Fighting Stances in WoR [SPOILERS]

[PorridgeBrick]

Do you know the name for the stance of the tenth essence, aka Butcherstance? I've got a funny image in my head now of Adolin wearing an apron and holding a cleaver in the dueling arena.

[TheArcanist]

You wouldn't be inclined to give us a hint now, would you Inkthinker? Just to make things easier?

[name_here]

Can anyone identify the inspiration for #6? It looks to me like it's during or immediately after a lunge, but the sword is wildly out of position for that. #10 seems pretty clearly intended for a massive sweeping arc to send the Shardblade through a rank of spearmen.

[PorridgeBrick]

It kinda looks a little like Plow from that Ebook Arcanist linked, except for leaning really far forward.

[Mailliw73]

Fleshstance? Sinewstance? I like Lightstance.

[Inkthinker]

damnation... I hadn't thought about it, but not all stance names are revealed, are they? I can't give it up if it ain't been published, them's the rules. I like playing with these toys too much to break the rules.



They do all have names, he puts thought into this. But he might want to change a name later, so it's better not to to establish it unless it's already been laid out in the book. Sorry, I didn't intend to tease.

I'll find out if I'm at least allowed to confirm guesses as correct (i.e. "that is Ironstance") but honestly, if we both did our jobs proper then you should be able to figure out the named stances through context, with the sketches to give you a visual cue.

-EDIT-

Also, has anyone gotten around to translating the fechtbuch page? Glyphs aren't just for looking pretty, y'know...

Edited March 18, 2014 by Inkthinker

[Mailliw73]

I think the people over in the Alethi glyph translating thread are working on it.

[Ailessar]

Hi Mailliw!  Welcome to the thread, also name_here and Inkthinker!  Mailliw, I did like your ideas and agree with most of it, but it seems Inkthinker might have put a twist in that.

 

Inkthinker, yes please tell us!  At least the ones that are mentioned in the book??  This is a good thing because I might not be able to make it to the signing this Friday.  I was going to go in costume too. This week I’m starting a new job in addition to the freelance I’m doing.  So—spill!  Hehe

 

Unless everyone wants to keep speculating?  What do you all think? 

 

But even if I do get to go, I might still ask him for curiosity’s sake, unless you can PM me with the details?  I feel a little nervous about asking authors for answers. I promise not to tell.  Did he also happen to tell you what his influences were, whether Kendo, German/Italian longsword fencing, Kuk Sool Won, some other and/or a combination of all these?

 

@TheArcanist, thank you for the pdf, I scanned through it but have not had the time to properly read.  

 

@abdf, good, well-thought out points all, that’s why I’m reconsidering my votes. I’m rethinking my ideas on Ironstance and Windstance as I ponder.

 

At least we can speculate on the remaining stances by process of elimination!  I like Lightstance too for Lucentia.  Oilstance or Tallowstance? I like Sinewstance. Bloodstance sounds properly grisly.  As well as PorridgeBrick’s image of Butcherstance, or possibly Cleaverstance?  This could be #1, an overhead chopping motion. And I agree that #10 seems to go well with that image of a Shardbearer plowing through, say, a rank of Parshendi.  

 

I’ll have to link up that glyph-translating thread once they break the code, thanks Mailliw!

Edited March 18, 2014 by Ailessar

[Mailliw73]

Thanks, Aile!

On this image, the second one down on the left. The glyph looks quite a bit like the glyph for the illumination/light surge on the KR chart endpaper. Is this Lightstance.

[Ailessar]

It could be a form of Lightstance, possibly?  Arcanist explained that the scroll depics a sparring match, and the stance we've been debating on is the first form on the top left.  (I think it is Ironstance but there's been good points presented for it to be Windstance by PorridgeBrick and abdf.)  We have no idea what the glyphs say.  I probably should link that thread now.  Do you have a link for the glyph for the illumination/surge on the KR chart endpaper?  Thanks!

 

Edited: added links to KR chart endpaper and to the glyph translation thread to the first post, as well as removed my votes for Ironstance and Windstance (I think abdf and PorridgeBrick may be right, and the post does look cleaner for it).  Also added the pdf link that Arcanist provided.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Ailessar

[adbf]

It’s still difficult for me to get myself reconciled with the thought, that the left swordsman from the Fechtbuch and the #4 from Shallan’s sketch could be the same stance. Despite all their similarity they just have too different feel. Whatever, #2 is too very similar to the fechtbuch left stance, even more similar in details more important like the elbow position IMHO being more important than from which side of the head is the blade.

 

And as Inkthinker says we have to look for context… About the context of #4 on the Shallan’s sketch - had somebody looked into the possibility that #4 is actually depicting Adolin?

