Ailessar

I love the minifigures, they're perfect, you've even got Renarin and his spectacles. Seriously, that's exactly how I imagined Kaladin.  I'd give you an upvote for each minifigure if I could.  And the chasmfiend is wonderful!

Next step --  Stormlight Archives: the Lego Movie.  

Every illustration in a Stormlight book represents a real-world document. And the funny thing about documents, especially documents in a society that's semi-literate, is that they're not always accurate to the finest detail. Sometimes people mess things up or make mistakes, and we take advantage of that in the pieces we do for the book.

Isaac's page is based on similar documents published by fighting schools in Europe a few hundred years ago, sometimes called "fechtbuchs" (fight books). They're often a little interpretive, meant to serve as a study aid rather than as an honest representation of movement. Shallan's pages are (unfortunately for me) seen as more accurate because of the nature of her powers, but she's not infallible and she's not always drawing a "Memory", sometimes she's just working in the ways of a natural illustrator. Lastly, she draws as an observer of a subject rather than an expert IN the subject, so sometimes she misses out on a detail because she doesn't recognize it's importance.

I know a lot of that boils down to basically weaseling loopholes. Part of playing with Brandon's toys is that I have to be careful about what I say regarding behind-the-scenes bits. I expect to speak with Brandon fairly soon, and I'll see what he wants me to say about the stances then. In the meantime, you guys are doing pretty good with the deductive reasoning so far.

Thanks so much, Inkthinker! I'll add my gushing to snote's and just say how awesome an artist you are.  Your work has hugely sparked many an imagination here.  (And I love that you added a glimpse of Adolin in the sketch.  I would give you a hundred upvotes just for that.)

So basically, I'm getting that the sketch is very much from a layperson's viewpoint.  A lot like mine, as from someone who admires the sport of swordfighting because it can be beautiful as well as thrilling to watch.  

Thanks again!! 

Welcome to the forum, snote! It's fun to speculate, and this is the right forum to do it!  I'm not a swordsman, so I can't explain the "logic" of the fighting as described in the book  (which is why I wanted to visualize these stances).  Also, if you find a discrepancy, you can go to the Typos thread pinned above and ask Peter.  There might well be more that have escaped editing, in a book this large.  But I'm glad name_here was able to explain the discrepancy you mentioned.

Hope you have fun joining in the craziness or forming your own theories! :-) 

So Inkthinker is Ben??  Wow, I had no idea! lol

I did email Ben on his website.  And I'll PM Inkthinker here.  Hopefully all my begging will wear him down. :-)

I've been following this thread and enjoying everyone's speculations.  I keep coming back and hoping you've all unlocked the secrets of the maps.

but two spiral galaxies colliding with each other? 

I may have missed this suggestion further back, but maybe a black hole? Like this image.

Although the signing last night was great, I got to meet other fans, and got my two books and Bridge Four patch signed,  I was disappointed, though, that Brandon told me that I would have to email Ben McSweeney with my printout because he said the artist made the final determinations as to what the stances looked like based on Brandon’s descriptions.  Brandon said that he could get them wrong too easily. 

Anyways I’ll email Ben.  Sorry guys but it looks like we’ll have to keep speculating.  So this really all comes down to the context in the books rather than real-world skills, as Inkthinker said.  It might be a long time before I get any feedback, if at all.  

@AwesomenessSummoned, those are  -- well, awesome! Upvote! I think your proposed names sound cool.  Although the first one might be a toss between Windstance and Ironstance.  For the last one, instead of “Victory/Success”, I thought that “For the Kill” or just “Kill” sounded apt.  What term do fencers use when they score a hit?

PS.  This is an odd coincidence, but when I go to Ben's website, it's called Inkthiner.net. 

Final votes:

I’m thinking name_here’s argument for Ironstance and Windstance makes sense too (that’s what I thought at the beginning), so I’ll be on the fence and put both of them for each one. I know, I know, I’m cheating.    But for the sake of our little contest the first choice is what should count.  After all, I don’t want to get cookies via nefarious means.

I’ve decided I’m going to do my best to go to the signing on Friday.  I can leave early right after work and go straight there.  It’s only an hour away, and I've been there before, so I should get there in plenty of time to snag my place in line.  Barring the unforeseen, I’ll ask Brandon myself, since it seems Inkthinker has abandoned us.  Or maybe Peter can end our uncertainty.  Regardless I’ll bring the printout as well as a few questions.  Meanwhile I’m busy working on my Mistborn cloak.  I’m taking an old cloak and cutting it up into strips.  I really want that Szeth figure! 

