Ailessar

I love the minifigures, they're perfect, you've even got Renarin and his spectacles. Seriously, that's exactly how I imagined Kaladin. I'd give you an upvote for each minifigure if I could. And the chasmfiend is wonderful! Next step -- Stormlight Archives: the Lego Movie.

Thanks so much, Inkthinker! I'll add my gushing to snote's and just say how awesome an artist you are. Your work has hugely sparked many an imagination here. (And I love that you added a glimpse of Adolin in the sketch. I would give you a hundred upvotes just for that.) So basically, I'm getting that the sketch is very much from a layperson's viewpoint. A lot like mine, as from someone who admires the sport of swordfighting because it can be beautiful as well as thrilling to watch. Thanks again!!

Welcome to the forum, snote! It's fun to speculate, and this is the right forum to do it! I'm not a swordsman, so I can't explain the "logic" of the fighting as described in the book (which is why I wanted to visualize these stances). Also, if you find a discrepancy, you can go to the Typos thread pinned above and ask Peter. There might well be more that have escaped editing, in a book this large. But I'm glad name_here was able to explain the discrepancy you mentioned. Hope you have fun joining in the craziness or forming your own theories! :-)

So Inkthinker is Ben?? Wow, I had no idea! lol I did email Ben on his website. And I'll PM Inkthinker here. Hopefully all my begging will wear him down. :-)

I've been following this thread and enjoying everyone's speculations. I keep coming back and hoping you've all unlocked the secrets of the maps. I may have missed this suggestion further back, but maybe a black hole? Like this image.

Although the signing last night was great, I got to meet other fans, and got my two books and Bridge Four patch signed, I was disappointed, though, that Brandon told me that I would have to email Ben McSweeney with my printout because he said the artist made the final determinations as to what the stances looked like based on Brandon’s descriptions. Brandon said that he could get them wrong too easily. Anyways I’ll email Ben. Sorry guys but it looks like we’ll have to keep speculating. So this really all comes down to the context in the books rather than real-world skills, as Inkthinker said. It might be a long time before I get any feedback, if at all. @AwesomenessSummoned, those are -- well, awesome! Upvote! I think your proposed names sound cool. Although the first one might be a toss between Windstance and Ironstance. For the last one, instead of “Victory/Success”, I thought that “For the Kill” or just “Kill” sounded apt. What term do fencers use when they score a hit? PS. This is an odd coincidence, but when I go to Ben's website, it's called Inkthiner.net.

Final votes: I’m thinking name_here’s argument for Ironstance and Windstance makes sense too (that’s what I thought at the beginning), so I’ll be on the fence and put both of them for each one. I know, I know, I’m cheating. But for the sake of our little contest the first choice is what should count. After all, I don’t want to get cookies via nefarious means. I’ve decided I’m going to do my best to go to the signing on Friday. I can leave early right after work and go straight there. It’s only an hour away, and I've been there before, so I should get there in plenty of time to snag my place in line. Barring the unforeseen, I’ll ask Brandon myself, since it seems Inkthinker has abandoned us. Or maybe Peter can end our uncertainty. Regardless I’ll bring the printout as well as a few questions. Meanwhile I’m busy working on my Mistborn cloak. I’m taking an old cloak and cutting it up into strips. I really want that Szeth figure! Edited: added final votes table

@rhandric, if you mean you have to buy a ticket to get in, then no, I believe it is free to come and sit in on the Q & A. But as NutiketAiel notes, it's a good idea to RSVP, just so they know how many seats to set up and how much space to give the signing. I think there will be a lot of people there. This is what the bookstore says about the book signing itself: I called them up and the lady told me that I can have up to three books signed, whether I pay the $5 fee or buy one book from them.

I checked the glyphs in the scroll that you indicated by blowing up the image and I didn’t see any of them that are identical to the illumination/light surge or the abrasion surge glyphs. Or maybe I’m not looking at them properly. At this point, I’ve had so much to do lately that it doesn’t take much to fool my eyes. @Wez, I’m not familiar with WOT, sadly I couldn’t finish the series even knowing Brandon was going to be at the end. I love the fighting in WoK and WoR, somehow the idea of knights in magical armor and with magical swords fighting like samurai gives me goosebumps. @abdf, good catch on that “sigh” in the sketch! Upvote! I wasn’t thinking that it might be Adolin, but that just makes so much sense. So we get a glimpse of Adolin’s face finally *sigh*. And I do agree with you now that #4 must be Windstance since it’s his favorite stance. Okay, because I was really confused, I had to make this table to get a clear idea of what you guys are voting for: Is this correct? I’m not sure about everyone else. So far the only ones we have solid agreement seems to be Flamestance, Smokesance, and Stonestance. (I’m wondering now if I should make a poll for other people to vote on.) I’m not even tackling the scroll not being the same as 4 or 2. My mind is, as expected, spinning right now. So the one who gets the most right, everybody else will be sending him/her cookies! Where’s Inkthinker? We need him to tell us which stance is which. Or I really need to go to the signing and ask Brandon myself.

