The Goat

Okay, so this is the last viewpoint character in this story for quite some time. So far we have seen an assassin Tarrito speak to Galen about stealing a book from the Queen's library. Galen stole the book and escaped from Liaf a member of the Queen's guard. That is where Ch. 3 picks up. I don't have any specifics to look for this time. Just give me feedback on the basic stuff: What's cool, what's confusing, what's poorly done, etc. Thanks!

No problem. Just let me know. i can drop back if needed.

I'd like to submit on the 3rd if I can.

It looks like everybody hit most of the big stuff. I have to say I agree with Andy on most everything - especially the Staffen Gjurd abruptness. Anyway, I'll stay away from all that and try to touch on other things. First of all I liked a lot of the characters, just like in the previous chapters. So far I am not having problems with the all the POVs like some of the others are, and I am a big fan of a lot of POV's so I like that you're doing it so well. I really like Staffen, and want to see more of her. Minor details I noticed early on: p. 3 Your spirit was what I loved about you, but why do you cling to this notion to fight?’ Why is love in the past tense? Does that mean he doesn't love her any more? p. 4 He was angry now, has brow darkened. This took me out of the story for a second. I'm not sure I understand what happened here. Did his brow actually darken? If so, why and how? I assumed you meant his expression darkened but were looking for another way to say it. Maybe He furrowed his brow or something. I didn't see any other nit picky things like that in the rest of it. I liked the magic display (real magic) and the way it contrasted with the fake magic at the beginning. I do feel like it was just put in to show that Damiel is a magic user and wondered a bit at the purpose of that scene in general, since it didn't come up again and didn't characterize him that much, and I cant imagine that progressed the plot. Even though I really liked the description and the counter play of the fake magic, I felt the scene wasn't needed and maybe you could have displayed his magical prowess in another way to have more effect. I liked Marnar's scene the best. I think the end scene was strong, I just wish it hadn't taken so long to get to it from the other scenes because I felt it got a bit bogged down in the middle - but maybe that was my whole not understanding what the point of the Damiel scenes were. I think after you put some more motivations in a la Andy's advice it will improve that stuff greatly. Still, I liked all of it overall and look forward to your next submission.

