Roamer

I hope it's something along these lines. I really want to see the good guys end up with this kind of living essence.

So I was listening to the chapter where Dalinar fights the creatures known as Midnight Essence alongside the two Knights Radiant, and a half-baked theory started forming in my head. I first perked up when I heard the Knight refer to "the ten deaths" when presumably discussing the thrill with Dalinar. We know there are 10 essences, so there was my first tiny connection between the deaths and the essences. Add to that the fact that the creatures in the chapter are referred to as midnight ESSENCE and the correlation becomes stronger. Finally when I realized the creatures were bleeding smoke when injured (one of the 10 essences) I became convinced there was something extremely interesting going on here. So my half baked theory is that these 10 deaths are created by a surge or some other form of magic we haven't been introduced to and that they are created by humans, not by odium or the nightwatcher. In the chapter one of the knights specifically mentions that the identity and motive of the person who released the essence is unknown. This seems to be a clear indicator to me that it was a human that released the essence. The Knights don't act surprised to see it and note it is a harbinger of a desolation, but they don't ascribe the release of midnight essence to a higher power or natural phenomenon either. So my question would be, do we know yet of a surge that may be able to manipulate the 10 essences in such a fashion? Because I think it would be beyond awesome if one of the soulcasting orders could create creatures from the 10 essences to fight in battle. Am I crazy, or would anyone else like to see that? Edit: Ok so smoke isn't one of the 10 essences according to the SA wikk, but I still like the idea.

Hmmm, let me consult my list: Intelligent...check Independent (as in not needy)....check Elegant/Classy...check Driven/Successful...check Extremely attractive...check Courageous and strong...check It's Jasnah for me folks! Something tells me her affection is not won easily. If she does end up with someone during stormlight archive he's got his work cut out for him winning her over.

Mine is cannonfodder#1481 I would love to find a good group of people to do arenas with and rated bgs.

So far I've enjoyed the time jump from the Mistborn series to the Alloy of Law.

I've always wondered how drunk or desperate one would have to be to mate with a Koloss?

I thought this too at first. I wondered if they were wuss-spren, but if you think about it he does have a number of good qualities and Dalinar seems to think he has great potential. He's brave when it comes to dangers he can face in battle....I just think this particular problem is one that he is not well equipped by nature to deal with. I believe his fears will be laid to rest soon however, as Jasnah and Shallan are on their way to the shattered plains. His sister happens to be well equipped in both intellect and character to help him sort everything out. Does anyone think it odd that these powers are manifesting themselves so heavily among the Kholin family? We know something is going on with Dalinar and Jasnah. We have hints that something is happening to Elhokar as well. I wonder if Gavilar had been experiencing anything similar prior to his death. At first I thought these changes might have all occurred post-assasination, but we seem to get hints that Jasnah at least has been soulcasting for quite sometime and has a working knowledge of shadesmar. Why would these abilities manifest themselves in larger proportions among the kholins?

I have a man on the inside who has confirmed not only that odium has selected a champion, but that champion's identity as well. Spoilerific reveal below

I think the punishment they are scared of is not being worthy to fight for the heralds in order to reclaim the tranquiline halls. Their whole culture is built around the idea that they must maximize their competence in any chosen field in order to be worthy to join the herald's fight. Being a great warrior is prized above nearly all else and the killings they commit in war whether justified or not (as in meaningless border disputes etc), are all simply an effort to prove themselves worthy to join the heralds. How will they react when they discover that the Heralds lost, broke the oathpact and are not actually fighting the voidbringers in the tranquiline halls? How will they react when they discover that honor is dead, vorinism (in its current form at least) is false and that they are a corrupted shadow of the people their ancestors were? Somehow I think it won't be pretty.

I found another hint while finishing the book again. Sorry that I don't have the exact quotes, but I drive a lot and have been listening to the audio book. The audible app is a pain to use when trying to find a specific quote, so again, sorry. You remember when Dalinar is at the King's feast and we see another high prince use his ardent to manipulate a merchant into signing a contract quickly? Dalinar has an exchange with this ardent and then reflects on the fact that even though the ardentia is theoretically supposed to stay out of politics, that they are becoming more influential at court. Just another hint that the ardentia have more going on than meets the eye. The ardents that would want to be involved in court politics would be the ones that still cling to old vorinism like Kabsal. Ardents who are angry that they were scourged and believe that religious rule would be better for mankind than what they currently have.

I considered the capture option, but as cool as it would be it seems unlikely. How do you disarm someone with a shardblade? How can you confine someone with a shardblade to any type of captivity? On second thought I guess that depends on how summoning works. Does one need to have a hand free in order to summon a blade? If so maybe szeth could have fingerless iron gauntlets strapped to his forearms/hands that would prevent him from grasping his blade when it is summoned.

Good points. Heinous can refer to many things other than the quantity of lives taken. It's probably just my over-active imagination wanting to create Szeth's back story, but I'm sure when we get his real back story it will be awesome.