It could be a form of Lightstance, possibly? Arcanist explained that the scroll depics a sparring match, and the stance we've been debating on is the first form on the top left. (I think it is Ironstance but there's been good points presented for it to be Windstance by PorridgeBrick and abdf.) We have no idea what the glyphs say. I probably should link that thread now. Do you have a link for the glyph for the illumination/surge on the KR chart endpaper? Thanks! Edited: added links to KR chart endpaper and to the glyph translation thread to the first post, as well as removed my votes for Ironstance and Windstance (I think abdf and PorridgeBrick may be right, and the post does look cleaner for it). Also added the pdf link that Arcanist provided.

Upvote on Two Steps From H---, eveorjoy! For me, pretty much anything Two Steps From H--- or Brand X Music apply. My Epic Music playlist is full of them. (edited: hehe, the censor kept turning H--- into 'calamity')

Hi Mailliw! Welcome to the thread, also name_here and Inkthinker! Mailliw, I did like your ideas and agree with most of it, but it seems Inkthinker might have put a twist in that. Inkthinker, yes please tell us! At least the ones that are mentioned in the book?? This is a good thing because I might not be able to make it to the signing this Friday. I was going to go in costume too. This week I’m starting a new job in addition to the freelance I’m doing. So—spill! Hehe Unless everyone wants to keep speculating? What do you all think? But even if I do get to go, I might still ask him for curiosity’s sake, unless you can PM me with the details? I feel a little nervous about asking authors for answers. I promise not to tell. Did he also happen to tell you what his influences were, whether Kendo, German/Italian longsword fencing, Kuk Sool Won, some other and/or a combination of all these? @TheArcanist, thank you for the pdf, I scanned through it but have not had the time to properly read. @abdf, good, well-thought out points all, that’s why I’m reconsidering my votes. I’m rethinking my ideas on Ironstance and Windstance as I ponder. At least we can speculate on the remaining stances by process of elimination! I like Lightstance too for Lucentia. Oilstance or Tallowstance? I like Sinewstance. Bloodstance sounds properly grisly. As well as PorridgeBrick’s image of Butcherstance, or possibly Cleaverstance? This could be #1, an overhead chopping motion. And I agree that #10 seems to go well with that image of a Shardbearer plowing through, say, a rank of Parshendi. I’ll have to link up that glyph-translating thread once they break the code, thanks Mailliw!

Kaladin as KR and his 'squires' sitting around the fire eating stew. I want to think that nothing has changed as far as their relationships, that they're still his bridgemen and he's their commander. It was a comforting constant in WoR, and I would like to cling to that through the undoubtedly many changes coming up ahead.

Great catch, PorridgeBrick! You rock! So Alethi martial arts could be partially based on Kuk Sool Won! Good point. Have you found any other similar stances? I found these. Similar to Smokestance, with it’s sword-and-knife form: http://www.northwestkuksoolwon.com/DuelingSwords.gif I spy Vinestance and Stonestance here (second and fourth from left): http://kuksoolny.com/images/5blackbelts-weapons-park.jpg Stonestance in this defensive posture (ground swordsman, left). Hehe, his purpose seems to be to serve as a (stone) ladder for his partner as well as defense: http://www.kuksoolwonuiuc.com/images/kuksanim/swd4.JPG And the ground swordsman seems to be moving from the Vinestance? Which goes with what Rust and Ruin and Arcanist has said: http://kuksoolwonofpacifica.com/images/grandMasterSword1.jpg I couldn’t help noting these for # 1 (I won’t call it Windstance, since I could be wrong). Notice how much time the guy spends in the air with this stance? http://www.stpaulksw.com/blog/wp-content/images/weapons/kwan-jang-nim-fan-techniques.jpg http://kswgarland.com/wp-content/gallery/action/kuksanimsword-pic.jpg?9d7bd4 http://www.kuksoolwonuiuc.com/images/kuksanim/swd1.JPG http://kuksoolwonofpacifica.com/images/grandMasterSword1.jpg http://www.stpaulksw.com/images/whatIsKukSool/weapons.jpg And Kuk Sool Won seems to cover a wide range of weapons, including sword, knives, short staffs, longstaffs, spears and bows! Kaladin may well be doing Kuk Sool Won spear forms. http://www.stpaulksw.com/blog/31/kuk-sool-won-weapons-complete-with-pictures/ Although you guys are probably right in that Brandon has used many different influences, including Kendo, German and Italian longsword schools, and now, Kuk Sool Won. I’m going to ask Brandon about Kuk Sool Won, though. It’s so very likely he has seen it in Korea, right? How long did he stay there? Thanks Arcanist for that visual description of the scroll! It’s supposed to be really quick, isn’t it? I mean, the opponent is dead in three moves. I love it when fight scenes come alive in my mind. And I think I’ve seen those moves somewhere on YouTube, I’ve been looking for it but it was too long ago to be in my history any more. I’ll update the first post by adding these possible martial arts influences. The first post is getting really long, so I’ll probably change it by linking to quotes and other images rather than displaying them there.

