WitSpren

Seriously, I have to say, completely truthfully, that WoR is absolutely the WORST book that I have ever READ 15 to 20 times in two months. I mean – look at it- Doesn’t that look like terrible condition after being hauled to work, break rooms, buses, diners, waiting rooms, gyms, rain, hail, snow, Highstorms, community meetings, walks in the park and a few other places over 60+ days. Surely, the book should hold up better than that! This book is Totally falling apart!! Even after I Hot Glued it 3 times. And I am not done torturing it yet! I am NOT saying that I am proud of the abuse that I have given this book. Books should be cherished and taken care of, but this one was so enjoyable that it Demanded that I kept it as a constant companion and re-read chapter after chapter! Admittedly, this is probably the ONLY book that I have read 15+ times and kept as a constant companion for 60+ days straight. Well Done Brandon Sanderson!! Shame on you TOR – you should have used Shardplate bindings!

Not sure if I agree with you on this, as I took Jasna as a Driven woman since her fathers death. That has very much dominated her life for the last 6 years. But when she talks to Shallan about the arranged marriage to Adolin, she seemed like she was suprised that Shallan did not feel that marriage should "Limit" her life. That implies to me that Jasna considered her Chosen Task to be more important than marriage, not that marriage was in itself undesirable, and her apparent interest in the subject leads me to think that if the opportunity emerged, she might be interested.

We now have Stormfather. Maybe we can get something from him now.

Since Shallan and Pattern have been in Mraise's presence three times and he has not shown any indication of noticing Pattern in any of them, I do not think that Mraise has that ability. Same goes for Mask. Add to that the fact that all kinds of Spren pop up all the time in this world and no one pays much of any attention to them. Last of all, the only thing that we have seen that can hurt a Spren is to bond one and then break your oaths.

In WoK we saw Syl spying on Gaz and others a little bit for Kal. Syl did seem limited in range, but that may have changed now that Kal has progressed some more. In WoR we had Pattern spying a lot more even imitating voices voices perfectly, able to observe Syberial in the bath, looking for tails following Shallan and independently "scouting" the church while Shallan was drawing an prist to sneek in to see Talin. Seems to have greater range and independence than Syl. Now Delinar is bonded to Stormfather who travels the entire world and basically "sees" everybody. First off, why hasn't Shallan sent Pattern to follow/observe Mazise, Mask & the other Ghostbloods that she has seen at the Warcamps to gather more information about them, what they do, say, where they live/hide etc. They were trying to kill her after all, and supposedly did kill Jasna. Seems like it would be important to Shallan. Now Kal and Shallan have been at Uritiru for a week or so, how much have the Sprens done there? Shouldn't Kal and Shallan have set them to that task? I would think that the Sprens could "scan" the place more quickly than the regular people can. Especially, search out all the "Special" rooms of the place that should be "restricted" from just anybody accessing them. Especially, people like Sladeas, who is dead now, but could have been a threat. Certianly Mazise and Mask and everyone that has a Ghostblood Tattoo. But other groups as well. Now add in Glys and Stormfather. Glys is new to the KR relm so I doubt that he can go far. Does Renerin even have a Shardblade? Then add in Stormfather for whole world Intel. What do all of you think that the KRs should be doing with this ability?

Not to worry, a Guy by the name of Nin was by here a few minutes ago. Said something to the effect that he was going to "take care of it" or was it "take care of you?"

What I would like to know is if Renarin can See the future then why couldn't he See that they were going to survive? Instead of screaming "Were all going to die!", shouldn't he have been screaming "Were mostly all going to live!" or some such?

No that would not work out with Ym's Spren whispering to him "No" "Light" just before Darkness killed him. Ym's Spren was trying to get him to Lightweave to escape from Darkness. He was not telling him to use Friction. Ym was a Truthwatcher.

maxal, pretty much agree with you on this. All Renarin's behavior in WoR were very understandable - when we are looking back. They most all just fall together - and gives you an "OH! That's why he was acting odd!" type feeling. After all - he is way behind Kal and Shallan in his KR progression (my assumption & might be wrong). Look how long it took them to get it Mostly together. Even now they still have a ways to go. But that chapter would have been a nice place for him to start turning around and at least be a little help. I don't know how BS could have done it - without actually revealing that he was a proto-KR.

