xbauks

That's another thing.

There seems to be a lot misunderstanding concerning Adolin's actions near the end of the book.

Sadeas was a scumbag. He had murdered thousands of Adolin's colleagues and friends with his betrayal at the end of book 1. He tried to murder Kaladin, and had succeeded with the murder of many others, through his callous use of bridges. He is working to destabilize the only force that can stop the storm that is coming.

He deserved to die.

I know there are many other Radiants that would do the same.

Yes he deserved to die. There is no misunderstanding about that. The disagreement comes from the way the murder was committed. And that's really just about opinion.

They may know about Tien's death, but losing a child is a huge emotional loss. Fingers start getting pointed, and blame becomes a very large issue. Parents who have lost children are often bitter and depressed for years after the loss. It's a heartbreaking thing, as awful as losing a parent. This, combined with the fact that Kaladin told them he wasn't coming home and continuing his military career probably hurt Lirin in more ways than one. At first, Kaladin just signed up so that Tien would be safe and not alone. Lirin probably wished with all his heart that Kaladin would come home after this, but he chose to stay with the army. Not only has Lirin lost Tien, he's also lost Kal, in a way. His son will no longer be the surgeon that Lirin wanted him to be so much. Fighting with Roshone over keeping the spheres no longer has a purpose. The struggle to ensure that Kaladin would go to Kharbranth was all for nothing. That sort of thing leaves a man very bitter and angry, even.

Now, will Lirin hate Kaladin? I don't think so. He's still his father, and he loved both his children. But he could be resentful of Kaladin.

The resentment may come later. But the initial reaction will be happiness. Seeing their son again who they assumed was dead/they would never get to see.

I hope the spren is one of orders that Adolin can keep the oaths.

This is an interesting possibility. Do you think this will be a recurring thing that a mc will hold a shard? I am not sure. Though could be...

*sits on fence*

I can see Dalinar reforging Honour and someone else picking it up.

It'll be interesting to see how Laral reacts to Kaladin's homecoming. I'm guessing that getting married to a angry and vindictive old geezer is not the best way to go. I actually feel rather sorry for her; she's under the pressure to conform to lighteyed standards, and that means leaving Kaladin. And getting married at the tender age of sixteen. I'm guessing she'll be neutral or happy to see Kaladin.

As for Kaladin's parents, I'm expecting anger from Lirin and love from Hesina. Both of them would be crushed to hear of Tien's death, but I think Lirin would be more bitter about it than Hesina. Kal was Lirin's only assistant and his great pride and joy. Learning that Kaladin is going to become a soldier - the very antithesis of what he wanted for Kaladin - probably broke his heart. Hesina, however, made sure that she let Kaladin know that she supported him in whatever he chose.

Either way, it will be a very emotional time.

I think they'll be happy to see him. They haven't seen kaladin in so long. Also they already know about Tien. Kaladin informed them and then got hard core into training.

All that tells us is that when Vasher runs out of breath Nightblood will kill him, which to me seems likely to be through draining his divine breath which is what's keeping him alive. Maybe I'm wrong but I always read the people killing themselves as being because Nightblood saw them as evil not because they ran out of breath.

When Nightblood is unsheathed, he absorbs investiture. That includes the very spark of life within a person. So he would kill a person if they ran out of Stormlight.

I might be failing really hard but I can't seem to find info about this Mistborn epigraph. Could someone perhaps link me to what this is all about please ;(.

First chapter Epigraph in Hero of Ages:

 

I am, unfortunately, the Hero of Ages.

Later on in the book (Chapter 31) Sazed says:

 

I am, unfortunately, in charge

Really?  Where is that shown?  I totally missed it. 

Sorry I meant Gavilar not Dalinar. Mr. T says that Gavilar confided in him about his visions. And while fighting Szeth, he wonders who couldve sent the assassin. One of the names he comes up with is Restares. He is also mentioned by Dalinar as someone very important in Alethi politics. 

I really doubt Renarin is the traitor. Every shard we have seen so far in the cosmere has some form of precognition. So attributing all forms of precognition to Odium. Brandon has also said that humans bonding to void spren is very difficult.