I just finished re-reading Lift's interlude and I noticed this also Could Yaezir be the Azish name for Jezrien?

I have a question about this quote Is it really meant to be "discrete," or maybe it's "discreet"? I've been puzzling over the context and I think it could go either way.

adbf and PorridgeBrick, I’ll put your votes down for Windstance and Ironstance, thanks! You’ve brought up very good points, especially about the orientation of the blade edge and the transition from Windstance to Ironstance, and that quote does support it. adbf, do you mean these two stances? So the blade on the left is facing the right, not left? The reason I think # 1 seems to be good match for Windstance is in the description itself. "Adolin used Windstance, turned sideways slightly, hands before him and elbows bent, Shardblade pointing back over his head." I may be wrong, but it’s the only one that has the hands before him, and not to the side of the head, and where the Shardblade is pointing back over his head. (For that reason, I’m removing # 9 from Windstance, since the hands are beside his head, as in Ironstance). The elbows don’t seem tremendously bent at that angle but I think if there were a front-view that it would more clearly show the elbows bent. However, I do agree that it is facing more forward than “sideways slightly.” Hmm… Also, if we are going to assume that these stances take on some characteristic of their Essences and Orders, however slight, I think that the blade being up so high in # 1 , in fact the highest of any of the depicted stances, might indicate that this stance is meant for those sweeping, majestic cuts where you have the most space above and around you, as a Windrunner, for example, might have that space fighting when he is aloft. So my vote stays for # 1 for Windstance. ~~~ Thanks for the info, Arcanist! Woot, another martial arts expert in the house! So you think we’ve matched the stances to the images so far, then? Or do you have other opinions as to which is what? I’ll include your comments for each stance above because I think they are very informative. ~~~ To make things more complicated, now I am wondering if those images in Shallan’s sketch do not actually depict each of the ten stances, but are perhaps forms of the stances that are known so far? Could each stance have more than one form, perhaps? What do the martial arts experts think? And what about the stances of the right-hand opponent here? It’s a lot of fun trying to figure what is what, but I’m seriously thinking of asking Brandon when I go to have my book signed next week in Philly if he could match these images to the stances. I’ll bring a printout. If anyone else is going to the signings before the Philly one (March 21) and would be inclined to ask Brandon for confirmation, please do! If you like, I can email you a printout with the images in a list format so Brandon can make note of the stance more easily. Thanks again everyone!

I am a stick. What is ‘am’? Do you know the meaning of the word? ‘Am’ is but an expression of your universal self in its eternal cycle of existence. So even though you ‘am’ a stick now, it’s really the same thing as you ‘am’ fire. Say the words ‘I am fire.’ You’ll see it’s true. I am a stick. Stick, do you know how many sticks long to be fire? To burn brightly and be a light to the world? You’re crazy to pass this chance up to light up the world. I am a stick. Did you not know that fire is the highest ambition of all sticks? That it’s, like, the first dahn of sticks? I am a stick. Listen, stick. Let’s play a game. If you be fire, I’ll be warm and toasty. I am a stick. Hey, stick, fires are babe magnets. They get to meet all the cute chick sticks. I am fire!

I've been sort of hoping that for Adolin, despite the turn he has taken. I'd like to think that Adolin talking to his blade is foreshadowing that. Will this thread be pinned? It's so helpful!

