WitSpren

OK, where do we see/get this complete Yolen story? I found an opening chapter thing but not the whole thing, like people are referencing here. Could someone post a link or something?

Just thinking - Renarin is Progression and Illumination. Wasn't that what YM was. Does this mean that Renarin inherited Ym's Spren? When was Ym killed in relation to Renarin starting to hear the Dead Blade screams?

& @ Khyrindor I hardly think that the original title of this tread was significantly Spoilery. It did not even mention any specific names or KR types & it could have really ment anything. The only ones that could actually extrapolate who and what KRs were involved would be those that have actually read WoR. For someone who had not read WoR it could have ment anything - like - 4-5 new KRs beyond Kal/Shallan/Jasna. or even something else. Much better to monitor the many blatently WoR spoilers posted directly in the Stormlite Archive, like "Parshendi that refused Stormform" and others. If you strip every title in the WoR fourm down so much it becomes unfunctional to the point of annoying Just my opinion.

KR Training. OK we have 5 KRs now. Kaladen - Gravitation and Adhesion - Mostly self trained. Shellan - Transformation and Illumination Renarin - Progression and Illunination Delinar - Adhesion and Tension So Kal can train Delinar on Adhesion (Probably not until he gets back from Hearthome.) Shellan can train Renarin on Illumination. If Jasna ever gets back, she can finally teach Shallan on Soulcasting. With Shellan’s book as a guide, Renerin can start practicing Re-growth on Adolin, the Bridgemen and all the other injured people at Uriteru. And Delinar can use the book as well to work on his Tension. Surely, with someone to teach you, it sould go a lot faster now - Right? So are we going to see some real Surgebinding progress in the next book? Also, how about getting to word out to the world. If you know someone who is talking to Spren - Send them to US!!! ALSO - will they start actually start telling each other things?? Shallan. "Say Brightlord Radiant Delinar, we have a very bad Ghostblood infestation here in Uritheru. I just thought you should know." Edited to add "Spoiler Warning"

Well, I personally am a little harder on Mosh and Kal for trying to kill Elhokar. The more that you think about it, the stupider it is. Elhokar - may not be great, but he is trying and now taking advice from Delinar. First - Maintaining him in place is a major act for stability which is important. Second - Both the assassian in white AND many of the other Highprinces want Delinar dead. Third - If Delinar was killed - who would be the next in line - Not Adolin - he's mostly good, but he is not the leader that his dad is and would already have his hands full as the Brightlord of his fathers estates. Fourth - With both Elhokar and Delinar gone - who would REALLY take over. If you need a small himt, his name starts with Sad and ends with eas. They both know that at least TWO MAJOR forces are already working to take down Delinar. So killing Elhokar is basically giving the kingdom to Sadeas. That is just so so stupid! Who has the weakest army at this time - Delinar! Who is considered to be massively delusinary and mentially unstable - Delinar If Elhokar was dead, Sadeas would immediately move from trying to assassinate Delinar to a short quick overpowering military attack to take down the Mad dog - for the GOOD of the country. He already had most of the Highprinces in control. Who would even try to stop him - No one! I can see Moash being this stupid and blinded by his hate. But Kal is supposed to be a pretty bright character and very insightful. But he did not show it here. Edited to add additional justification:

Szeth is headed there now & I do not expect it to go well for all the Truthless Stone Shamans. Also an Everstorm is about to hit them from the wrong direction, so the Shin will be in Big general trouble as well. Shinovar is poorly adapted for Highstorms. They have regular animals - chickens/horses and plants +++ that are not Highstorm adapted because the Highstorms that normally reach Shinovar have mostly worn out. The Everstorm, will be coming from the wrong direction & Killing Earth like Plants & animals & converting Parishmen. Does Shinovar have many Parishmen? I do not remember, but even if they don't - It will not be a good time in Shinovar tonight.

Well, considering that she just took a very bad tumble into a Chasm, right before a dual Highstorm and Everstorm event. AND she had her Cometspren constantly pestering her. I would guess that there is a significant chance that the fall might have sufficiently incapacitated her to allow the Cometspren penetrate her and kick out the Voidspren. Unfortunately, we have a long wait to see what really happens.

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!! I have seen this before, but could not find it!

Isn't there a newer - more developed Surge Graph that is out now? I ran several searches, but can't find it here or one the Wiki link. Could someone give me the link?

