18th Shard

Who better to be a king than one with the Herald's own Blade? Passed down through the family. Plus, maybe Gavilar didn't bond with the Honorblade. Dalinar "bonded" with Oathbringer, didn't he? Do you have to bond with every Shardblade and how does this work?

I was looking at known ways Surgebinders use their Surges. Kaladin and Szeth: use the Basic, Full, and Reverse Lashings. Jasnah and Shallan Soulcast. Lift increases/decreases Friction, Grows things, and uses Regrowth. Then I thought, what if all the orders have three lashings: one from Surge 1, one from Surge 2, and bonus Lashing 3 that's only used by their order. The Basic Lashing is the gravity Lashing, the Full Lashing is the Atmospheric pressure, Lift's sliding/climbing is the Friction Lashing, growing seeds is a use of the Growth Lashing, and Soulcasting is the highly diversified Lashing of Transformation. The Reverse Lashing is the Windrunner Order Lashing , and Regrowth is the Edgedancer(?) Order Lashing. Perhaps Lightweaving (making Illusions) is the Lightweaver Order Lashing. This would put the number of Lashings at 20.

 

The Surge Lashings directly affect the Surge (Basic lashing affects gravity, full lashing affects atmospheric pressure, Soulcasting is the Transfromation, Sliding/Climbing directly affects friction, Growing Seeds directly involves growth, etc.). The other lashings are less directly affecting their surges (how is Regrowth directly affecting Growth or Friction? It heals, not grows something, and friction...)

By the way, I love the names synergisers and souleaters. +1 for you

I still think you would be able to store the Allomantic attribute. Yes, they have to be able to store the ability, but they are already a Ferring of that metal (see Conjecture 5). This should give them this ability. As for entropicsscholar's ideas, I think Hemalurgically-powering Allomancy means somehow, you store x amount of time's worth of burning, say, pewter in a spike. This spike can be passed along until it runs out of that amount of time, at which point it reverts to being a useless hunk of metal. Feruchemically-Powered Hemalurgy is not storing something in the spike, it is storing the spike's power (so if it were a Pewter spike that stole Feruchemical gold, storing the ability to store/tap Gold) in a metal mind.

I'd like to restate what Vortaan said. Something should  be attracted to him: angerspren, painspren, etc. but they aren't. As far as we know, most spren can't choose to be invisible. They can't choose in general. Only spren that have bonded with someone have shown any kind of ability to choose whether or not to appear. Szeth should have spren exploding around him with the emotional trauma and pain he feels as he kills, yet he doesn't.

I was thinking, even if you have your whole army a mile away and a couple of scouts with flags to tell you where to point your spears, you could have an army that fights with out having people be killed. 200 guys with fabrial-spears stabbing from a 100 yards away is going to more damage  than 200 spearmen up close. Yes, energy is conserved, but with enough men, you could potentially do a lot of things that would be devastating to another army.

What if you used the fabrial with rubies - the one in spanreeds - and attached one side to a stick in your hand and one to a sword. Repeat with multiple swords, but on the same stick. You then turn them on with the swords by the enemy, swing. Your swords will now attack without a wielder. You could make a giant wall of spears, with no one to kill to knock down the spears (you could still cut the spears, but still!).

 

Any other awesome uses for fabrials?

Szeth doesn't seem to attract bindspren with his lashings, nor any spren at all. There are two ways to explain this: Shinovar doesn't have spren and Szeth is fom there, or ... just as the mists stay away from hemalurgists, the spren are staying away from something of Odiu's, whether it is the Surgebinding, Blade, or the Dark Sphere from Gavilar. Thoughts?

Waves, crested white,

create splashes,

fall down falls,

splashing, create

white-crested waves.

 

Stars, shining,

to darkness fading

-changing winds changing-

fading darkness

to shining stars.

I think there is alot to be said about the reason they use spheres is because they could hold stormlight.

 

Make sense that they are "originally batteries for surgebinders" and with time they lost this utility and begin to be "only" the curency.