You are Spot On xianpoxi!! There is much more evidence in the books (Mostly WoK) of Kal having a thing for Plants than Adolin. After all he spent hours on end sneaking out to the Chasms at night to delicately stroke their stalks. Sly even nearly "lost" herself in an effort to "enable" his obvious fetish when she went away to get him the leaf. Definately, much more evidence there than having a "thing" for Adolin. Add to that the incident in the Chasms where Kal and Shallan are having a very pleasant conversation and then she brings up Adolin. And Kal is like "Well THAT just killed the Mood!"

--WoR, Chapter 45, emphases mine. I find it telling that Shallan's picture of the ideal life states that her mother loves her. She's never had that reaction with her father--she always indicates her father should be laughing, but it's her mother who ideally loves her. I think that suggests that Shallan's relationship with her mother probably wasn't good, even before her mother tried to kill her. I agree. We get a number on thought/statements that her father was "a loving person" before taking total blame her mother's death. But there is never any mention of her mother's love and Shallan specifically thinks that everything got significantly worse about the time when Dreder showed up. That was probably when her mother joined whichever group Dreder was with. It also implies that her mother never taught her anything. Maybe Dreder was with the corrupted Skybreakers? I think the other groups would have welcomed Shallan. Is there a Mod that can combine this tread with the What was it that Broke Shallan? tread - they are identical except for the name. Just two ways to say the same thing.

This was significantly discussed in the What was it that Broke Shallan? Thread The last comment it that her mother appeared to be more than a bit unstable even before she attacked Shallan with the knife, and was associated with one of the "groups" of the world. There had to be more than that one incident with her mother. A mother does not change overnight. She was probably abusive prior - but that is a guess as we have not seen that yet. You should read that thread.

Thanks, but the Lizard government comment made me do it. So I will give any up-votes earned should to you P4thf1nd3r. I am weak and could not resist. I just want to know what Szeth is going to do. - Kill the Shamanate for what they did to him. - Kill them for being wrong. - Turn them into Honorblade killers like they did to him & release them on the world. - Kill them so he/Nin can get the other Honorblades? - Turn into a Pawn to Psyco Nin like he was to his Oathstone, instead of killing as a puppet Assassan to his Oathstone. Will he now kill per Nin's warped Justice? - Or will he grow a backbone and be able to rebuke Nin? - How about Nightshade - can he conquer it and turn it for true good?

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Hope I'm not deverting the current topic too much, but I just can't understand how deliberately "blind" Szeth was. Mr T's bull about another Honorblade being stolen was hardly credable to begin with. I know that Szeth was Crazy at that point, but surely that did not make him blind as well. He had to Fly Over and Around and Everstorm and walk/fly around a blooming active battle with real Voidbringers. Sure, he might have gotten there after they had all been killed or run off. But the Everstorm with weird red lightening was right there!! As well as an Very Odd uncalled for Highstorm. And there had to be Voidbringer bodies all around where he met/fought Adolin. This is just way beyond Self Denial.

We have seen lots of stupid things done in the books and I think that this would be a nice place to keep track of them. What was he/she THINKING!!! That was stupid - type things. Mostly, I am not saying that they are bad, so far BS has done them in a way that makes them "Normal" mistakes that characters or people in general can and do make. Please feel free to bring them all up here. Mostly I am concerned about the Huge one that currently is in the making. PARISHMEN. OH Dear, they might turn into Voidbringers!!!! We will just abandon them and close our eyes, so maybe they will just go away!!!!! Does anyone else see anything wrong with this logic? They have Relan to tel them how the process works. I am not advocating the option of Mass Genocide - but that would certianally be better than abandoning them to become monsters & destroy the world!! It is very obvious (at least to me) that they SHOULD just abandon the parishmen so that they could accidentally get caught out in a Highstorm OR even worse get caught in an Everstorm! Is it realistic for the characters to make this mistake??? What should they do???? What do you think?