There was a lot to like about this chapter, especially the first scene. In fact, I didn't see anything worthy of a negative remark through pages 1-5 except a typo on p. 4 where you misspelled know. I was interested the whole way through. I liked the banter between Cadmia and Varus as she was testing him about where to find philosophers. I actually liked almost all interactions between Varus and her. It was the parts where Varus was on his own, or inside his own head that I thought a bit problematic. I felt that Varus tended to be overly emotional about a lot of things (within his own head) and in some places it seemed to border on insanity. I assume that was the torc trying to make him angry or something, but here are a few passages I found his psychoticness a bit odd. p.3 It was such an unexpected moment that it softened Varus's heart and he felt some of the warmth that relaxed Murena's stiff posture. Then the same guy on p.6 is thinking this about the same girl: The smile on her face was so smug, he'd have wiped it off any man with his fist. But he kept his hand still, for all that his fingers clenched and the low, soothing voice from the torc urged him to lash out. It seems like he is barely in control of himself and he might lash out at her. Again, this might be the whole torc thing, but if so I think you should put the sentence about the torc urging him in front of his thoughts about beating the smile off her face. Then on p.11 he really does almost strike her, and I didn't see any reference to the torc here. 'Enough! How dare she speak of general Murena in this way?' Varus didn't know he had raised his hand until she shrank back. He slumped away from her, suddenly filled with shame. Then on p. 14 he wants to kill a priest and even thinks about killing the whole crowd of people including women. His breath grew ragged as he fought to suppress the red mist, not to punch this vicious old man with his jagged words and his frail bones... Every shout jabbed at Varus like a spear to his soul. He wanted to punch the woman now too. To trample his abusers in the mud. To give in and show them his strength, turning their taunting to terror. And finally on p. 16 dude is so emotional over a smell that he almost cries. The place smelt somehow of childhood and Varus almost welled up with tears at such pleasure after the chaos of the streets. Anyway, I just wanted to bring this stuff to your attention in case you weren't intentionally trying to make him so emo. Because I see the guy as a beastly soldier, and I just cant see him taking stuff so emotionally, at least not to the extreme where jeers are spears to his soul. Okay onto some smaller stuff: On p.6 beginning the sentence with Round here everyone looked so hostile was strange to me. Maybe because it sounds kind of redneck to my american ear to hear people say round here, and not around here. But it caught my attention enough for me to ask if Varus would talk that way to himself. On p. 7 when Cadmia gets rejected she just brushes it off and goes to the next door. We see her get frustrated later, but I don't think Cadmia would do that. It seems like she would be pissed or bitch to Varus about it or something. At least be slightly frustrated, and then later you could have her built up to the point of snapping. On p. 10 Varus threw coins at Nurya's feet. Why didn't he hand it to her? That seems pretty disrespectful to me. On p. 11 Varus starts looking for this tavern, and I feel like the time reference is off. He is supposed to return in an hour to pick up Cadmia but he has been "stomping the streets" and ended up in another part of town because it is dirty and full of graffiti and stuff. Then he kills some dudes, fights with a priest, contemplates massacring a crowd, and after that it takes him an hour to return. I figured him to be gone about 3 hours. I don't know if that is right, but I thought you might want to reference it when he comes to pick Cadmia up by saying sorry he's so late or something. Then if she didn't even notice, you could have her reply with something talking about how much she enjoyed her new tutor. On p. 13 I don't know why you didn't say anything about the fight. It was just literal blind rage and over. I also thought it strange that a trained soldier wouldn't instinctively draw his sword to fight them, and instead went all beast mode on them. I thought this might be another torc thing, making him into a barbarian, but if it was I didn't catch any of the references to it. p. 14 jeers of appreciation. I don't think you can jeer appreciatively. I think you might need a different word than jeer. During that same scene the priest seemed to make the crowd turn on him very easily, and I don't know why. Did he have magic that could work the crowd like the soothers in mistborn? If it was magic, a reference would be needed. If it wasn't magic, some other explanation would be needed. On p. 17 when he return to cadmia no one seems to notice he is covered in blood. That should be something they noticed, especially since he was very late in returning. Instead Cadmia just smiles and they go home like he had been waiting outside on the doorstep the whole time. I hope that wasn't too much stuff. Like I said all the Cadmia scenes were good, I think that torc references and toning down a little bit of Varus's emotional responses (unless you are wanting to have that as a part of his character) would help.

Thanks for the feedback everyone! As always it gives me plenty to think on. Yankorro, the part about that quote translating to all parts of the writing is epic, and something I'll take to heart.

Sorry for the delay Robinski. I got your email a little after all the others and couldn't get to it till this morning. It's been a long week. I'll try not to harp on things everyone else has said. However I will say that even though you probably had too many characters in such a short span, I had no problem keeping up with them. Prologue: I like the start in the prologue. That first scene with the king at the table sucked me right in. I thought the death scene was done well, especially the last 2 paragraphs when the king is thinking. I noticed quite a bit of passive voice in the work. That is probably something to look out for, especially when they are so frequent and in such close proximity. In some paragraphs, you have it multiple times. When you sprinkle it here in there, when characterizing or something, I didn't see it as a problem at all, but in some cases it was repetitive and that made it much more noticeable to me. Here are some examples (only from p.8): It was bloody. Magithlen was propped against the end wall, diluted blood still pooling around his corpse, eyes vacant. To me, the it was bloody is repetitive. The next sentence shows that there is a pool of blood. I imagined the sentence more like: Diluted blood pooled around Magithlen's corpse, which leaned against the end wall with vacant eyes. He heard more soldiers arriving, but his attention was caught by a mark on the wall. This sentence could become something like: He heard more soldiers arriving, but the mark on the wall held his attention. He was clearly affected by his father’s sudden death, but not overcome. And this one might go like: Though his father's death had clearly affected him, it hadn't overcome him. The motion seemed to bring King Celantorn back to the present, his gaze met Olma’s, but they were interrupted by more guards arriving from the Crown Hall. To me this should be two sentences. The motion seemed to bring King Celantorn back to the present. His gaze met Olma's, but more guards arrived from the Crown Hall, forcing him to break away from his stare. I don't know. Maybe this is a style issue, but it might be something to look into. I agree with andy's comment on the short sentences. This is something I am very guilty of doing myself. Someone, possibly andy, brought it to my attention and I feel my work reads much smoother when the short sentences are more sparse, saving them for the moments with more impact. Chapter 1: I thought the intro was pretty slow- lots of backstory and history that I'm sure is important, but I thought it was pretty info dumpy for those first two grand paragraphs. After the tension filled prologue, I was expecting something more from the beginning of chapter 1. I found that the narration felt slow. I was still interested when I got through the first two paragraphs of chapter 1, but the meatiness of your paragraphs made them seem longer in the reading. It wasn't an uncommon thing for you to have 7,8,9,10 sentence paragraphs. It's okay every now and then, but they were everywhere. For me, at least, breaking most of the big paragraphs up would help a lot. pages14-18 read much easier for me because you did this on those pages. Other than the stuff on Saffen's intro and Marnar and Teimen's conflict I didn't see much else besides the passive voice that got to me in this one. I really like the direction the plot is going, and I am excited to read on!

