Sasukerinnegan

I get the ending of the first five books now. Brandons doing something innovative again. The bad guys win after five books. I agree with the authors three steps theory. The everstorm first, the true desolation and the night of sorrows. And the rattles make sense now. See, the night of sorrows refer to the setting of the sun in Shadesmar when probably the Voidspren are dominant. Thats why the guy in quote 1 is angry.He dies early and is unable to stop the setting of the sun in Shadesmar. Again some other quotes make sense now. Someone is given the choice of killing a helpless person (or perhaps literally a baby) to delay the onset of of the Niggt of Sorrows. Im guessing thia is Kaladin. But Kaladin is honourable, so he spares the child or the helpless man. This is what it means - So the night will reign for the choice of honour is life. So Kaladin causes the Night of Sorrows. Combine this with Nr Ts predictions, he says one of the Parshendi will form a bridge and that this one has to be destroyed. I'm guessing Kaladin doesnt kill this child or man. The rest is describing their deaths in the Night of Sorrows. Many people die, they all lose their lives in the Night of Sorrows and the Parshendi get their revenge. They defeat the humans and occupy their lands and homes. I'm guessing a few people - Renarin, Taravangian, some of the Heralds retreat and decide to escape to fight a future battle . This is what books 6 - 10 are about, reclaiming the world from the Night of Sorrows and the Voidbringers.

spam bots in the stormlight archive......... fight, brave Heralds.... i mean mods.......

The question I want to ask is the above: Which non Rosharan, not including Zahel/Vasher or Nightblood or anyone already there, would you like to see on Roshar? Dead characters permitted as well, though I'd prefer live ones. I'll start - Marsh....... I felt that he was seen too little in Mistborn and his character development was insufficient....... his take on immortality would be fascinating vis-a-vis the Heralds or Vasher....... besides I feel he was way too underrepresented in the Mistborn series...... his only contribution was to tear Vin earrings away... +

The answer is simple. The heralds violate the First Ideal by their very existence. Life before death - The heralds live even after death....... They can't really die. Journey before destination - they were created for the ultimate destruction of Odium presumably they were created out of necessity....... I don't think they existed in pre desolation Roshar...... They are the pillars of the oath pact ....... Their presence on Roshar causes the desolations in the first place....... To them destination is everything...... They were given the honor blades so that the ideals do not prove to be a hindrance to their work. Strength before weakness - again not true for the heralds. The extreme torture of the Heralds causes them to return from Damnation (Braize??) and reignite the desolation even after they are expected to lead the armies of Roshar...... So u could say, strength after weakness Also remember one of the death chants...... The death is my life, the journey has ended, the strength is my weakness....... I think it's referring to one of the Heralds maybe Taln describing the moment when he transfers his "herald ness" and his powers to pseudo 'Taln'........... Remember what the mad man says ........ The Gift. Not his. Never his Now his.......... I believe he means Taln's Gift or "heraldness" which was never intended to be mine was forced upon me by Taln............ Think I'm going off topic..... Sorry

That's not what their Ideal says. I will protect even those I hate, SO LONG AS IT IS RIGHT. It's the second phrase I have trouble with.

I've been thinking about this for some time now. Has anyone noticed, Gavilar is directly or indirectly related to nearly all of the factions interested in the Voidbringers? To the ghostbloods, they are the ones whom Gavilar suspected of ordering his assassination. The ghostbloods i.e Mraize atleast believes that Gavilar was harbouring secrets of an extraordinary nature. He believes Thaidakar to be behind his assassination. The Diagram was practically inspired by Gavilar's visions. It is Gavilar's visions which caused Taravangian to visit the Nightwatcher. If you think about it, it was odd for Gavilar to tell Taravangian about the visions to a mere ruler of a city, while keeping them secret from his own family. Did Gavilar know about Taravangian's presumable hidden influence over those who would later become part of the Diagram? The Sons of Honor presumably considered Gavilar one of its leaders from what we know of Amaram's viewpoints. But dig a little deeper, Gavilar suspects Restares to have ordered his assassination who is presumably the leader of the Sons of Honor. Also he wants to restore the Radiants which doesn't really seem to be one of the concerns of the Sons of Honor. Gavilar invited Nalan, leader of the Skybreakers and another Herald, to his peace treaty. Its possible that he didn't know who they were, but evidently the Skybreakers considered the Sons of Honor enough of a threat to attempt to murder his minion Amaram. Also note, Nalan could have stopped his assassination if he wanted to, but he didn't attempt it. Gavilar was fascinated by the Parshendi and their culture and didn't expect them to assassinate him. Something odd here, perhaps? He acquired a sphere with a different Light from the normal Stormlight. Voidlight, perhaps? Where from? The Stormfather first chose Gavilar for his visions, why? Some reason, perhaps? Gavilar's assassination is to be presented from a diff standpoint in each of the first five Stormlight Archive books. He has to be significant, therefore in the story.

