makes it easier and is perhaps even required for a spren bond to form. In retrospect, this is perhaps that strongest argument I can think of that Lopen would be just a "squire" and not a full bonded knight, but I digress. Renarin has spent his whole life feeling inadequate, feeling like he's not the man that he ought to be. Whether you agree with his reasoning or decisions or not, you can't despute that he's been through a lot of hard stuff -- even if some of it is his fault, and regardless of where he lies on an autistic scale. The point is that he has the requisite mental and spiritual wounds to let in a spren bond. Adolin doesn't. He's lived a relatively easy life. Granted, that may well be changing, but up 'til this point he doesn't seem to have any of the trauma in his past that characterizes *all* of the other bonded people in the story.

Good point. I had forgotten about that. I still think there is something fishy there, though =]

Hoid seems pretty convinced that the everstorm is going to hit Shinovar and that it'll be problematic -- that's good enough for me. As to the stone shamans, worth remembering that they have most (if not all) of the unaccounted-for honorblades. Presumably that is where Szeth got his, and presumably how he learned how to use it. Remember that Szeth was completely certain that the shin stone shamans would come retrieve his blade when he died, despite the fact that anything that can kill Szeth is nothing to trifle with...

I have to admit, my greatest disappointment with that is that when he finished the lesson he didn't say "when next we meet I expect you to have mastered that!"

Your memory is definitely a little rusty =] Vasher and Denth's sister (2 of the 5 scholers) created Nightblood using 1000 breaths and the command "destroy evil". (See the coppermind) Also, in the end of I-6 you see that "Zahel" is expecting a voice in his head as he drifts off to sleep, but "Hadn’t been one in years.” To me this was the final proof that Zahel is Vasher, because that seems pretty clearly to be referring to Nightblood's voice in his head.

I agree that it's not unlikely that he may have a spren that he hasn't learned about yet, but what I'm actually more interested in is the way he is suddenly referred to as "the Lopen" instead of just "Lopen". If he were calling himself that I'd pass it off as him being, well, Lopen, but the narration calls him that. Also, I believe this is the first Lopen viewpoint that we have. Throughout this book I'm finding more and more about Lopen that seems out of place. For instance, if he's as well connected in weird ways as he seems to be, how exactly did he end up as a one-armed bridgeman? I mean, seriously, he smuggles things in and out, turns out he can successfully hide the king from an entire warcamp who is looking for him, and he seems to be gathering "cousins" at a prodigious rate... and now we see him called "the Lopen" like it's some sort of title. I don't think these are really cousins he's talking about, I think this is something more going on.