Edited: added final votes table

@rhandric, if you mean you have to buy a ticket to get in, then no, I believe it is free to come and sit in on the Q & A.  But as NutiketAiel notes, it's a good idea to RSVP, just so they know how many seats to set up and how much space to give the signing.  I think there will be a lot of people there.

This is what the bookstore says about the book signing itself:

Event books will be available on site for purchase and autographs.  To help cover event costs, there will be a $5 autograph fee for books not purchased here.  This fee is waived for all books if you purchase the event title, Words of Radiance, from us.

I called them up and the lady told me that I can have up to three books signed, whether I pay the $5 fee or buy one book from them.

I checked the glyphs in the scroll that you indicated by blowing up the image and I didn’t see any of them that are identical to the illumination/light surge or the abrasion surge glyphs.  Or maybe I’m not looking at them properly.  At this point, I’ve had so much to do lately that it doesn’t take much to fool my eyes.

@Wez,  I’m not familiar with WOT, sadly I couldn’t finish the series even knowing Brandon was going to be at the end.  I love the fighting in WoK and WoR, somehow the idea of knights in magical armor and with magical swords fighting like samurai gives me goosebumps.

@abdf, good catch on that “sigh” in the sketch! Upvote! I wasn’t thinking that it might be Adolin, but that just makes so much sense.  So we get a glimpse of Adolin’s face finally *sigh*.  And I do agree with you now that #4 must be Windstance since it’s his favorite stance. 

Okay, because I was really confused, I had to make this table to get a clear idea of what you guys are voting for:

Is this correct?  I’m not sure about everyone else. So far the only ones we have solid agreement seems to be Flamestance, Smokesance, and Stonestance. (I’m wondering now if I should make a poll for other people to vote on.)    I’m not even tackling the scroll not being the same as 4 or 2.  My mind is, as expected, spinning right now.

So the one who gets the most right, everybody else will be sending him/her cookies!

Where’s Inkthinker?  We need him to tell us which stance is which. Or I really need to go to the signing and ask Brandon myself.

It could be a form of Lightstance, possibly?  Arcanist explained that the scroll depics a sparring match, and the stance we've been debating on is the first form on the top left.  (I think it is Ironstance but there's been good points presented for it to be Windstance by PorridgeBrick and abdf.)  We have no idea what the glyphs say.  I probably should link that thread now.  Do you have a link for the glyph for the illumination/surge on the KR chart endpaper?  Thanks!

Edited: added links to KR chart endpaper and to the glyph translation thread to the first post, as well as removed my votes for Ironstance and Windstance (I think abdf and PorridgeBrick may be right, and the post does look cleaner for it).  Also added the pdf link that Arcanist provided.

Upvote on Two Steps From H---, eveorjoy!  For me, pretty much anything Two Steps From H--- or Brand X Music apply.  My Epic Music playlist is full of them.

(edited: hehe, the censor kept turning H--- into 'calamity')

Hi Mailliw!  Welcome to the thread, also name_here and Inkthinker!  Mailliw, I did like your ideas and agree with most of it, but it seems Inkthinker might have put a twist in that.

Inkthinker, yes please tell us!  At least the ones that are mentioned in the book??  This is a good thing because I might not be able to make it to the signing this Friday.  I was going to go in costume too. This week I’m starting a new job in addition to the freelance I’m doing.  So—spill!  Hehe

Unless everyone wants to keep speculating?  What do you all think? 

But even if I do get to go, I might still ask him for curiosity’s sake, unless you can PM me with the details?  I feel a little nervous about asking authors for answers. I promise not to tell.  Did he also happen to tell you what his influences were, whether Kendo, German/Italian longsword fencing, Kuk Sool Won, some other and/or a combination of all these?

@TheArcanist, thank you for the pdf, I scanned through it but have not had the time to properly read.  

@abdf, good, well-thought out points all, that’s why I’m reconsidering my votes. I’m rethinking my ideas on Ironstance and Windstance as I ponder.

At least we can speculate on the remaining stances by process of elimination!  I like Lightstance too for Lucentia.  Oilstance or Tallowstance? I like Sinewstance. Bloodstance sounds properly grisly.  As well as PorridgeBrick’s image of Butcherstance, or possibly Cleaverstance?  This could be #1, an overhead chopping motion. And I agree that #10 seems to go well with that image of a Shardbearer plowing through, say, a rank of Parshendi.  

I’ll have to link up that glyph-translating thread once they break the code, thanks Mailliw!

Kaladin as KR and his 'squires' sitting around the fire eating stew.  I want to think that nothing has changed as far as their relationships, that they're still his bridgemen and he's their commander.  It was a comforting constant in WoR, and I would like to cling to that through the undoubtedly many changes coming up ahead.

Great catch, PorridgeBrick!  You rock!  So Alethi martial arts could  be partially based on Kuk Sool Won!