On Scadrial, atium (not by chance) is a form of currency mainly due to its value Allomantically. This could be true of spheres, too.

Is it necessarily gems, or is it stone in general? I know there isn't much evidence other than the Shin's dissaproval of 'stonewalkers' and thinking stone is holy. Actually, thinking about it, that could add to the gemhearts theory. They respect stone because it "grows" gems. Hmmm.

I don't know if this has been adressed elsewhere, but has anyone noticed that in the arches at chapter headings, there are the 10 heralds(probably)... and that random guy with a mask? Who is he? I think it either is an evil bad guy we don't know yet (an Unmade) or Hoid. Each chapter it is shown, Hoid appears in. In fact there is only one chapter he's in that the masked figure is not at the start of. And the interlude with double Masked Guy, that is all about three Worldhoppers loooking for Hoid. Thoughts?

Did anyone else notice the

 

Hoser: did Tanavast survive Honor’s splintering?

 

A: Tanavast is dead.  Good question.  However, that is as of the start of the WoK (i.e., not including the prelude at least).

 

Hoser: So he could have survived the splintering…

 

A: He could have survived the splintering.

 

Hoser: …as a mortal…

 

A: Well, he could have survived for a time, but then he could not have then…right.

 

Hoser: …passed away in his sleep…

 

A: Right. (Indicating that Tanavast would not have passed away from old age)

I think this implies he would be immortal (as in, not aging). Does something about Hoid make this ring a bell? Hoid has lived far longer than he should be able to.

I had some ideas about the different kinds of Compounding in http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/4633-compounding-mechanics/.

I don't think it would need to be different. From what Wax thinks of Miles, we can safely assume that Compounders are pretty rare. Even if you could figure it out, wuold there be any way or reason for you to tell others? When you burn a metal, it is apparently pretty obvious there are other power sources you could burn (from Vin's point of view). However, storing an attribute probably doesn't have a big obvious, "You can store Speed now...and now..and now.."You would have to be conciously aware that you could store your Allomancy, and have to be a twinborn type that is already a rare occurence.

I am going to agree with Darnam. If Compounding for Feruchemy only requires one to be a Misting and Ferring of one metal, why wouldn't it be the same for Allomantic Compounding?

Hey, this is my first post, but I’ve hung around the forums for a while. I thought for a while about how other forms of Compounding -other ones than Allomantically powering Feruchemy- and I came up with a few ideas that made a lot of sense to me - I also created it, so it might sound completely ludicrous to someone else - and I decided to make this theory about them. I apologize for the length of this post in advance.

    So I worked off of 5 basic conjectures. I will explain them more fully and their implications later, but here they are:

1. Each Metallic Art has specific benefits and disadvantages to using it.

2. Compounding doesn’t change the output of the magic, only the form in which it comes.

3. Compounding gains Both the disadvantages and the benefits of the transit magic system.

4. Compounding is done by beginning one magic system, then, before completing it, beginning a second system, then utilizing the Investiture.

5. Both magic systems must be able to be used by the initiator and the utilizer of the power (who are the same person until you add Hemalurgy in to it).

First: Each Metallic Art has specific benefits and disadvantages to using it. This is kind of obvious, but is important later on, so I thought I’d point out the specific qualities that distinguish them.

    Allomancy - Benefits: Allomancy is end-positive. You gain power in the process.

              - Disadvantages: Allomancy consumes the metal uses.

    Feruchemy - Benefits: Feruchemy allows you to store an attribute until you need it. You can also tap it at a much higher rate than you stored it.

              - Disadvantages: You can only tap as much as you store.

    Hemalurgy - Benefits: Hemalurgy can steal attributes, or in other words, grant something to you that you didn’t have originally.

             - Disadvantages: Being end-negative, Hemalurgy has a lot of these. You have to spike someone; you have to stab yourself; you lose power due to Hemalurgic decay; you have to know the bind points or its useless.