 

The shape of the helm of #4 matches perfectly the helm of the young man with the open visor just above the #4. The same portrait that goes together with the text “sigh”. Something leads me to the feeling, that a text “sigh” under a portrait would maybe match very well  somebody who previously declared in public, that she is not going to sketch Adolin, yes? And the form of this specific Shardblade? “Its surface was austerely smooth, long, sinuous like an eel, with ridges at the back like growing crystals.” I’d say it matches quite well. And what is Adolin’s favorite stance? While he used Ironstance only once, long before Shallan could arrive at the Shattered Plains.

 

Considering Vinestance, up until Inkthinker’s revelation, that we looked too much into realworld techniques, I was agreeing with #3 with the second choice of #1 or #6, as all of them being slowly preparing and poised for a sudden lunge, and despite all of them having too linear a feel against a turning motion one could expect to associate with “Vine”. Now I’m starting to think mainly about #9. The flexibility and the defensive footing here seem to match very well with the similar footing in the Flamestance. #9 has a feel of rooted in the ground and ready to unfold like sweeping branches. I was reluctant to expect exactly lunges from #9, but after the hint to not look too much into the realworld techniques… who knows, the feel of a sudden strike looming is certainly there. The next choice would be in this case #10 - here the swordsman is poised for a very powerful sweeping from down upward - something matching a feel for a plant growth.

 

For Pulp, it could be also a Musclestance?

[PorridgeBrick]

I think it's best to stick with #3 for Vine. Since we have no context in the book, all we have to go by is real world usage, and that's what suggests #3. While Brandon may not be a swordsman, neither am I: and I'm sure he's done some degree of research on this, since he is so big on worldbuilding. So while they may not match up exactly, I think it's best to keep them matched by real world usage until proven wrong.

Oh, and nice catch on 4. I automatically assumed it was Adolin, but never stopped to think of the implications.

[AerionBFII]

I love the fighting stances in this book; Wind, vine, iron, fire etc. I think it is really unique!

​I liked the fighting style in WOT but i prefer the names and techniques in the Stormlight Archive makes it feel more real

[Mailliw73]

It could be a form of Lightstance, possibly?  Arcanist explained that the scroll depics a sparring match, and the stance we've been debating on is the first form on the top left.  (I think it is Ironstance but there's been good points presented for it to be Windstance by PorridgeBrick and abdf.)  We have no idea what the glyphs say.  I probably should link that thread now.  Do you have a link for the glyph for the illumination/surge on the KR chart endpaper?  Thanks!

 

Edited: added links to KR chart endpaper and to the glyph translation thread to the first post, as well as removed my votes for Ironstance and Windstance (I think abdf and PorridgeBrick may be right, and the post does look cleaner for it).  Also added the pdf link that Arcanist provided.

this. With the one I said in my last post.

[Mailliw73]

Sorry for the double post.

I also think thislooks like the third one on the left in the fechtbuch image. That's the friction surge though, so I don't know which stance that would be.

[Ailessar]

I checked the glyphs in the scroll that you indicated by blowing up the image and I didn’t see any of them that are identical to the illumination/light surge or the abrasion surge glyphs.  Or maybe I’m not looking at them properly.  At this point, I’ve had so much to do lately that it doesn’t take much to fool my eyes.

 

@Wez,  I’m not familiar with WOT, sadly I couldn’t finish the series even knowing Brandon was going to be at the end.  I love the fighting in WoK and WoR, somehow the idea of knights in magical armor and with magical swords fighting like samurai gives me goosebumps.

 

@abdf, good catch on that “sigh” in the sketch! Upvote! I wasn’t thinking that it might be Adolin, but that just makes so much sense.  So we get a glimpse of Adolin’s face finally *sigh*.  And I do agree with you now that #4 must be Windstance since it’s his favorite stance. 

 

Okay, because I was really confused, I had to make this table to get a clear idea of what you guys are voting for:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is this correct?  I’m not sure about everyone else. So far the only ones we have solid agreement seems to be Flamestance, Smokesance, and Stonestance. (I’m wondering now if I should make a poll for other people to vote on.)    I’m not even tackling the scroll not being the same as 4 or 2.  My mind is, as expected, spinning right now.

 

So the one who gets the most right, everybody else will be sending him/her cookies!

 

Where’s Inkthinker?  We need him to tell us which stance is which. Or I really need to go to the signing and ask Brandon myself.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Ailessar

[Harakeke]

I checked the glyphs in the scroll that you indicated by blowing up the image and I didn’t see any of them that are identical to the illumination/light surge or the abrasion surge glyphs.  Or maybe I’m not looking at them properly.  At this point, I’ve had so much to do lately that it doesn’t take much to fool my eyes.

