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In Shallan's new chapters we've noticed several mentions of the patterns on the walls of Urithiru. Now, this may just be a coincidence due to her greater aesthetic refinement, but I think there is more to it than that. We know that Lightweaving involves "Light, Sound, and other waveforms." To me, the patterns could very well be some of these other "waveforms." Thus, the majority of the information the Radiants had gathered is encoded in the walls, waiting to be unlocked by an appropriately aware Lightweaver. This is part of Urithiru's protection, since even if an enemy gets inside, they can't get at any of the Radiant's information since they aren't bonded with a Cryptic and don't have the surges to interpret it. Let me know if you have any other ideas as to why so much time has been spent expositing the walls.

Okay, so after reading the letter at the end of the book we know that Grandpa Smedry survived by reaching out for his talent. That was a bit surprising, since we have never seen his talent operate in quite that manner; however, there is a talent that seems very likely to bring someone back from the dead, and that is Attica's talent. He has a talent for losing things and then finding them again later when he needs them! He lost his soul and Alcatraz got it back. Now he lost his life, the only question is, how and when will he get it back?

What time is this meeting going to take place?

Sorry, something came up and I won't be able to make it...I'll try for next month!

Thanks for the info, see you there!!!

Where does this meeting take place, and at what time?

Wow, I didn't know this was going on! I will try to be there for the May meeting.

So, first, for those who are not aware of the hidden easter egg in the map of Roshar, this will bring you up to speed http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/6912-hidden-things-in-map-of-roshar/page-36 Next, for a few quotes from WoK/WoR: "Above the stiff high collars, where the creatures' heads should be, each had a large, floating symbol of twisted design full of impossible angles and geometries." -WoK, p. 467 "Each had a different symbol, twisted and unfamiliar to her, hanging above a neckless torso" -WoK, p. 642 "Those not heads had unreal angles, surfaces that melded in weird, impossible ways." -WoK, p. 643 "...it had a complex pattern with a huanting symmetry." -WoR, p. 66 "The pattern seemed impossible to capture. Its complex repetitions twisted down into infinity...She drew it spiraling out of a center point, then re-created each branch off the center, which had its own swirl of tiny lines. It was like a maze designed to drive its captive insane." -WoR, p. 67 "This pattern was different from the symbolheads in her drawings, but it was also somehow the same. A flattened-out version, without torso or limbs. It was an abstraction of one of them, just as a circle with a few lines in it could represent a human's face on the page." -WoR, p. 67 "At the moment, he had lifted himself up off the surface of the deck, forming a ball of swirling blackness-infinite lines that twisted in ways she could never have captured on the flat page." -WoR, p. 104 "The complex pattern of his head, with its sharp lines and impossible geometries..." -WoR, p. 118 " 'Do you have a name? I've called you Pattern, but it's more of a description.' 'Name is numbers,' Pattern said. 'Many numbers. Hard to say. Pattern...Pattern is fine.' " -WoR, p. 216 I think this is enough quotes to the effect that Pattern's essence, as we may describe it, would be that of a fractal. Thus his name is a set of number, Many, or infinite numbers, that describe his specific fractal. That fractal appears to be in more than three dimensions, thus leading to the impossible geometries that Shallan observes. This leads to my final conclusion, which is that the multidimensional fractals of the cryptics are directly related to the multidimensional fractal that describes Roshar (at least, the fractal from which the two dimensional projection of a three dimensional slice is the pattern for the map of Roshar). Thus, pattern is easily able to help Shallan figure out the map of the Shattered Plains, not just because he is good at spotting patterns, but also because it is part of his very nature. This is also why Pattern is able to help her with Illumination, with her providing the pattern, and then he guides the Stormlight iteratively to match the pattern, easily dealing with the projection from two to three dimensions by correcting the essentially chaotic expansion of the light into order based on Shallan's drawing and Memory. I don't know that I have expressed this in the best way, but it is a start at least for some discussion.