 

Second: Compounding does not change the power output, only the form. In other words, if you begin with Feruchemy, you will end with Feruchemical power, though it might be in a different form (Allomantic, Hemalurgic). This is basically saying, “If you store Speed and burn  your metalmind, you’re still going to be getting Speed out of it, not Steelpushing. However, it will be released in a burst of power, as you are working with Allomancy.”

 

Third: Compounding gains Both the disadvantages and the benefits of the transit magic system. Transit here refers to the second one you do, the one you are compounding with. This explains why you would Compound. Allomantically powering Feruchemy (the kind in Alloy of Law) gains the benefit of Allomancy (a boost in power) and its disadvantage (the metalmind is consumed in the process). The reverse, Feruchemically powering Allomancy, would come out in Allomantic powers, but you would be able to store it and then tap it much faster than normal, so you would be able to boost your Allomancy without duralumin.

 

Fourth: Compounding is done by beginning one magic system, then, before completing it, beginning a second system, then utilizing the Investiture. So, in Alloy of Law compounding, they begin Feruchemy, storing an attribute, but before “completing” it by tapping the power, they begin Allomancy by burning the metalmind, then utilize the power automatically because it is Allomancy. Feruchemically powering Allomancy would be begun by Allomantically burning a metal, and then storing the power in a metalmind. They could then tap it to utilize the stored coppercloud or whatever.

Fifth and Finally: Both magic systems must be able to be used by the initiator and the utilizer of the power (who are the same person until you add Hemalurgy in to it). So the Compounders in Alloy of Law must be both a misting and a ferring in their metal. The same is true for Feruchemically powering Allomancy.

 

So here are the six kinds of Compounding and how they should work according to the above ideas.

1. Allomantically powering Feruchemy -> Store attribute, burn metalmind, gain powers!

    - Gains Benefits of Extra Investiture

    - Also consumes metalmind

    - Must be a Twinborn for the same metal.

2. Feruchemically powering Allomancy -> Burn metal, somehow store power in a metalmind, tap to use.

    - You can tap without the need to burn a metal. You can also tap it at an increased rate, so you don’t need duralumin.

    - However, you do have to burn all this metal sometime. You don’t get free power.

    - Must be Twinborn for the same metal

3. Allomantically powering Hemalurgy -> Spike someone, burn spike, gain power!

    - Major Boost in Hemalurgic quality stolen

    - Consumes Spike so you can’t have the ability forever, just until it runs out. Now you have to go spike someone else.

    - Must be Misting of metal Spike is made of

4. Feruchemically powering Hemalurgy -> Spike someone, store power from spike, tap from metalmind to use.

    - You can tap it without the need to have a spike in yourself. (I’m not sure if you have to stab the spike in yourself and gain the power first, or if you can store it from the spike itself.)

    - You might (IDK) be able to tap without running out, but you might only have a limited amount of power in a Spike you can store. If you do have to stab yourself, then if the spike is in  somewhere vital, removing or even possibly by storing away the energy might kill you (You have a big hole stabbed in you by a chunk of metal without Shardic power to keep you alive).

    - You have to be a ferring of the spike metal.

5. Hemalurgically powering Feruchemy -> Store attribute in metalmind, stab someone with your metalmind (you might want to use a pointy one) and they can tap it (?) for the attribute.

    - Someone else can use the attribute you stored. So your good Bloodmaker buddy is slowly dying, and you (a Bloodmaker) store some health by being miserable for a while, stab him with the metalmind, and then he taps it, healing from what seemed certain death.

    - You need to both be the same kind of Ferring.

    - You don’t get anything out of the time you spent weak or sick or blind.You also have to know bind points for this, which are probably pretty obscure.

6. Hemalurgically powering Allomancy -> You burn a metal, somehow storing it in a spike, then give it to someone else, who then gets the Allomantic power for however long you burnt the metal.

    - Someone else can not burn metal and have a massive amount of power in one spike.

    - You have to spike people, know bindpoints, lose power, etc.

    - I think you both have to be the same Misting.