I'm wondering that too. Does anyone know if Brandon is a martial arts fan? Does he have an inner samurai fighting to get out? Or maybe he had a martial arts expert to consult in creating his own martial arts system? These might be interesting questions to ask him when I go to the signing in Philly. If you've rescinded your vote, PorridgeBrick, I'll crown Smokestance as being definitiely identified.

So happy for Brandon! Congratulations! May his stay on the NYT list be as wondrous, and as long, as the book he gave us!

Good catch on Smokestance, Harakeke! I do see Dalinar falling into that stance while fighting the monster, and the tip is the closer in orientation towards the heart, as Assassin in White also notes. Very cool. Thanks! So I think that should be definitive for Smokestance? But I’ll put PorridgeBrick’s suggestion down too. Thanks for the link, Rust and Ruin. Yes, I sort of saw it like that too. The only other ones that look like they might be one handed, with the other hand to the sword, is 6 (non-grip hand looks too high to be on the hilt) and maybe 2. You've brought up some fascinating points about Windstance. Do you know a lot about kendo? The only things I know about it are what I watch on YouTube and some reading I’ve done. And I agree with your take on Stonestance. It does seem to be solid as a rock. So I’ll put that image under the stance. ~~~ I hope we get to see more of these stances, and have the other ones identified in future books. I've tentatively rearranged the images to reflect everyone's thoughts, and also alphabetized them. I am also going to add all the associated quotes to each stance that we've come up with so far. Thanks for all your help! Any input is appreciated!

Hehe, I just made tacos tonight for dinner. Cheers to the Lopen for spreading chouta cravings!