I have been reading some of the spoilers, and A huge question I have after reading Words of Radiance is if Nightblood can use stormlight. one of the WoB states the following:Q: How long as Zahel been slumming it on Roshar?A: For quite a long time, on this planet he can get something quite easily that is much harder to get where he came from.So is breath the same thing as stormlight? If that is the case, then Nightblood will be able to feed off of infused spheres...My other thought is that it might use a specific type of spren which would be more like breath.Please discuss!

Brandon has said that Light and Breath are fairly similar forms of investiture. It's also heavily implied that Vasher can consume some amount of Light instead of Breath to live. The same is implied for Nightblood. Although Brandon has said mixing magic systems does funky things. I'm curious as to whether this counts as mixing magic.

I like this! Upvote!

I do have some questions.

Do we really know that Restares was in Alethkar with Amaram? I think Restares might have been communicating w/Amaram via spanreed.

Could Restares be Mr. T? They both seem to use stormwardens. Mr. T doesn't want his real identity known. As pointed out above, Pai's actions coinciding with Szeth's second attempt on Dalinar and Graves attempt on Elhokar stinks to high Braise.

Dalinar knows both Mr T and Restares personally. So it is extremely unlikely that they are the same person unless Restares was killed and replaced to take control of the SoH.

I assume that Parshmen will be turned to Voidbringers by the Everstorm (Stormfather says so also).

I further assume that Parshendi have a choice (Rlain and escapees).

I assume that Parshmen can take on other Parshendi forms: dullform, mateform, warrior, ...

Kaladin is going back to Hearthstone.

Should Kaladin take Rlain somewhere to start converting Parshmen to Parshendi.

Obviously, anybody who doubts that their slaves will become Voidbringers will not want them to become Parshendi.

Politics and slave ownership aside, the humans are better off with allied or neutral Parshendi than Voidbringers, so they should be converting all the Parshmen they can to Parshendi.

I assume that Parshendi would need to be emancipated, but that is a separate issue.

I can't see anybody agreeing to free or change their slaves until they see the danger, but by then it will be too late.

Should Kaladin and Rlain just do it to people's slaves because it's the right thing?

Does this make sense or have I lost it?

It hasn't been explicitly stated what will happen to the parshendi/parshmen with the everstorm. I got the feeling that the void spren would forcefully convert anyone that was outside during an everstorm.

What if T's capacity to save the world is when he's in the middle ground - decently smart, without sociopathy, compassionate, but not to the point of being unable to make hard choices. Before he went to Nightwatcher Mr. T was one of the rare monarchs in the world, who cared about the people and managed their realms capably. And Gavilar trusted him with the big secret - something he didn't tell his children and closest allies. He was far from powerless - and Way of Kings showed a man can raise from depths of despair to achieve greatness, if he doesn't succumb to despair. Perhaps if T trusted his own abilities - as he in his Interlude - don't underestimate average intelligence.

If T had the capacity to save the world from the start then Nightwatchers's boon was much like Wizard of Oz giving brains/heart/courage. And then she added the curse of intelligence-compassion inversion, which T mistaken for the boon.

But then there would be no boon.

I agree with name_here. Mr T was given the capacity. Whether he was actually able to follow through with it and do what needed to be done is to be seen.

Because all my WoR theories have proved catastrophically wrong, I thought I’d try another: the cause of the Recreance was the KR’s destruction of Stormseal. Evidence:

• The Listener’s Song of War, 55^th Stanza states :

"They blame our people

For the loss of that land.

The city that once covered it

Did range the eastern strand.

The power made known in the tomes of our clan

Our gods were not who shattered these plains."

This seems to refer to Stormseal. If not the Listeners, then “who shattered these plains”? I posit that it was the KR.

2. WoB (somewhere) is that a “great magic” shattered the plains.

3. Chapter 38, page 6 of the Words of Radiance (epigraph to WoR Chapter 38) states

“Now, as the Windrunners were thus engaged, arose the event which has hitherto been referenced: namely, that discovery of some wicked thing of eminence, though whether it be some rogueries among the Radiants’ adherents or of some external origin, Avena would not suggest.”