Kal can't go hauling the extra Honorblade with him everywhere. Especially, when going to Hearthstone, where he is going to be really busy. For that matter, he is going to always be really busy for the forseable future. So what can he do with it? He can't just leave it laying around, waiting to be stolen. Also, the Listeners and deserted Parishmen need to be taken care of. To leave the Parishmen unattendended, is to basically ask for an even greater disaster. So why not give the Honorblade to Rlain and "Charge" him with gathering the Parishmen and protecting them from "Both" storms. Hopefully, while he is doing that, he can find the runaway Listeners as well and help protect them as well. The best place that I can think of to have them go - would be Serbial's warcamp, which had rounded roofs so it would be protected from both East and West directions. Rlain carrying the Honorblade & flying around would "extrude" a lot of inherent "authority" with any humans, parishmen and Listeners that he ran into. They might even give him a "Writ" from the King to provide a little extra authority with any humans that he might run into. OK - I already know that this is a really LONG shot, far fetched theory. But it does tie up many loose ends from the end of WoR: - Abandoned Parishmen - (Potential Voidbringers if not addressed) - Runaway Listeners & children. - (Potential Voidbringers if not addressed) - the Honorblade - Serbiel's unique compound, with its rounded corners and multi-level basements. - Rlain - Bringing the two races together in a cooperative manner. - Bringing the two races together under the Kings Banner like Gaviler wanted to do 6+ years ago. - Showing a huge level of trust between the two races. - Undermine - the escaped Converted Voidbringers authority and excuse for forcing additional (runaway) Listener conversions Again, I do not see this as being very likely. But it would be a massive step toward solving a lot of these issues. The more likely thing to happen is for Kal to give the Honorblade to Delinar (who - per Stormfather - will have no Shards. Also: Do you think that the Honorblade will activate the Oathgate? My guess is that it will.

Well, actually she has needed combat training quite a few times already. At least five that I can think of. Mother, father, the ship, with the deserters, Tyn and 2 chasemfiends. She managed to survive those situations, and at least one (the deserter confrontation) came out better than if she had had fought her way out. But the fact remains that if she had been an experienced Shardbearer in all those situations, the results would mostly have been better. Of course she was too young and only used the Shardblade by reflex with the mother & the man, but if she had been able to form the "shield" everywhere her mother attacked, then she would not have had to kill her. Or if she had pulled the 6' blade earlier & waved it around a little - I'm sure that the man & her mother would have backed off. Her brother showed that her father could quickly control his temper when confronted with a 6' Blade. With the ship, she could have easily saves several lives, by being ready and able to fight. She could have stabbed the 6' blade through the door & killed at least 3 of the attackers & the others would have most likely fled. With the deserters, the the blade in practiced hands would have been a far better back-up plan to what she did (which was great but could have failed). Mostly, the same with Tyn. Tyn was whipping her butt, Shallan should understand the basics of defending herself. A longer halberd or bigger Shardblade weapon from the crevice that they were hiding in, could have killed the thing without exposing either Shallan or Kal to being killed. Last of all, she can't be sure of always having Stormlight to save herself.

Or the Queen could bring his 4 year old proto-KR true born son to Uritheru where the son puts both of them down Shallan style. If Shallan is there, she can even sing him a nice lullaby....... Just a thought.

Yes, Kaladen has been angry all the time for the last book and a half, and Kaladen did make a lot of bad decisions this book and he did whine a lot internally and some externally. OH!! You were talking about Elhokar - Yea! Him too!!! What I'm saying is that, this is part of why I like this book so much. ALL the characters seem to be screwing up a LOT in realistic ways. They do not always make the right decisions (BIG understatement here), but they do eventually get where they need to be. They learn and grow. I think it is a much better characterization, than a lot of books. I loved Elhokar's visit and talk with Kal. He is in, way over his head as king, but he is trying like hell and grasping at straws, trying to figure out how to become a better king. He knows he has problems, but he is trying to do the right thing - learn how to be a better leader. I think that he will be a KR of some sort. He does qualify as "broken" and working his way back. And the Spren he sees in the corner of his eye and mirrors, seems to add to it. But if BS does not choose to make him a KR, that is OK also. I do think that he will become a better king. I think his stay with the Herdazians might actually be good for him - by getting a better "rapore" with the common people. @signspace13 I think that we are at the point that we should take statements by all the Spren with a grain of salt. I'm sorry I do not have time to dig out all the "miss-statements" of all the different Spren. But there have been a lot. A few examples though: Syl - I am the only Honor Spren ------- as long as you ignore the Big Guy - Stormfather. Pattern - All the bonded Spren died - well except for Stormfather and a few others. Stormfather - You killed her - there is nothing that you can do. Syl - Parshendi can't bond Spren

The Infedelity is referenced in the Lhan Interlude. The second is probably just an assumption based on the first

From WoR, Delinar's last POV at the end. Stormfather says that he will not give Delinar any shardS. This, to me, means that all the Shardblades and Shardplate come from a KRs Spren. Also, at the end of Kal's fight with the Assassian, it mentions that he sees Syl, while he is holding his (Syl) spear. Moments later he sees other Windspren. But it never says that he mistook them for her. Also, earlier he had thought that he could easily differentiate her from other Windspren. (Sorry - not exact quotes) So she can double manufest. I believe that in another level or so, he will get his "Plate" Shallan may already "qualify" but has not had a need yet. Edited to add: The reason that Shardplate does not "scream" is that it is mostly used to protect, where Shardblades are used only to "Kill" and not for good reasons. So that "part" of the Spren is screaming in pain, from having to "unwillingly" kill.