Personally, i am not very interested in Eshonai's backstory as I felt we already got a good feel for it in Words of Radiance, so I don't think it would provide an entire book's worth of flashbacks. In her place I think Navani would be a lot more interesting. Taravangian's past would also be interesting but I don't feel it would take an entire book, rather like Eshonai's. I'm not sure on Taln, as having chapter after chapter on torture and torment in Damnation would be excruciatingly tedious, but if something more exciting were going on I could enjoy it. I think instead of just Shallash, it should be a flashback book for the heralds in general (with a possible exception for Taln, as he wasn't exactly with the rest of them). I also don't have a strong attachment to Dalinar's past, other than figuring out what it was like to visit the Nightwatcher, and I don't feel that justifies an entire book of flashbacks. So after that explanation, my list would be as follows: 3 - Szeth 4 - Adolin and/or Renarin 5 - Jasnah 6 - Lift 7 - Navani 8 - Taln and/or Dalinar 9 - Zahel 10 - The Heralds

Another couple of points of interest that I noticed: First, when Kaladin is fighting the chasmfiend, Shallan uses lightweaving to distract the chasmfiend from attacking the real Kaladin. Yet we learned earlier in the novel that Shallan is dependent on having made a drawing recently in order to be able too effectively lightweave, which she did as even Kaladin noted that the illusion appeared as his double. Thus, Shallan must have drawn Kaladin at some point when they were together in the chasms. Second, I don't mean this to be inappropriate in any way, but the act of Shallan giving Kaladin a sword, especially her sword, has considerable literary significance. Swords are the ultimate phallic symbol, and so by Shallan giving Kaladin a sword she was essentially giving him permission to be a man with respect to her, to be her protector. She also later is the one to carve the cave (a common yonic symbol) they used for shelter, a home if you will, and she willing brought him into the 'home' she had made. I recall nothing of similar significance happening with regards to Adolin. Finally, the experience Kaladin and Shallan had in the highstorm was one in which they walked to edge of infinity and looked out, seeing fully displayed their mortality. You don't go through an experience like that and walk away without a profound (not essentially positive, though) relationship with the other individual. P.S. Seloun, I think we (those of us who adhere to said theory) would all accept you as the Shalladin theory leader!

I do note that you still have listed "Shallarin" as one of your espoused theories. Rather incongruous, don't you think?

It should be noted that there is a difference between being the cause of a sibling's death (not directed) and killing a sibling (directed). The former is much easier to get over, as the killing wasn't directed to the sibling, although it would still be very difficult. The latter is much more in the insurmountable category.

Now I will add my two cents worth. I am in the Kaladin-Shallan camp, and I argue in their favor because I feel that being able to actually understand each other is the most critical to the growth of a relationship, and at this point Adolin hasn't had the proper experiences in life to be able to really understand Shallan. He could have these experiences, but it seems unlikely, especially as I am very suspicious of the way he ended up killing Sadeas. It needed to happen, but he didn't seem to do it in a very "Journey before destination sort of way". Kaladin has had the experience necessary to understand Shallan. Broken souls go together, Shallan doesn't need a whole souled Adolin or vice versa, as that is simply having a crutch, and relationships where one is the crutch aren't healthy. I think it will be done tastefully, though, in the end, and we don't need to worry about endless romantic driveling.

There is a lot of discussion on this topic, so let's have a poll and see what we get!

Everyone seems to assume that Renarin charging was incompetent, but if he had already spoken an ideal, he may have had some understanding of Surgebinding and so he was moving forward to use his surgebinding to help defeat the chasmfiend. However, of course he would have misgivings of revealing his magic, and so when his father ordered him back he went.

