Pattern

I have tried that, there is only one explicit sample given. I have posted it somewhere in this thread, but it looked much like a dead end. To summarize: There were quintets of letters, three of which would be used by the ghostbloods at the beginning of a correspondence (first three words beginning with those three letters) and letter 4 and five would by used by Tyn (selection from the quintet which was started). Thats no "code" but just an authentication procedure. @Aminar: Shallan has many sheets of spanreed paper from earlier correspondences, which are not shown to the reader. Earlier conversations are not shown from the beginning, but only lots of stuff the Ghostbloods write. They would write that stuff only after authenitcation was successful, right? @Harakeke: Looks like you moved your post about the frostish map. Did you also do the numbers/letters on the border of the map? What I didn't see on that map some days ago were the lines across the map. Lines running from top to bottom connect the same symbols (geographical lenght). But: There are 5 different sets of lines which intersect in one point. 1.) North of Shattered Plains 2.) Southeast of scipt "KR" from Alethkar 3.) left border of the map, same geographical width as The Shalllow Crypts 4.) small one South West corner 5.) on ocean, above "STHRN" There is one line in each set connecting the same numbers on top and bottom of the map - that would again be meridian. The other lines marking directions. The "south line" of the biggest compass rose ends on the bottom line on "°". From this point, 4 readable symbols are ordered symmetrically (naming degrees east and west from 0-Meridian). Therefore I would propose as translation table for numbers: Ok, can that help us to crack the code? I don't know. Perhaps we can translate numbers to Thaylen symbols, look which Alethi glyphs can be built from them, take their sound (like on Amarams maps, stormwarden script) and build hopefully English words with them. Edit: Ah, I've found your thread abouth Thaylen script and Alethi glyphs. Very nice job there: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/6487-thaylen-and-alethi-glyph-translation-spoilers/page-2

Unfortunately there is no "ode to the carved bedside table" in the epigraphs. In search for a key there are several possibilities: 1.) Epigraphs of part 5 (perhaps also the others, but I like to keep it "simple") 2.) Taravangian Interlude 3.) Graves passages (he wants to introduce Moash to the diagram, so he is related to Taravangian) 4.) Information about Cryptics (Patterns name and his state before bonding can only be described by numbers properly) 5:) Amaram chapters - he seems to know a lot he shouldn't Edit: 6.) The Ketek on Navani's notebook Since it's getting late, more tomorrow - perhaps I get an apricity-like dream ;-) @Harakeke: Did you make progress with Alethi glyphs?

In fact I have already written the number on a piece of paper in spiral fashion to look what happens. Unfortunately this is much more arbitrary that the breaking up to number pairs or whatever. Going this path I could create a lot of pictures to decorate my room ;-) Going back to pattern1 and pattern 15: In pattern 1 there are capital letters for the beginning of a new sentence or in proper names. One could write every sentence in a new line .At the beginning of the thread, 111 has been identified as suspicious. It could be the marker for a new sentence or a captial letter. Writing both patterns like this yield: Obviously they are fools The Desolation needs no usher It can and will sit where it wishes and the signs are obvious that the spren anticipate it doing so soon The Ancient of Stones must finally begin to crack It is a wonder that upon his will rested the prosperity and peace of a world for over four millennia 111 82-5 -10 111 27-12-49-15-12-10-10 111 41-02-15-11-71-12-10 111 21-71-34-48-3 111 07-15-14-25-41-43-41-09-16-14-91-49-34-12-12-25-41-01-01-25-12-71-01-51-9-10 111 23-41-25-51-15-25-12-15-75-5 111 23-4 -10 111 29-15-12-10-61-53-4 In pattern 15, obviously not every 111 can denote a new sentence. And perhaps "10" end a sentence. It's a bit flawed, since there is a double "10" and there are some "111"s not preceded by a "10". Palindromes/possible keteks are also destroyed in this point of view. I don't really like this decomposition, since there are sometimes residual numbers, sometimes not. Doing the line break only if 111 is preceded by 10 yields: 111 825 -10 111 271249151210-10 111 410215117112-10 111 217134483111071514254143410916149149341212254101012512710151910 111 2341255115251215755111234 -10 111 2915121061534 Another aspect could be that we actuallly have a mathematical series. One of Taravangians intelligence tests? Description of cryptics before bonding a human? (reference p.888 hardcover)