Okay, this is the second chapter Piercing The Veil. This was originally the first chapter. I went back and added Tarrito's chapter later, and I think the new chapter 1 still feels like an add on. If you missed that first chapter, this is what happened- Tarrito, an assassin, went to a ritual sacrifice in order to receive a message from his contact. The contact was a higher up in a religious order, and the Tarrito killed him after the message was delivered- leaving his body in the middle of the central plaza. Then he went on to meet with another man named Galen, who was going to steal a book from the Library of the Gods which could possibly prove the Queen was a fraud and help the people who oppose the Queen. I'd like feedback on the normal stuff, what's cool, what's confusing, what's boring, especially in regards to Liaf. Are you interested in what he does, do you care about what happens to him? If you lose interest, try to pinpoint where - even if it's the first sentence. And please, don't be afraid to shred it to bits if it needs it. Thanks a lot.

Some little things: p.1 stiff as a column and just as warm company. The just as warm company part seemed awkward to me. Small typos: p.1 They were on good form - i think you meant IN good form and p.6 false sympathy was as BAD as the real thing Some bigger things: I must say, once again, I really like what you've got going on here. This whole Roman world is really coming to life for me. I love how matter-of-factly you talk about fantastical things, like the pacts and the satyr. It makes them seem very much an every day part of the world. I was also glad to see the viewpoint change to Cadmia because last chapter I found myself wanting to know more about her. I also LOVE the religious magical system. The way she has to appease the gods to get them to intervene. However I can see how it might become too easy at times. I wonder if there is a way she can pray to store up power from the gods to keep them with her, or does she always have to make a deal at the moment she needs them. If so that seems a bit convenient. I really do love the concept though I think it's an interesting take that is fun to read about. There was only one thing that fell a bit flat for me, and that was the end. I felt like it should have ended sooner, or maybe kept going a little more to where she talks to Varus and has him go after the satyrs for information. I don't know, I just felt like it ended in the middle of something, and not in a cliff hangery kind of good way. It all seemed to get summed up really fast after the fight, and then it was over. Maybe it was that I didn't really feel the impact of the tragedy that the blow on their families reputation would have if everyone left. After the intensity of what just happened, it seemed pretty pale by comparison. Really good job though, I am excited to read more!

If you still have room id like to submit on the 20th as well.

Great stuff Robinski. A lot to consider. The thing with the alchemists is something I believe I addressed too early. Even though in the poor areas of every city they are very present and basically control that area, I could have left them out in this chapter because they won't become extremely relevant until later. Like someone else already brought up, if Tarrito has such situational awareness, he wouldn't have made that mistake anyway. He would have been paying attention to everything. The reason the alchemists arent scientist is because they are basically gangs of drug dealers, who control the poor parts of the major cities. They call themselves alchemists because they sell potions that are addictive which contain metals that cause hallucinations. These are easily attainable metals but the refining process is a secret held by the alchemist guild. Because they are turning base metals, that are basically worthless, into something extremely valuable that they trade for gold, they call themselves alchemists. But they are not alchemists in a traditional sense and therefore do not look or behave like them. This will become more evident later on, but again I don't think I need that piece of world building in the first chapter, and I didn't handle it well anyway. The other stuff you brought up are all errors that need to be fixed. Especially the freaking dialogue. I struggle with making dialogue not sound too modern. Thanks though. I have a lot to work on this week.