Hello, I just noticed in the comments for the chapter release yesterday that several individuals proposed that spren such as Syl eventually become "the soul" for lack of a better word of their Radiant's shard blade. I am opening this topic for discussion about this theory. I personally disagree with the theory. One argument against the theory comes from Dalinar's vision in chapter three of WoR. I am of the opinion that the knight is conversing with his/her spren when seen speaking with nobody, and therefore it would follow that the knight still had a spren while possessing a shardblade and shardplate. The second point I would make is from the abandoning of the Plate and Blades at Feverstone Keep. Under the assumption that the spren become the Blades somehow, then A) the assumed process involves the spren, but after the process is complete the spren is no longer essential, otherwise the Blades would have ceased to function, as it is assumed that spren died when the Nahel bonds were broken this also opens the question of what happens when a Knight Radiant dies, as their plate and blade would remain. If death broke the Nahel bond, the spren would then die, and there should therefore be many more Plate and Blade combinations. If the Plate and Blade were passed down, then new Knight's Radiant wouldn't have to have their spren turn into Blades/Plate. So overall, it seems to be a very unlikely event that a bonded spren becomes a Shardblade.

First, I am assuming both shardblades and heralds are, for lack of a better word, stored on Braize/Damnation between instances in which they are needed. Next, we know from the prelude that at least some section of Braize is hot, as Kalak was very frightened of the smoke and fire. So, it is assumed that the shardblades and heralds would be hot if they came directly from there. We know that it takes for a shardblade 10 heartbeats to summon it, which likely has something to do with travel time, with a faster heart rate meaning greater need and thus greater individual effort exerted on the summoning, thus shortening the travel time. If the travel source takes as energy a combination of the energy of the summoner and a degree of energy of the object itself, the energy taken from the object would cool the object, hence it would be cold on arrival. If the travel is instantaneous, then perhaps as the shardblade grows cold there it is a humid place and water condenses on it. So there are my rambling thoughts.

Another note is that after reviewing some of the old FTL theory linked by Kurkistan, it appears that the compounding of steel and f-steel wasn't discussed. Since in other cases compounding leads to a significant increase in output (energy source: potentially the thermodynamic losses of some other allomantic interactions), the question is if burning steel that you have stored speed in only would let you move very quickly, or if you could somehow transmit said speed into an object you are pushing. Then, if the latter is true, could you use the feruchemically stored speed to overcome the light barrier when a raw push could not (at least according to the understanding of special relativity on our planet_.

Hello, I am fairly new to the forums and this is my first topic. I don't know if it has been discussed before, but I wanted to propose that we have already seen FTL travel in the cosmere on Sel. I propose the the transportation induced by the use of the Aon Tia produces FTL travel, first because there is no sound wave upon arrival, second because you can end up inside of a wall if you are not careful. I also would love to hear theories about FTL travel on Scadrial here, and any other cosmere world for that matter.

Are you implying that they took leadership and misled all of the knights? Dalinar's vision doesn't suggest dissonance between the knights that would be expected if evil knights were fighting good knights. Also a black order seems unlikely in a magic system where the power you have is based on your actions, so only the truly honorable would gain the magic to become a knight radiant.

Given the evidence that we have, I would first assume that the Radiants ran into something that suggested that the desolations were not over, and from that concluded that the Heralds had betrayed humanity. This then led to a considerable amount of discussion as to why the Heralds abandoned humanity, with the final conclusion being that humanity was no longer worth saving or protecting , that they had fallen too far and deserved to be destroyed. This would be an easy conclusion to come to when the knights lived lives of honor that required personal sacrifice for the greater good, and such a life is only a few steps removed from pride. Perhaps the knights had gotten too caught up in their own world and had thus lost unity with the rest of humanity. At any rate, once they made this conclusion they abandoned their shards, and felt even more justified in their decision in seeing how humanity immediately began to use the shards to destroy. Unite them is therefore honor's plea, as only if humanity are united, including the knights radiant, will they be able to have the strength they need to withstand the desolations.

If I remember properly, the Heralds in the prelude mentioned that there were knight's radiant at that time, and under the assumption that Nohadon lived after that time period (which I am pretty sure is true), then Nohadon did not invent the Radiant's oaths. Perhaps he helped reorganize the knights radiant, but I think they have been around a lot longer than he was (hence his journey to Urithiru).