Love the thread, but I have no doubt that the first thing Kal will be doing, will be to rub himself with curry and go prancing through Heartstone singing Horneater lullabies. OK, now on to the serious projections: 1. Time is VERY, VERY Limited. Kholinar is in revolt and Delinar is specifically directing Kal to go there and sort out the mess if Kal can. Delinar is going to the King for a sphere requisition. It is only logical that the King give Kal some kind of “Writ of Command in the Name of the King” as well, because Kal obviously needs some kind of emergency authority all across Alethkar so that he can command any town/village that he passes to immediately start preparing, without having to spend ridiculous amounts of time at every stop on the way. 2. Kal needs to get & take a SpanReed as well so he can keep in communication with the other KRs. 3. He needs to do something with the Honorblade – a. Delinar is one option – since he will not be getting a living Shardblade. This may be the best option - especially if it will work the Oathgates. PROBLEM – Delinar needs to stay at Urithiru & consolidate the KR seat of power. Also, he might want to give it to someone else in the future & it might be hard for Delinar to give it up. b. Give it to someone else – who can go with him & that he can “Teach” during the trip, so that after they travel for 5 or so days, then they can go 2 different ways – covering more ground & saving more people. If he gives it to someone else – who? i. Dear old Dad – He can 100% trust his Dad (I think), so (other than Delinar) this is the safest. It would be awesome having another Flying Surgeon, zipping around. But it would delay the start of the Bonding process & I doubt that his Dad would be willing to use the blade as a weapon, so it would be a partial waste ii. Rock – Pro…Has been training with Kal so already knows a (very) little about Windrunners skills), May be already Bonded as a Squire to Kal. -Con… like Dad - he will not fight, what happened to Moash (giving powerful stuff to someone & having them turn against him. iii. Teft - Pro…Has been training with Kal so already knows a (very) little about Windrunners skills), May be already Bonded as a Squire to Kal, has longer knowledge of KRs than most. - Con… what happened to Moash (giving powerful stuff to someone & having them turn against him. iv. Sigzil - Pro…Has been training with Kal so already knows a (very) little about Windrunners skills), May be already Bonded as a Squire to Kal, Is familiar with many people and places. - Con… what happened to Moash (giving powerful stuff to someone & having them turn against him. v. Lopen - Pro…Has been training with Kal so already knows a (very) little about Windrunners skills), IS Definitely already Bonded as a Squire to Kal, or a Proto KR. Has already started actively breathing and using Stormlight. Has proven himself a little more than the other Bridgemen by taking over the protection of the King successfully in an emergency. Has MANY cousins. If he is a Proto KR, the Honorblade will not turn on him/block him from advancing (may actually accelerate his KR advancement). Showed specific interest in BEING a Windrunner so is less likely to have problems with flying/falling. Has been paying especially good attention to what Kal does so he (I think) is the most Windrunner knowledgeable. - Con… what happened to Moash (giving powerful stuff to someone & having them turn against him. This is less likely to be an issue with Lopen because we know that he is either a proto KR (& will soon have his own blade & surges) or he is Kal’s Squire – giving Kal (a little) more control of him. (It still would be very difficult to get it back, even if he tells them in the beginning "this is only a loan" it would be hard for Lopen to give it up, unless he gets his own Shardblade as a KR) c. Someone I have not thought of. d. Hide it & chance that someone else might find/access it & it could be lost to him. Bad side is that it would be a wasted resource at a very dire time, when every resource should be utilized to the max. So, at this point – I think that the Lopen option has the most potential. What do you think? Edited because all the spacing was lost/messed up

Absolutely!!! 100% correct. Unless we see a huge change in her in the next book it will never happen on purpose. She is FAR from perfect - all the characters are far from perfect. I can't believe the gigantic number of stupid things that all the characters (good and bad) do. But the way BS wrote them, they were perfectly understandable. (DON'T DO THAT YOU FOOL!!! STUPID!!!) But it was just GREAT!! I hate it when characters don't screw up in realistic ways. I also think that it would be much harder for Shallan to kill Pattern - by accident - than for Kal to kill Syl. It is the nature of the Spren. I also am sure that something else way going on for all the KRs to kill the Spren at the same time. That many people going bad at the same time had an external cause.