 

I concur. I still can't *read* either set properly, but they're definitely different syllables.

[TheArcanist]

Here are my votes:

 

Flamestance: 8

Ironstance: 2

Smokestance: 7

Stonestance: 5

Vinestance: 3

Windstance: 4

Scroll is the same as 2: No

Scroll is the same as 4: Yes

 

Previously, I have asserted that Fig. 4 was likely a form of Ironstance, but going back over the information and seeing how similar Ironstance and Windstance are supposed to be, I am now of the opinion that Windstance is Fig. 4 and Ironstance is Fig. 2 In light of that, I went back and re-examined the duel depicted on the scroll, and have decided that the Left-Hand Warrior is actually in Windstance. In that case, I'm probably going to have to go back and edit it.

 

Could someone link me the translation key for Alethi glyphs and a larger copy of the scroll image? I happen to enjoy translation, and I'm pretty good at telling the difference between glyphs.

Edited March 19, 2014 by TheArcanist

[name_here]

I stand by my Ironstance and Windstance position. In #2, the sword hilt is in front, while in #4, it is beside the head. Our descriptions of entering the starting position of both specifically mention hand position, so I'm strongly inclined to pick images that match the hand position. As for Adolin being in it, while he prefers Windstance in general, his singular use of Ironstance attracted quite a lot of attention, so Shallan might have had him pose for Ironstance because he's clearly pretty good at it.

 

The scroll looks like #4 to me, since it's got the sword next to the head. I feel pretty confident asserting the left-hand warrior is in Ironstance, since he goes for a straightforward stab that seems in keeping with Ironstance's tendency towards simple, fast, and powerful. As for blade orientation, I think both sides of a Shardblade are sharp.

[TheArcanist]

We need to get Inkthinker back over here so he can confirm or refute our ideas. I absolutely agree, however, that both sides of a Shardblade are probably sharp. Having a weapon as undiscriminatingly destructive as a Shardblade be handicapped by having one blunt side doesn't seem like a smart idea.

Edited March 19, 2014 by TheArcanist

[PorridgeBrick]

My votes

Flamestance: 8

Ironstance: 2 or 1. Both work equally well for me.

Smokestance: 7

Stonestance: 5

Vinestance: 3

Windstance: 4

Scroll is same as 4: Yes. Any differences can be easily explained by the fact that it's a medieval style drawing, which always screw up proportions big time (seriously, look up those German/Italian stances Arcanist was talking about. The original medieval drawings are awful for figuring out the stance). And the sword edge doesn't matter, since Shardblades are double-edged.

Scroll is same as 2: No.

Oh, @Arcanist: I think you mixed up your votes. If the scroll shows Windstance, and Windstance is 4, then the scroll shows 4, not 2.

[TheArcanist]

Oh, so I did. I'm going to have to fix that. Yes, the original diagrams really suck- thank God that ebook comes with actual pictures.

[adbf]

And the sword edge doesn't matter, since Shardblades are double-edged.

No, only some Blades are double-edged. remember how often Adolin is shown resting the blunt side of his Blade to his Plate. Most importantly the left fighter on the fechtbuch and Adolin (#4) bear definitely single-egded Blades.

 

And yes, my votes are represented correctly in the table. Save I'm not sure about the Stonestance, but let say #5 looks the most likely.

[Ailessar]

Final votes:

 

 

 

I’m thinking name_here’s argument for Ironstance and Windstance makes sense too (that’s what I thought at the beginning), so I’ll be on the fence and put both of them for each one. I know, I know, I’m cheating.    But for the sake of our little contest the first choice is what should count.  After all, I don’t want to get cookies via nefarious means.

 

I’ve decided I’m going to do my best to go to the signing on Friday.  I can leave early right after work and go straight there.  It’s only an hour away, and I've been there before, so I should get there in plenty of time to snag my place in line.  Barring the unforeseen, I’ll ask Brandon myself, since it seems Inkthinker has abandoned us.  Or maybe Peter can end our uncertainty.  Regardless I’ll bring the printout as well as a few questions.  Meanwhile I’m busy working on my Mistborn cloak.  I’m taking an old cloak and cutting it up into strips.  I really want that Szeth figure! 

 

Edited: added final votes table

Edited March 23, 2014 by Ailessar

[TheArcanist]

I'm very excited to hear what Brandon has to say, if you get the chance to ask him about all this. Also- I've been working to recreate the duel on the scroll with some sparring partners of mine, but it's fairly difficult. We don't have Shardplate to make things lighter, and the closest thing we have to a sword that big is a staff. In any case, I'm trying my best and if something comes of it I'll post the video of the experiment here.