4. Chapter 38, page 6 of the Words of Radiance (epigraph to WoR Chapter 40, which appears to follow the preceding paragraph consecutively or close to) states

"That they responded immediately and with great consternation is undeniable, as these were primary among those who would forswear and abandon their oaths. The term Recreance was not then applied, but has since become a popular title by which this event is named."

5. Chapter 38, page 20 states

"This act of great villainy went beyond the impudence which had hitherto been ascribed to the orders; as the fighting was particularly intense at the time, many attributed this act to a sense of inherent betrayal; and after they withdrew, about two thousand made assault upon them, destroying much of the membership; but this was only nine of the ten, as one said they would not abandon their arms and flee, but instead entertained great subterfuge at the expense of the other nine."

6. Perhaps most tellingly, we discover that the only operational Oathgate is in Stormseal. The host cities of every other Oathgate had sealed their Oathgates, as if to prevent the KR from coming into their city.

I suggest that in the absence of further Desolations, some of the KR became involved in political disputes, helping the armies of some of the Silver Kingdoms against others: “the fighting was particularly intense at the time…”

Whatever the “wicked thing of eminence” was, it clearly breached the Windrunners’ sense of honor, since they were the first (“primary”) to abandon their oaths. Even participating in mundane wars probably was considered dishonorable by the Windrunners, but it’s doubtful that alone would have precipitated a mass forswearing of oaths.

Thus, the breach of honor had to be “wicked” and “eminent.” Shattering the plains (and Stormseal) would certainly qualify. I vote that the Skybreakers, on their own or enlisted in a competing army’s cause, used their gravitational and division surges to fly over the plains and irrevocably break them. I also believe they were the one order that kept their arms and hid “at the expense of the other nine.”

Finally, I further believe that the Skybreakers were the "One [KR order who] is almost certainly a traitor to the others" (epigraph to WoR chapter 86, from the Diagram). The others, nonetheless, took the fall for the Skybreaker’s evil.

The Skybreakers shattering Natanatan seems like a possible theory. They may even be the traitors. But the order in hiding described in very specific words. Subterfuge is a word that does not describe the Skybreakers. Windrunners, Stonewards and Skybreakers are the least capable of subterfuge. Unless of course their spren or Nahel bond was corrupted. We have no evidence of it though.

Hello. Would you like to destroy some evil?

I don't know if this has been talked about somewhere else. I searched, and couldn't find anything.

So, I was rereading the Lhan interlude and realized something:

So yes, Kholinar Palace and the Vorin temple are built right on top of the Kholinar Oathgate.

Nice catch! I was wondering where the Kholinar Oathgate was located.

Yeah, but this doesn't answer the most obvious question: what order of Radiants will the girl he's seeing be?

She's obviously gotta be a stoneward. No one else can stand his ugly mug for very long.

This is also one of at least 2 references to humanity's escape/expulsion to Roshar. No one in world seems to get it though.

Wildest theory of them all! Teft is seeing someone and is too shy to tell everyone else!

Also, if the Nightwatcher is a part of Cultivation, presumably, she wouldn't want the world to be destroyed.

True but I doubt Cultivation is as focused on doing the Honourable thing. If it saves the human race, whether it's despicable or not, I doubt she cares all that much.

Dyring and name_here:

The Nightwatcher is said to be fairly straight forward. One boon and one curse. She doesn't twist words. If Mr T asked for the capacity to save the world, that's what he got. Whether it's the Diagram or his Compassion, is up for debate.

I have to wonder whether there were highstorms originally. There are several mentions of ancient animals that feel too Earth-like - which suggests that at some point the people of Roshar knew of those animals. So they either existed on Roshar long ago (which would imply that the highstorms haven't always been around, otherwise those animals would've be able to evolve), or the denizens of the planet were originally from another Shardworld - where those animals existed, and were brought to Roshar in the collective memory of the people. Either scenario is fascinating.