Great feedback Andy! I appreciate it. I need to really look into how to raise the stakes for tarrito, and make him more sympathetic.

Nice feedback. Thanks! Do you know why it's not grabbing you? Maybe I need to raise the stakes for Tarrito in some way. I don't know. If you have an idea what kept it from sucking you in, please share.

Thanks for the good advice. I shot you a PM with some responses to that stuff. The thing about readers having no reason to caring about anything/ anyone is a HUGE point that I need to address. If anyone has any ideas on how I can improve that in this chapter please share!

Yeah. JParker is right about the adjectives. There are multiple places where you use two words or images to describe something where one would do. For example in only the first paragraph: Together they trudged through the vast dry emptiness. I think vast and empty are expressing similar things. You could probably lose on or the other and not lose meaning. They trudged through the vast dry landscape, or through the dry emptiness. Also, you probably don't need the word together because they is implying they are together unless you say otherwise. We don't think they are trudging through two different vast emptinesses that are miles apart. The dirt was marked by tracks of goats and their small brown turds. You don't need to say brown. Turds are generally brown. If they were a strange color like pink then you'd need to mention it, but when you say their small turds I immediately think brown. The door was fixed with a slick and shiny new padlock. Shiny new is enough. You don't need slick, unless it is actually slippery. Anyway, it is generally accepted that less is more, but it's a style thing so do what you want. Like I said before, I actually like your descriptions a lot. I feel like that is the weakest part in my writing, and I like the way you do it. Just look at economizing where you can.

As in the other things of yours I have read, your descriptions are very well done. The little details you describe about the characters and setting really bring them to life and it is something I admire in your work. However I do feel that some of the character motivations are off at times. For example: I thought the kiss between rose and prince seemed a bit forced, but then again maybe I don't know their history enough to judge. I was just thinking that if, to Prince, she is using the boy as a sex slave, why is he attracted to her? If it were me thinking that I'd be disgusted by the woman. I guess maybe he thought she was a freak or something, and she might let him get in on the action? I don't know but it felt off. Probably a foreshadowing issue for me. If I knew their history, it would make more sense. Later when I saw Prince with the prostitute I understood that he might be some kind of sexual deviant and so he was probably trying to take advantage of her some how, but stopped for some reason. One other time I found the motivation strange, was when Rose was at Princes room and she decided to go with those guys anyway. At least that is where I think she is going. I don't understand why she would put herself in danger like that. Is she literally crazy. If these dudes are dangerous, I don't think any sane person would willingly go off on a trip alone with them without something huge making them go. If I felt like she had no choice, it would make more sense. Like maybe this is her only chance to find out about the manticore, or if she needed to see the army of locusts for some reason that couldn't be avoided. The stuff about the locust army sounds pretty interesting and I want to see what happens with that. I'm sure the trip she is going on will be entertaining to read about, but I think it might help to pepper in a little more reason why she has to go. One other little thing: in the same paragraph where Prince kisses her, you have two very strange and similar looking words, lugubrious, and languorous. Maybe look into spacing those out more or changing one. They stood out a lot to me.

Okay, if you already read my first version of chapter 1 please try to read this without comparing it to the previous version if possible. This is only about 30% the same as Ver 1.0. Tarrito has undergone a drastic overhaul to make him more compatible with the story thread I have in mind for him. Please pay special attention to blocking (descriptions between dialogue). I have a lot of dialogue in this chapter, and at the beginning in particular I am afraid my blocking might be confusing. Thanks!

I'd like to submit on the 13th.