A little bit back to glyphs, whether it's useful or not: I skimmed a bit through WoR and found the 10 basic glyphs (they are on Elhokars Shardsword) on page 513. (Shallan's sketchbook: Shardplate). On the other hand stanzas of Parshendi songs reminded me somehow of the code, but I cannot grasp it properly. Have to look into that somewhen during the weekend. p 211; 15th stanza; Listener Song of Listing p 219; 5th stanza; Listener Song of Listing p 227; 19th stanza; Listener Song of Listing p 233; 27th stanza; Listener Song of Listing p 246; final stanza; Listener Song of Listing p 258; 69th stanza; Listener Song of Listing p 272; 90th stanza; Listener Song of Listing p 279; 33rd stanza; Listener Song of Listing p 286; 4th stanza; Listener Song of Winds p 298; 17th stanza; Listener Song of Secrets p 303; 27th stanza; Listener Song of Secrets p 314; 127th stanza; Listener Songof Histories p 325; 55th stanza; Listener Song of Wars p 338; 40th stanza; Listener Song of Secrets p 346; 279th stanza; Listener Song of Revision p 355; 12th stanza; Listener Song of Histories p 362; 51th stanza; Listener Song of Secrets p 368; 9th stanza; Listener Song of Spren p 377; 10th stanza; Listener Song of Spren p 385; final stanza; Listener Song of Secrets

Thats what I wanted to say - the design seems to be very deliberate. Glyphs are more like pictures than script. Like Egyptian Hieroglyphs. And still different. Assigning a number - therefore the code to glyphs looks to me quite difficult. I fear we are drifting to another problem - decrypting glyphs, instead of solving the code...

At least the splitting is well defined. I also have tried substitution (and back we are), but didn't get something proper of it. Concerning Glyphs: I am not quite sure if they can be "constructed" properly. There seems to be much freedom in shaping the glyphs. You can see this with the "Alight, wind approach deadly approaching winds alight" ketek: "The glyphs of the ketek were drawn in the shape of two storms crashing into one another" - implying they could also have been written in another form, probably keeping the connections but stretching in one direction and squeezing in another (mapping via diffeomorphism). This morphability can also be seen with the bridgemen tattoos. Glyphs seem to have been reshaped, so that the total tattoo is somewhat aestetic. Edit: Harakeke is on a very promising approach to build glyphs... Especially "Kholin" glyph and "Tanat" being nearly mirror images of each other disturbs me, since in WoK the "kholin" glyph has been described as glyphpair "khokh" + "linil" looking like a tower and a crown. "Tanat" would be a single glyph, since it is a palindrome. There is either a mistake or glyphs are all but fixed.

Do I get it right, that Thaylen script is vowel-free (like Hebrew)? Ok, to get a feeling for the Thaylen/frostish script I meditated a bit on the map on p.138. Having done it I find it a bit strange, that m/n share a rune while s has two different runes. That v/w, c/k and p/f share a rune is not so strange thinking of original latin and greek alphabets. Sh has one rune, while Th is a compound of the runes of T and h. Now I go on to "scroll of stances", p 218 On this scroll every glyph is symmetric relative to central vertical axis - If we want to construct a glyph from Thaylen graphemes, one half should be enough. (left or right??) (Glyph Pair for Kholin is Khokh Linil, spoken is only the first half, well, Tower and Crown for those glyphs doesn't fit, those are probably stylized versions, see tWoK...Tower and Crown description from WoK does not fit to Bridge 4 tattoo sketch) on page 83 I would read glyphs for sas in thaylen grapheme -> latin as SS W ( SS mirrored) nahn: ? N/M (N/M ? mirrored) shash: (Sh, Sh mirrored + horizontal oriented lines)

Every "holy" name in Vorin culture is a palindrome, so this could be significant! Silver Kingdoms: Iri, Aimia, Sela Tales, Rishir, Thalath, Natanatan, Alethela, Valhav, Shin Kak Nish, Makabakam Then: Urithiru (th=1 letter in Alethibet) Further, keteks are palindromes. The one from WoR being "Alight, winds approach deadly approaching winds alight." and "Above silence, the illuminating storms - dying storms - illuminate the silence above." "Radiant / of birthplace / the announcer comes / to come announce / the birthplace of Radiants." from tWoK. -151-9-101112-34-12-5511-52512157-5511-12-34-101112-9-151- leaks perfect symmetry, so it's probably not a name (except 52512157 stands for 1 letter), but symmetrical ordered words - a candidate for a ketek. 111825 -101112-71249-151-2-10-101114-10-2-151-17112-101112- 1713448311107-151-4254-14341-09-161-49-1-49-341-212-254-10101-2512710 -151-9-101112-34-12-5511-52512157-5511-12-34-101112-9-151- 21061534 the middle part looks awful, still