Humans are most probably not native to Roshar. Their physiology is very different and they even have myths that say that they were kicked off their planet and sent/escaped to Roshar.

You are right. I was falling asleep while writing this. There could be other explanations for the parshendi. They could have evolved naturally. I'm disinclined to believe that based on what we have seen of the rest of the cosmere. We have yet to see a naturally evolved sentient species. Even if the parshendi did naturally evolve on Roshar, I'd argue Adonalsium had something to do with their sentience. Perhaps they first bonded to Adonalsium spren to gain sentience.

*I'm all for naturally evolving sentient species, and Brandon is known to throw all kinds of opposing beliefs into his books, so it's a possibility. We just haven't got any evidence to support it is possible in the cosmere.

Just FYI, Shallan does know that Kaladin gave the death blow to her brother. She was there when Kaladin made his accusation against Amaram in front of god and everyone else, She then asked him in the chasm if he was telling the truth, and he told her yes. Circumstances being what they were, along with her pov parts after that, I do not think she blames Kaladin for what happened, only Amaram who her brother was apparently trying to kill.

Kaladin doesn't mention that. He says that Amaram murdered his friends and stole from him. He never mentioned the shards. Shallan has no reason to even suspect it.

If Reya turns out to be Dalinar's wife's name, I will be very annoyed at Peter.

Unlikely. We have yet to see an exact name given to 2 different people. Vorin tradition seems to be to base the name of a person on something but the name itself will be different. I don't see Dalinar's wife being named the same thing as a star.

Just because I like playing devil's advocate...

You could read this as saying,

Which might suggest that the spren Bondsmiths bonded to were set apart from ordinary spren. Unique spren (like Cusichesh, for example), or maybe specific unique spren. Spren with some connection to the gods, perhaps? The Stormfather, the Nightwatcher, and others, whom we haven't necessarily seen yet. Shardspren, if you will. I say this because of the other epigraph that mentions Bondsmiths:

Now, granted, we don't know what the Bondsmiths' Surges do, exactly, but I find it unlikely that Adhesion and Tension have much to do with the Heralds or Odium or any of it. They don't strike me as especially divine Surges. So maybe Melishi is thinking of the Bondsmiths' connection to Honor himself. (And/or Cultivation. And/or Odium. And/or various combinations thereof.) If the Bondsmiths' spren held more of their respective Shard's power/consciousness than typical spren, it might give the Bondsmiths a way to manipulate the Oathpact. Perhaps making it stronger somehow? Hastening the end of the current Desolation and delaying the next?

Actually, for that matter, maybe Surgebinding alone is enough to explain it. Adhesion and tension are both static. One pushing, the other pulling, but basically holding everything together. Physical bonds, but also things like the Oathpacts. If Progression (typically plants and healing, but also, more loosely speaking, change over time) and Illumination (light and sound) can combine to give Truthseers visions of how things are going to change over time, maybe Adhesion and Tension combine to give Bondsmiths power over things like the Oathpact.

So new theory: The Bondsmiths literally Surgebound the Oathpact into oblivion. Yay, team!

(And now I'm thinking of Taravangian's prediction that "one is almost certainly a traitor to the others." If Bondsmiths bind "Shardspren," they could bind Odium's spren. Maybe Odium used a Bondsmith to breath the Oathpact 4500 years ago, and then set himself up as the "Stormfather" to manipulate Dalinar into finishing the job.)

I can see some of what you're trying to say. If spren of the same type were referred to as a singular then that epigraph would make sense. In the same way you would say "their family was understood to be..." And I can see that happening. Spren don't seem as individualistic as humans. Perhaps all Honourspren are similar to Syl in personality.

Your theory: from the letter written to Hoid, the author makes it seem like Odium has been contained in Greater Roshar for the past 4 millennia. That would imply either constant meddling by Odium (Stormfather responsibilities) or that he has been stuck. It makes more sense if the Bondsmith somehow made the Oathpact more binding, forcing Odium to be unable to leave.