I disagree. Kal, Shallan and Delinar all did significant "healing" before they figured out what was going on. I really doubt that Renarin was at the point that he was conciously healing or could conciously "interpret" his visions. At the dual point he clearly was not focusing on the benefits, but mostly on his " Voidbringer Curse". Even from the Delinar POV at the very end, he just then accepts it. It might be a day or so before that, but not much earlier.

By the same token, there is no need to inject such things into the story that add nothing to it and that there is no textual evidence to support it. Quite the contrary, we have a multitude of Kal POVs. Most with assorted men, but also a few with females. The only ones that showed any "interest" were with Shallan. A few of those POVs, near the end of WoR, showed a noticable amount of positive interest on Kal part. I doubt that he will persue the relationship right away, as he seems to be developing a friendship with Adolin & Shallan seems intent on trying to make that work as well. Besides, they are all somewhat preoccupied now as well. If someone comes up more Adolin compatable, I think that Adolin might have to break it off with Shallan. (New experience as the females always broke it off before (I think)). Or Adolin may be caught up with not only having to play the lesser partner to Shallan (we saw some of this before he killed Sadeas), and that was before his own brother and dad became KRs. So he may have a significant amount of time "adjusting" to being the lesser figure to many people. A new area for him, we will have to see what all that does to him. If Renerin "sees" the truth, Adolin might have to spend some time being "protected" by his little brother. BS has lots of room to make Adolin situation very interesting in the next book.

@Aether Adolin seems to be very much physically attracted to Shallan, and she finds her to be of a refreshingly different temperament than the girls/women he is used to. But I doubt he has developed any deep seated feelings for her at this point. He seems to be more in awe of her at this point than anything else.I'm not sure how accurate this is - he still looks at every skirt that passes. He seems more attracted to the idea of having a permanent relationship, where he does not have to figure out what he is doing wrong, than specifically Shallan. Then at the end - just before he kills Sadeas - he is specifically thinking about how he actually feels about being the "lesser partner" in the relationship. I am sure that inner turmoil is part of why he went off the deep end there. Extremely small part as Sadeas certainly gave him the majority of the provocation. I agree, and there were other instances as well. Also, it should be noted that Kaladin is clearly thinking thinking a lot about her. That said, they all three are hardly at the point that they appear to be "locked" into a certain path. The next book will probably add another person in the mix, but I doubt that it will be Jasna. She - hopefully will be there but I do not consider her to be a part of this triangle. She will clearly go after Guz. ;/

You are quite right about the possibility of more than one of each type. Just as there is a possability that there is only one. As far as distance, we can't be sure of the time frame between the two events, or how fast that type of Spren can travel. Personally, I hope you are right, but not completely sure as yet. @Moogle Renarin also says his spren, Glys, is a "he", while Ym's was most certainly a "she". There's basically no way they had the same spren, unless anyone is proposing a spren-gender-is-fluid theory. Ym mostly referred to his Spren as an it. He DID though think that it sounded like a young woman. But men and women have a wide range of voice patterns and quite a few overlap, so I don't thing that is conclusive. @both Most likely you are correct. I am just putting out the possibility as they were both apparently Truthwatchers.

I think that the Honorblade would work - but that is only a guess, as we have nothing real to go on yet. On the "locking" the Oathgates, that could have been accomplished by the assorted cities building on the platform, structures that are too big to transport, unless you have astronomical ammounts of Stormlight. Kholinar has the palace ++ built on the platform. It would take a Lot to move that - I'm sure.

All is withdrawn for me. I stand against the one who saved my life. I protect the one who killed my promises. I raise my hand. The storm responds. Could you explain that one to me. It does not seem to work either way I look at it for that event. Probably just me being dim.