I liked Chatarra as well. It had a great feel to it. The tone was very well established and the characters well done. The ending confused me. I know his friend went through the portal. I know he left, he didn't care about the chatarra on the streets. He didn't want other people's scraps. I thought it meant the event had somehow inspired him to stop messing with the chatarra. No longer dealing in that business. Maybe he is going home literally in the Raval where his house is and going to find a new way of life. If he was going to go through the portal to go home, I don't understand why it wouldn't take him. Did he need more chatarra? If so why is he leaving it all behind when he leaves to go home. I'm lost on the end. Anyway - maybe I'm not smart enough to "get it" but I agree with jparker send this out for publication. It's a very solid story. I actually liked diamond as well. Though, not near as much as chatarra. I think the others hit the main points. If you wanted the last line to carry a punch with it, I think sprinkiling in more about Mats seeing annie as perfect, or seeking the perfect, or longing for something. I don't know but something to set it up. I felt like that last line was very out of place, and I only feel that way because I didn't think it was sufficiently foreshadowed. I think it only needs a few tweaks to be a strong story and the ending being the main one in my opinion. With both of these stories though you show your knack for creating sympathetic characters that are interesting to read about.

Oh, one more thing I didn't mention. I liked Liku's storytelling part at the end. I thought it was a nice way to add flavor to the backstory with the humor and everything.

Most everyone said everything that can be said on this one, and I just started reading it last week so I might not be able to offer much help other than a little cheerleading, but I can say I still really like how this one is going so far. I'm enjoying Ichu as a character, but I'm a little bit on yankorro's side with the magic only in a few places this particular chapter though), because I thought you described it so well in the last chapter, that some of the description wasn't needed here. I felt like you only needed to mention it in order for me to visualize what was happening. p.1The thought made his stomach knot as tortouise shoulders his load was one he performed often, useful for chores around the farm. This line of description isn't needed in my opinion, because you already showed us how useful it was in the last chapter, and how often he uses it in this chapter. I know the part where he was talking about his aching joints from the cold was showing that he may have cast the spell incorrectly, but I thought his joints already ached in the cold. I might just be imagining it, i haven't gone back and checked but I thought in the last chapter it mentioned him flexing his fingers and prepping for the morning routine in the cold and talking about his joints aching. Anyway, if that is true that paragraph at the beginning might be a bit inconsistent. Then again I might be totally off bc I didn't check so... Anyway I like your writing. Keep it up!

For a second story ever, you are doing well. I wish my first few attempts looked that good. I really liked the description of the death at the end. I thought you handled that part well. Andyk and Mandamon were very right in the respect of the backstory in the short format. Backstory is always a tricky thing to deal with, especially in SF/F bc there is a lot to get in. You can still keep some of it, but I would watch the big blocks of backstory, especially the parts that are just inside the character's head. If you can pepper that into conversations or spread it out into one/two line thoughts, here and there it would probably serve you better. A couple little things on word usage that I don't think the others mentioned: -Watch out for redundant phrases: p.1: He did and his companions would soon follow behind. There is no need to write behind. Saying that they followed him, already implies that they are behind. p.2 He would once again be with his wife and son again. Choose to use either once again or the again at the end, but not both. -Also watch out for words/phrases like just then, suddenly, abruptly, etc. I counted at least 3 uses of abruptly and I think there might have been a few I missed. In almost every case you can eliminate these words and keep the exact same meaning in your sentence. Reserve these words for when you really need them-- at times where you cannot say what you are trying to say without them. If you do need them, try not to repeat the same word too often. Otherwise you might abruptly pull your reader out of the story a little bit

Please don't shy away from the harsh stuff. This is what I need to hear. Very good points.

Yeah, I undertand, the dialogue issue. I have felt as well, in certain places. I'm having trouble making realistic dialogue with the flavor of the setting I'm going for. It always seems so forced when I put in older sounding words/phrases. Anybody have suggestions for sharpening my ear for that? Maybe I just don't know my characters well enough yet or something. I see what you mean on the thought tags. It's much smoother the second way. Throwing those out now. I didn't realize how freaking many of them I used until you brought it up. They're everywhere!

Hey everybody, this is the first chapter in a fantasy book I'm working on. I'd like feedback on the standard stuff: what's cool, what doesn't work for you, what's unclear; what's boring. Thanks.