Since I the thread becomes quite long, I collect the passages from the epigraphs which could be interesting. I leave out the every 2nd-letter messages. Obviously they are fools The Desolation needs no usher It can and will sit where it wishes and the signs are obvious that the spren an- ticipate it doing so soon. The Ancient of Stones must finally begin to crack It is a wonder that upon his will rested the prosperity and peace of a world for over four millennia 2nd Ceiling Rotation: pattern 1 11182510111271249151210101114102151171121011121713 44831110715142541434109161491493412122541010125 1271015191011123412551152512157551112341011129151 21061534 2nd Ceiling Rotation pattern 15 Assuming the Diagram is somewhat coherent, the content of the code should relate to pattern 1. The problem here: patterns 2-14 are missing. Considering capital letters: capitals in pattern 1 are used at the beginning of a sentence an in names. So it's "The Desolation" and "The Ancient of Stones" (Talenel)

AhbuttheywereleftbehindItisobviousfromthenatureofthebondButwherewherewhereSetoffObviousRealizationlikeapricity TheyarewiththeShinWemustfindoneCanwemaketouseaTruthlessCanwecraftaweapon - From the Diagram, Floorboard 17: paragraph 2, every second letter starting with the first TherehastobeananswerWhatistheanswerStopTheParshendiOneofthemYestheyarethemissingpiecePushfortheAlethi todestroythemoutrightbeforethisoneobtainstheirpowerItwillformabridge - From the Diagram, Floorboard 17: Paragraph 2, every second letter starting with the second AhabersiewurdenzurückgelassenDurchdiebeschaffenheitderverbindungistesoffensichtilichAberwowowoBetonungOffensichtlich ErkenntniswiediewärmederwintersonneSiesindbeidenShinWirmüsseneinsfindenSchaffenwireseinenUnwahrenzubenutzen Könnenwireinewaffeschmieden EsmusseineantwortgebenWasistdieantwort?HalteDieParshendiaufEinervonihnenJasiesinddasfehlendegliedDrängedieAlethisie sofortzuzerstörenbevordiesereineihremachterlangt.Siewirdeinebrückebilden. There's a rather sloppy translation to German. As you see, the lenght of the messages differs even more. Had I used synonyms, again different lenghts would have resulted...

Additionally, the translations from Taravangians language to Alethi to English could result in the different lenghts of the messages from Floorboard 17, Paragraph 2. The possibility to encode the translated text in every other language hints to a letter to number substitution and not something like a word to number or syllable to number encryption. Although that would be possible, it would be quite complicated to perform. Also a mapping to text positions would make a hard time for translators. Grammar of languages could also be a problem, so that word mappings would yield grammatical nonesense. I think there is a mapping (plaintext string) -->(ciphertext string of digits) without the neccessity to work on the whole translated book.

While the forum was down I had some time to read. In Taravangians interlude it gets clear that the diagram consists of sketches, strings of numbers and many lines written in Taravangian's invented script. The key to this script was carved into the bedside table by Taravangian himself, so that the diagram could be deciphered. Notations in the books then are in Alethi woman-script. So, obviously we cannot assume that every epigraph has been coded the same way as our Code. The questions that arise are: Why did T. write something in plaintext (in his invented script, for more precise language) and other stuff coded as a number. What did he want to hide, why did he want to hide it, whom did he want to hide it from? Answers to these questions - or probable guesses - could help with decoding.

Right, I'm getting inconsistent. Arguments against Alethi letters apply of course also to glyphs.

@ Emmi: Nice summary. It contains lot of stuff, that occured during substituting numbers to letters - especially the "101112". But, with letters I didn't come along. I am quite sure, that repetitions of number series are not random. At least the longer ones. They could represent words, without forming them via letters. Palindromes is a new idea - i think nobody in this thread has had it before. It's worth looking into! What about Palindromes representing glyphs? Glyphs are symmetrical, I think and we have some glyphs written/drawn in the book. The third appearance of 101112 is overlapping with the first 1112341.