As for stances being based off Radiant Orders: possibly, but not necessarily. Note how Smokestance requires two weapons. Unless spren can manifest in two points at once, a Radiant can only have one blade. And Smokestance is meant for inferior weapons, when any Radiant should have the best possible weapon, a Shardblade.

Good point.

Have you found any other similar stances?   I found these.

Similar to Smokestance, with it’s sword-and-knife form:

 http://www.northwestkuksoolwon.com/DuelingSwords.gif

I spy Vinestance and Stonestance here (second and fourth from left):  

http://kuksoolny.com/images/5blackbelts-weapons-park.jpg

Stonestance in this defensive posture (ground swordsman, left).  Hehe, his purpose seems to be to serve as a (stone) ladder for his partner as well as defense:

http://www.kuksoolwonuiuc.com/images/kuksanim/swd4.JPG

And the ground swordsman seems to be moving from the Vinestance?  Which goes with what Rust and Ruin and Arcanist has said:

http://kuksoolwonofpacifica.com/images/grandMasterSword1.jpg

I couldn’t help noting these for # 1 (I won’t call it Windstance, since I could be wrong).  Notice how much time the guy spends in the air with this stance?

http://www.stpaulksw.com/blog/wp-content/images/weapons/kwan-jang-nim-fan-techniques.jpg

http://kswgarland.com/wp-content/gallery/action/kuksanimsword-pic.jpg?9d7bd4

http://www.kuksoolwonuiuc.com/images/kuksanim/swd1.JPG

http://kuksoolwonofpacifica.com/images/grandMasterSword1.jpg

http://www.stpaulksw.com/images/whatIsKukSool/weapons.jpg

And Kuk Sool Won seems to cover a wide range of weapons, including sword, knives, short staffs, longstaffs, spears and bows!  Kaladin may well be doing Kuk Sool Won spear forms.

http://www.stpaulksw.com/blog/31/kuk-sool-won-weapons-complete-with-pictures/

Although you guys are probably right in that Brandon has used many different influences, including Kendo, German and Italian longsword schools, and now, Kuk Sool Won. 

I’m going to ask Brandon about Kuk Sool Won, though.  It’s so very likely he has seen it in Korea, right?  How long did he stay there? 

Thanks Arcanist for that visual description of the scroll! It’s supposed to be really quick, isn’t it? I mean, the opponent is dead in three moves. I love it when fight scenes come alive in my mind. And I think I’ve seen those moves somewhere on YouTube, I’ve been looking for it but it was too long ago to be in my history any more.

I’ll update the first post by adding these possible martial arts influences.  The first post is getting really long, so I’ll probably change it by linking to quotes and other images rather than displaying them there.  

I just finished re-reading Lift's interlude and I noticed this

I have a question about this quote

"Here in Azir, working for the government was real important. Everyone else was said to be “discrete,” whatever that meant." - WoR p. 684

Is it really meant to be "discrete,"  or maybe it's "discreet"?  I've been puzzling over the context and I think it could go either way.  

adbf and PorridgeBrick, I’ll put your votes down for Windstance and Ironstance, thanks!  You’ve brought up very good points, especially about the orientation of the blade edge and the transition from Windstance to Ironstance, and that quote does support it.

while #4 has the sharp edge backward while on the scroll it's forward. 

adbf, do you mean these two stances?  So the blade on the left is facing the right, not left?

The reason I think # 1  seems to be good match for Windstance is in the description itself. "Adolin used Windstance, turned sideways slightly, hands before him and elbows bent, Shardblade pointing back over his head."   I may be wrong, but it’s the only one that has the hands before him, and not to the side of the head, and where the Shardblade is pointing back over his head.  (For that reason, I’m removing # 9 from Windstance, since the hands are beside his head, as in Ironstance).  The elbows don’t seem tremendously bent at that angle but I think if there were a front-view that it would more clearly show the elbows bent.  However, I do agree that it is facing more forward than “sideways slightly.” Hmm…

Also, if we are going to assume that these stances take on some characteristic of their Essences and Orders, however slight, I think that the blade being up so high in # 1 , in fact the highest of any of the depicted stances, might indicate that this stance is meant for those sweeping, majestic cuts where you have the most space above and around you, as a Windrunner, for example, might have that space fighting when he is aloft.  So my vote stays for # 1 for Windstance.

~~~

Thanks for the info, Arcanist!  Woot, another martial arts expert in the house!  So you think we’ve matched the stances to the images so far, then?  Or do you have other opinions as to which is what?  I’ll include your comments for each stance above because I think they are very informative.