This is my very first theory post! The sword fighting in WoR has been provoking fangasms in me. I’ve been looking for more information about the different new fighting styles in WoR, and after finding out that there are at least ten stances, one for each of the Ten Essences, I’ve been hunting the book for whatever I can find. I badly want to visualize the fighting styles as they’re described in the book. Thankfully Shallan’s artwork and the Ironstance scroll have been very helpful, but I’m having trouble putting the right image to the right stance. Has anyone already figured this out and/or is there a resource somewhere that has already catalogued this? I’ve already checked the Coppermind Wiki. My theory is that Shallan’s sketch shows all ten of the stances. (Edited to add) Ben McSweeney, aka Inkthinker, the wonderful artist who has created the following sketch and others in the books that make them come to such vivid, three-dimensional life and richness for me, has kindly explained to us a few things about the sketch. Larger image here Brandon told me at the signing in Philly that Ben made the final determinations about what the stances looked like, so we're all waiting with baited breath for Ben to reveal whatever Brandon sees fit to let us know. Meanwhile, the rest of this post consists of theorizing by us, the fans. ~~~~ Ironstance was easy, the scroll was displayed right before the Ironstance chapter. In my opinion, abdf gives a convincing argument here that the warrior in the lower left (the stance we call #4) that I previously thought of as Ironstance is actually Adolin in his favorite stance, Windstance. The "sigh" scribbled under the face convinced me that Shallan is drooling here over Adolin! On the other hand, name_here makes some good points here to indicate that the warrior in the lower left is in Ironstance. The six known stances are a bit harder to match but I think some can be recognized. The others may have to wait for future books. So far there are still four unnamed stances which will be after the essences of “oil/tallow,” “Lucentia/the eyes,” “blood,” and “sinew/flesh.” The Ten Essences are listed in this graph in the Coppermind wiki: http://coppermind.net/wiki/Ten_Essences ~~~~ These are some of the related threads I’ve found: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/3833-shardblade-forms/?hl=stances started by DocHoliday http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/3044-stances-in-twok/?hl=stances started by Mailliw73 A question was asked if whether each of the stances are specifically geared towards a particular order? I tend to agree with the explanation that these are fighting styles that have simply evolved with the names of the ten essences, with characteristics of the Order or Essence they’re named after. ~~~~ Also, here's the link to the thread where they're trying to translate the glyphs for the scroll, or fechtbuch as it is called: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/6487-thaylen-and-alethi-glyph-translation/ started by Harakeke Larger image here Here's a link to the KR chart endpaper, created by of Isaac Stewart, that show the KR glyphs: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/6888-knights-radiant-and-surges-endsheet/?hl=chart AwesomenessSummoned has created awesome graphics of the glyphs on the fechtbuch, as shown in this post. These are some of them: ~~~~ THE STANCES (Edited to factor everyone's input) (In Alphabetical Order) Flamestance “Flamestance: quick and flexible, better for shorter Shardblades.” -WoR, p. 224 “[salinor] fell into Flamestance, sword held one-handed, other hand touching the blade, standing with a square posture of the feet. " - WoR, pg. 224 "Salinor dropped his Blade— a weakness of Flamestance’s one-handed posture…” - WoR, p 224 Used by Salinor in Adolin’s first arena duel "[Adolin] needed the frantic fury of Flamestance. Not just for the power, but because of what he needed to convey to Eshonai." -WoR p. 1011 Interesting comparison by Rust and Ruin – Possibly based on this stance in Kuk Sool Won, the Korean martial art, as discovered by PorridgeBrick here: http://www.kuksoolwon-hurlburt.com/pictures/amado_sword_stance.jpg Ironstance “It wasn't time for a show. It was time for a beating...Adolin twisted and fell into Ironstance, with his sword held two-handed up beside his head.” - Wor, p. 224 "Adolin twisted and fell into Ironstance, with his sword held two-handed up beside his head. He slapped away Salinor’s first strike, then stepped in and slammed his Blade down into the man’s helm. Once, twice, three times" - WoR 224 Seems to favor quick, inelegant, powerful hits TheArcanist - abdf and PorridgeBrick's vote: abdf - PorridgeBrick - or or name_here's vote Smokestance "Dalinar moved to the overturned table and kicked off one of the legs. He scooped it up, falling into Smokestance's sword-and-knife form." -WoK p. 299 (Good catch by Harakeke!) "Dalinar leapt forward— remaining in motion was the essence of Smokestance— and spun between the creatures, striking to the side with his poker." - WoK, p. 299 "Dalinar let the fluid nature of Smokestance direct him, stepping to the side and smashing the poker into the beast’s legs." - WoR, p. 300 “[Dalinar] had been trained in classical Windstance, but he fell into Smokestance instead, as it was better with an imperfect weapon. One foot forward, one foot behind, sword— or, in this case, poker— held forward with the tip toward his opponent’s heart." - WoK, P. 298 “Adolin tried Smokestance, attacking with a quick sequence of jabs." -WoR p 1023 TheArcanist notes: Stonestance “…to be immobile.” "Adolin fell into Stonestance himself, smashing his Blade down again and again against Abrobadar’s raised sword until he heard grunts, curses." - WoR p. 660 Rust and Ruin pointed out how TheArcanist - [/size] Vinestance “[Relis] preferred Vinestance, slow and steady, but with sudden, quick lunges." - WoR, p. 656 “The man attacked quickly, using what Kaladin could now identify as Vinestance— a style of fighting that focused on defensive footing and flexibility." - WoR, p. 667 TheArcanist - Possibly? or adbf's votes: Windstance "Adolin used Windstance, turned sideways slightly, hands before him and elbows bent, Shardblade pointing back over his head." - WoK, p. 822 "Adolin dodged another blow, but he had begun to move into Windstance’s offensive forms." - WoK, p. 824 "Dalinar was once again forced to parry, something Windstance wasn’t intended do to." - WoK, p. 930 “Adolin fell into Windstance, elbows bent, turned to the side, sword’s tip pointing up and backward.” - WoR, p. 224 “Windstance: flowing, sweeping, majestic.” - WoR, p. 224 "Adolin danced away in Windstance— certainly the best against so many foes— with both hands holding the Blade in front of him, positioned sideways with one foot forward." - WoR, p. 659 Rust and Ruin also points out that TheArcanist (for fig. 1 & 9, which is removed) – adbf and PorridgeBrick's vote: PorridgeBrick - or name_here's vote ~~~ The only images we can't account for yet: ~~~~ Thanks to TheArcanist and PorridgeBrick, who think that possible influences are: German/Italian longsword fencing schools - TheArcanist's post here, and the pdf he linked. Kuk Sool Won, Korean martial arts - PorridgeBrick's post here Kendo, the Japanese sword martial art - PorridgeBrick's post here and TheArcanist's post here ~~~~ Thank you for everybody's help! Any quotes and input are appreciated! (Edited to add possible influences; corrected some typos and added Kuk Sool Won pic to Flamestance 03/15/2014) (Edited to add link to glyph translation thread, added links for pdf and Kuk Sool Won 0318) (Edited to remove my votes for Ironstance and Windstance. I think PorridgeBrick and abdf are correct. 03/18/2014) (Edited to add more links 03/19/2014) (Edited some paragraphs and corrected spelling 03/20/2014) (Edited to add new votes 03/23/2014) (Edited to add Inkthinker's quote 03/24/2014) (Edited to add AwesomenessSummoned's graphic glyphs 03252014)