Some good points smidge. I always assumed the second quote was merely Dalinar overstating the Kings effectiveness in order to bolster his confidence, but I certainly could be wrong. Even his own mother admits he sucks as a king, so I have a hard time seeing him as the kingdom's savior. Now for the first quote, we know the Dalinar that existed when the vengeance pact was made was not the studious, history reading kind of high prince...more the drunk in his cups when not fighting kind of high prince (like at the treaty signing celebration). I think the danger of the kingdom splitting seems to have increased over time as the high princes have been allowed to operate largely on their own on the shattered plains and that is what has Dalinar so concerned. Or in other words, his concerns feel more recent to me. I think the vengeance pact was not a desperate bid to keep the kingdom unified, but the way I read it, was a natural response of the war-like alethi people. Regarding your last point, I don't know if I'm convinced. Szeth didn't say he had committed one of the worst slaughters of his life, but that he had committed one of the most heinous slaughters in all of Roshar, so the fact that it was Szeth's worst slaughter do date doesn't seem to matter. He appears to be measuring on a scale that is bigger than the scope of his own actions (as in All of Roshar). Furthermore, Roshar seems to be a place of war and intrigue, especially among the Alethi. They are the type of people that will send hundreds of bridgemen to slaughter without a second thought. With that in mind I find it hard to believe that the killing of a king and a few guards was one of the most heinous slaughters in all of Roshar. Of course, maybe Szeth was referring to the fact that nobody can slaughter with as much ease as himself. It really is like shooting fish in a barrel for him, so maybe that is what makes it so heinous.

So during my re-read I came to the chapter where we see szeth sent to assassinate his master's rival thug in Bavland. I don't have my book in front of me, so I'll just summarize the quotes. When szeth arrives at the home of his target, he finds that he is already dead and a mysterious soulcaster is waiting for him. This soulcaster says szeth, "nearly toppled on of the greatest kingdoms in Roshar". To which szeth responds that he had, "committed one of the most heinous slaughters in Roshar". I have always assumed this comment was referring to his assassination of Gavilar, but on further reflection that doesn't make much sense. We never read that the Alethi Kingdom suffered any kind of succession crisis. On the contrary, it seems that Gavilar's murder was a galvanizing event that resulted in the vengeance pact. So how could this comment be referring to Alethkar, which wasn't close to toppling at all by szeth's actions? Also as far as a heinous slaughter goes, does the killing of Gavilar and a few soldiers qualify? Sure he killed a few people, but it's not like he butchered dozens and dozens like he does later in the story. It just doesn't seem to fit. This mysterious soulcaster seems to know a lot about szeth personally such as the name of his father. By that can we conclude that he also must know something surrounding the events that led to szeth becoming truthless? I started to wonder today if the kingdom szeth almost toppled was his own?

I don't think someone needs to be honorable to access power through the spren bond. In one of Dalinar's visions Nohadon mentions that not all spren are as discerning as honorspren. Shallan has proven to be dishonorable in a few instances, but since her bond is developing with a truthspren (seemingly), her lack of honor doesn't affect her developing power. I do think we are going to see Szeth reject stone shamanism at some point and break free of his oathstone though. I think he will battle Kaladin, Adolin and Dalinar, but will be wounded to the point he has to retreat. He would never allow himself to be killed if he were wounded to the point he knew he could not complete his mission. That would release him from the pain he is meant to suffer as truthless and I don't think he would allow that to happen if he could avoid it.

I agree. Physical submission under threat of violence does not often correlate to intellectual or spiritual submission. I imagine that there remained enough bitterness and hostility in the ardentia to keep many ideas of the hierocracy alive.

Hi everyone, I lurk here quite a bit, but wanted to post some of my thoughts as I am re-reading WoK and get some input. As I was reading I was struck with the possibility that there is something more going on in the ardentia than meets the eye. I don't have any hard evidence, but there is some circumstantial evidence that I thought would be worth mentioning. First of all is the connection between the teachings of the ardents and the goals of Taravangian. When Dalinar and Adolin are talking in the King's map room, Adolin quotes some vorin scripture to him that claims mortality is basically chaos and that the only peace/order available is to be found in the tranquiline halls. I know it's a stretch, but I thought it odd that Taravangian is so intent on maintaining the world in a state of chaos, a state that arguably fits with the worldview of the ardentia better than any other group we've been introduced to so far. What if the people discovered that certain tenants of vorinism were wrong? How would that affect the ardentia? Are there some within the ranks that might be willing to go to extraordinary lenghts to prevent a reveal of false vorin teachings from happening? Second is Kabsal. When I originally read the book I assumed that he was merely a ghostblood agent that had infiltrated the ardentia, but I'm starting to wonder if the ghostbloods might actually be an extremist faction within the ardentia itself. First of all, if the ghostbloods wanted Jasnah dead, why send someone from a group that she is hostile toward? An ardent would have a difficult time getting close to Jasnah and we see in the book he is only able to do so through his relationship with Shallan. Seems like an odd choice for an assassin. That leads me to believe that he really is an ardent. Kabsal is also apparently a zealous believer in vorinism. He seems genuinely offended when Jasnah asks him about Urithiru, so I don't believe he is faking his religious belief. Sure, it may be an act to convince Jasnah, but to me he seems genuine in his religious belief. The third trigger that had me considering an ardent faction as a possible candidate for ghostblood/Taravangian involvement came when I was reading the exchange between Adolin and his father's ardent in the temple. Who could spy more easily than ardents? They are privy to details of people's lives that most others are not, and as religious leaders are given a level of trust and respect that would be difficult to obtain otherwise. Furthermore, ardents are in every city in every kingdom, so they have the ability to set up an extensive communications network that would fly under the radar. I'm not saying the entire ardentia is involved, but might there be an extremist faction that is working to establish the Hierocracy again or maybe just protect against what they see as a threat to vorinism?

Please enter me in the drawing! I have signed copies of the mistborn series, but I would love to get my hands on the alloy of law arc!