~~~

To make things more complicated, now I am wondering if those images in Shallan’s sketch do not actually depict each of the ten stances, but are perhaps forms of the stances that are known so far?  Could each stance have more than one form, perhaps?  What do the martial arts experts think?

And what about the stances of the right-hand opponent here?

It’s a lot of fun trying to figure what is what, but I’m seriously thinking of asking Brandon when I go to have my book signed next week in Philly if he could match these images to the stances.  I’ll bring a printout.  If anyone else is going to the signings before the Philly one (March 21) and would be inclined to ask Brandon for confirmation, please do!  If you like, I can email you a printout with the images in a list format so Brandon can make note of the stance more easily.

Thanks again everyone!

I am a stick. 

What is ‘am’?  Do you know the meaning of the word?  ‘Am’ is but an expression of your universal self in its eternal cycle of existence.   So even though you ‘am’ a stick now, it’s really the same thing as you ‘am’  fire.  Say the words ‘I am fire.’ You’ll see it’s true.

I am a stick.

Stick, do you know how many sticks long to be fire?  To burn brightly and be a light to the world?  You’re crazy to pass this chance up to light up the world.

I am a stick. 

Did you not know that fire is the highest ambition of all sticks?  That it’s, like, the first dahn of sticks?  

I am a stick.

Listen, stick.  Let’s play a game.  If you be fire, I’ll be warm and toasty. 

I am a stick.

Hey, stick, fires are babe magnets.  They get to meet all the cute chick sticks. 

I am fire!

 

Another theory... what are the chances that acting towards dead spren as if they were alive, and ... believing in them ... would be the thing to actually making them alive?

I've been sort of hoping that for Adolin, despite the turn he has taken.  I'd like to think that Adolin talking to his blade is foreshadowing that.

Will this thread be pinned?  It's so helpful!

. I wonder if that's where Brandon got his inspiration from. 

I'm wondering that too.  Does anyone know if Brandon is a martial arts fan?  Does he have an inner samurai fighting to get out?  Or maybe he had a martial arts expert to consult in creating his own martial arts system?  These might be interesting questions to ask him when I go to the signing in Philly.  

If you've rescinded your vote, PorridgeBrick, I'll crown Smokestance as being definitiely identified.

So happy for Brandon!  Congratulations!  May his stay on the NYT list be as wondrous, and as long, as the book he gave us!

Seems more consistent with #7 to me. 

Good catch on Smokestance, Harakeke!  I do see Dalinar falling into that stance while fighting the monster,  and the tip is the closer in orientation towards the heart, as Assassin in White also notes.  

Very cool. Thanks!  So I think that should be definitive for Smokestance? But I’ll put PorridgeBrick’s suggestion down too. 

Flamestance seems to be very reminiscent of Saito Hajime's signature stance in  Kenshin:http://www.gigaventu...13/03/HZEKr.jpg (from the live action movie)

Thanks for the link, Rust and Ruin.  Yes, I sort of saw it like that too.  The only other ones that look like they might be one handed, with the other hand to the sword,  is 6 (non-grip hand looks too high to be on the hilt) and maybe 2. 

You've brought up some fascinating points about Windstance.  Do you know a lot about kendo?  The only things I know about it are what I watch on YouTube and some reading I’ve done.

And I agree with your take on Stonestance.  It does seem to be solid as a rock.  So I’ll put that image under the stance.

~~~

I hope we get to see more of these stances, and have the other ones identified in future books. 

I've tentatively rearranged the images to reflect everyone's thoughts, and also alphabetized them.  I am also going to add all the associated quotes to each stance that we've come up with so far.

Thanks for all your help! Any input is appreciated!

Hehe, I just made tacos tonight for dinner. Cheers to the Lopen for spreading chouta cravings!

It wouldn't be acceptable to Windrunners. However, Shallan poisoned her father, and as The Silver Queen said, Jasnah hired assassins. Even within the theme of journey before destination, I expect we'll see a wide range of ideas about ethical action. When it comes to the spren, well, not all spren are honorspren.

There was also that philosophical “lesson” in which Jasnah took Shallan out and deliberately baited murderers into a dark alley, where Jasnah killed the four men.  I remember being a bit awed that Jasnah came really close to being a vigilante, a philosophical choice she made in the use of her powers. 

The difference between her reasons for killing those men and Adolin killing Sadeas is motive.  Arguably, Jasnah was doing it to prevent more deaths, although there was a hint that she may have had an experience that traumatized her that could imply that some revenge was involved.  Whereas Adolin murdered Sadeas out of rage.  So it comes down to the killer’s motives for Odium’s purposes, whether it was a cold choice to serve the better good or to give in to lack of control and hate. 

So you’re right,  the lines can blur quite a bit within the KR Orders, which can certainly cause conflict among them.