I think we should try both: looking in WoR for hints - though I have absolutely no idea what to look for, and additionally trying to crack the code as self contained. Still it could be a mapping code. The greatest problem is, that we have just a string of numbers. Reading it first I was reminded of a pavillion in China which I visited years ago: There was Pi (3.1415....) written under the roof in many circles beginning in the center of the ceiling and spiralling outward. Since it is confirmed to be a code, this can be dropped ;-) Though...the string of numbers is called "Pattern 15" - well a string is no pattern, at least not a nice one... Tyn's correspondence: Shallan frowned, inspecting the sheets. In each one, the first words came from the remote writer. [...]Tyn replied simply each time. "They form groups of five," Pattern said."Quintets, the letters. Mmm. Each message follows a pattern- first three words start with one each of three of the quintet of letters. Tyns reply, the two that match." Sender: "I think some information I have today will work" Shallan: "But you said that last time" This gives us one quintet: ITSBY Unfortunately the other correspondences via spanreed are not complete, so there is no more information to be dug out. So that's probably a dead end. I try to apply that to the other epigraphs - without knowing how it can help to crack the code... They will come you cannot... TWCYC One danger in deploying such... ODIDS Ah but they were left ABTWL Q:For what essential must we strive? A: The essential of Preservation FWEMW or FWETE Q:What cost must we bear? A: The cost is irrelevant and WCMTC You must become king. Of everything YMBKO The Unmade are a deviation, ... TUAAD There is one you will watch.... TIOYW Obviously they are fools. The Desolation... OTAFT [ "code" ] But who is the wanderer... BWITW One is most certainly a... OIMCA Chaos in Alethkar is, of... CIAIO [Dates] There has to be an... THTBA Well, I think this doesn't bring us anywhere. But also failure is a progress. You know what it is NOT...

In German they exist since 2011. So perhaps the first translations will be out quite soon. But: we got the information, that we have everything to crack the code. So there is no hunt for pieces of code on book signings - which would be difficult to attend to for Europeans. Let's crack it!

Thank you, I'll give it some tries. @Travis1984: I think the Stormfather is only written in bold letters, when he is angry, which is quite often the case. @Yalb: Let's look, how pattern did it in the book...will be back later. And another idea obtained in sleep: The code is from the 2nd ceiling rotation. Where did they begin transscribing it? What happens, if one writes the numbers in a circle?

I am really curious, how this could will look like in translated books... But hopefully, we'll have solved this until then.

Just as is could be ok - since I don't know what it does. A short instruction would be nice. Otherwise I ran out of ideas. Helpful would be, if we could guess some pieces of plaintext. Therefore, what has been written about in all epigraphs and what is still missing? I don't beliebe, the code is just a repetition of the other stuff. Keywords could be tried to decipher the code. The problem we have is to split the code into coded letters (btw, could also be syllables). This is possible in many ways and each possibility has to be decoded. But - feel free and give it a try ;-)

At least you still have humour... Considering Floorboard 17: I don't think we can deduce anything from it - the shorter message could be cut, only gibberish after the readable stuff, etc. Perhaps Capitals can be used as a key to 2nd Ceiling rotation, Pattern 15.

At the moment I don't know how to run the script, but I can learn - what do I need? I was wondering how the code would look in translations of WoR (e.g German)...

A ciphertext attack without knowing the encryption algorithm and key. That's what we are doing. Mapping into epigraphs could mean a mapping to letters or even to words. Stays the problem of splitting our 154 digits. So, I've got some real work to do, I'll be back in the evening. Perhaps someone finds out which algorithm has been used, at least ;-)

The answer to that is quite simple: I don't know how to work a prefix code, so I tried substitution which looked feasible enough. Assign a key to a number and there you go. Unfortunately it turns out to be more complicated...

Yeah, possible. Or it's simple and we are just too blind to see it. Of course it can be as difficult as you can imagine, but that no good assumtion to solve it ;-)

Ok, do I get this right? Homophonic substitution smears out the statistical distribution of letters. The code parsed to numbers from 1 to 25(26) yields a distribution which fairly renders a distribution in English. (not exactly, but that is not expected with approximately 100 signs) Therefore I would disband homophonic substitution