Sorry guys, I should have added this to the original post. It was late & I was sloppy/forgetful. Part of my reasoning - that Shallan should be getting it at this level, or soon, is that Kal, who is now down one level down from Shallan. During his Shattered Plains fight with the assassin, was getting from Syl, intermittently (at need) the Blade (sometimes spear sometimes real blade) and a form fitting Shield, where ever he needed it. Without him even consciously asking for it. She just anticipated his need and became that. If she can already be a shield - it is only one more step to become the Whole Body Shield (Shardplate) - that makes the other unnecessary. The only part that does not does not yet FIT this is that the Shardblades - scream when touched by a proto-KR. The only thing that I can think of, that would cause this, is that the Shardplate part of the Spren has only been used to PROTECT - which is not harmful to the dead Spren. But the Shardblades have been used repeatedly to kill (evil type killing)that actually hurts that part of the Spren. This ties in with my theory that in order to awaken a dead Spren. You have to have the matching Shardplate and Shardblade and be of the mental comparably for that type of KR, AND then develop a connection with it. Maybe like Adolin's Talks.

So, does she now get Shardplate from her Spren? Or does she need One more Truth?

Sure! Just like Amaram is Squeeky Clean and Mr T is a Saint. Sadeas has proven that he can and will do everything in his power to bring down the Kholins. Sure, at this point he waould probably fail, but why give him the chance to prove you wrong..

100% He held out much longer than I would have. And it would not have taken any "Snapping" to send me in that direction. If you see a lion coming at you, after you see it take down thousands of others. It is time to get off your axxx and put the thing down. The only difference is, that I would not have felt ANY (not the tinest bit) of the guilt that I think that Adolin will in the next book.

What about that one that Mraize mentioned when Shallan was hiding in the bolder. "This creature in Tukar, however is different. I'm not convinced he is human. If he is, he's certainly not of the local species...." What is mraize and what/who is "the creature"?

I agree completely. Most of the difference between WoK and WoR is that we mostly just got Dalinar's POV opinions on Sadeas. Even then, other people saw Sadeas differently than Dalinar & he had to convince them that Sadeas was a good man, Dalinar was fooling himself. But we learned better at the end of WoK and it was completely confirmed in WoR. Odium might be an influance, but if so, he did not have far to go with Sadeas.

My view is that the Nightwatcher gives a Curse dependent on how selfish the requested Boon is. And per the Text (sorry no book/page reference - just memory) at one time Delinar was very Jelious of his brother. Both for the Crown and his brother's wife. He specifically thinks of a time that he considered fighting (and maybe killing) his brother. I think that he loved his brother very much and in one of his more sane times, he went to the Nightwatcher to get the Boon of not wanting his brother's Crown or wife. The Nightwatcher saw this as a very unselfish Boon, so she gave him a very minor Curse of forgetting his dead wife. The lack of desire for the Crown has presisted past his brother's death, but does not extend to his brother's Widow. She is no longer his broyther's wife.

Do you have pages on those? just so we can see the context. The first one seems to be after she broke but before her mom tried to kill her. But the second one seems spot on! Or at least the first clue with what I think is real potential. Of course that could just be gullable me!

Quote Shallan’s POV WoR US Hardcover Pg 1059: “He let everyone believe that he’d killed her,” Shallan whispered. “That he’d murdered his wife and her lover in a rage, when I was the one who had actually killed them. He lied to protect me.” “I know.” “That secret destroyed him. It destroyed our entire family.” WoR (Red Carpet Once White): “Father gathered her into his arms, and she felt her skin squirming. No. No, this affection wasn’t right. A monster should not be held in love. A monster who killed, who murdered. No.” From those two POVs there is no indication that her father ever had any problem before the incident. To the contrary, he appeared to be very caring and loving. Only after did it “Destroy him”. That said, we have nothing in the text to gage her mother. Well nothing other than that her mother and the other man were trying to kill Shallan at that event. We do not even know what her mother thought that Shallan was. Voidbringer? KR? Surgebinder? My guess is a KR, but we can’t be sure.

Thank you KK. I did not think to look as the Epigraph. I was looking in his chapter. You are surely correct, but I'm not sure what it means. It might not be a reason to exclude Elhobar. It could mean the they killed a potential/proto KR. Or it could mean the as he got close to dying/he was crossing to the cognitive realm. But you could be correct as well. it is interesting.