Hi, I wanted to look critically at the various moral standpoints and the fallacies of the various factions of Roshar. Please understand that this is in no way a criticism of Brandon himself or WoR. Lets start with the Windrunners. The Windrunners and the Skybreakers are the ones whose ideology fascinates me the most since they seem to be almost diametrically opposite. The Windrunner's ideology depends entirely on an undefined principle of right and wrong. When Kaladin thinks about breaking the law and getting out of prison, Syl replies that she isn't a highspren and that being RIGHT is more imp than following the dictates of the law. The problem with the logic is that RIGHTness isn't a defined thing and it's rather a personal thing. Kaladin himself points out the fallacies of this belief when he encounters Szeth, that RIGHTness could well depend upon the belief of Szeth and the possible Honor spren he is bonded to. The Skybreakers on the other hand pursue law as the FINAL authority on right and wrong. When Nalan's minion thinks himself above the law, Nalan replies that the law is the only sure thing in this world and that he should subject himself to its dictates. For most people, the law is at best a reflection of morality, but for Nalan and the Skybreakers, the law is morality.As Shallan says in WoK, you can be immoral while following the law and viceversa. The problem with this belief is that it is geographical, situational and such a right and wrong depend entirely on where you are. I can illustrate the fallacy in both these beliefs by giving an example. Drinking alcohol is legal in the US while it is illegal in, say, Saudi Arabia. For the Skybreakers therefore, Drinking alcohol is therefore immoral in Saudi Arabia while it is moral in the US. The obvious ridiculousness of such a standpoint does not occur to them. The Windrunners would have a even more ridiculous moral standpoint - some Windrunners would call drinking alcohol moral and protect those who consume alcohol from the law in Saudi Arabia while, others i.e those who consider it "immoral" would attempt to "protect" them from their "worse" impulses. The problem with the Windrunner principle is that most modern nations depend more on the Skybreaker principle. If every man started pursuing their own RIGHTS and wrong, it would be nigh impossible to administer a modern nation. Based on a vague sense of right and wrong,you could justify everything from terrorism to war. The Edgedancers remember those who have been forgotten. An admirable principle, though as Nalan rightly pointed out, they would have been focused on issues of little importance while ignoring far bigger problems. Mraize and Iyathil, believe in the principle of the hunter and quarry. We've heard it before - it's a dog eat dog world out there, One man's profit is another man's loss. The problem is it just isn't true - if it were, progress could only occur on the destruction of another - therefore absolute progress would be non existent. The Sons of Honor are utterly selfish, willing to bring a Desolation just to restore the Vorin church. They are reprehensible. Taravangian's beliefs are the one with which atleast I have a little sympathy, not much but atleast a little. The positive about his belief is that he acknowledges the hypocrisies inherent in his beliefs unlike all of the above. He doesn't expect or even desire salvation in any sense or even personal profit but just wants to save the people. As Hoid remarked, if it were another place, another time I might have denounced him with spit and bile, but considering the circumstances he is atleast partially justified. What do you people think?

Medicine is far too advanced in the Stormlight Archive and utterly out of sync with the era Roshar is presently in. Roshar is yet to discover gunpowder, yet to start the industrial era but has near 20th century medicinal capacities in Earth terms. See this excerpt Epilepsies certainly weren't this well diagnosed in the 19th century nor were there specific treatments even semi effective folk treatments. Then again Kaladin asks whether the epilepsy is idiopathic or symptomatic. The question itself is wrong. Idiopathic means of unknown cause whereas symptomatic does not refer to the cause at all, it just means if the patient exhibits any symptoms of the disorder. At the scientific level that Roshar is in (I assume it to be late 19th century in medical terms), ALL disorders would be idiopathic since causes and specific pathology of most ailments weren't known (unless the cause was obvious, like trauma to the head etc) and therefore the term would be redundant. Myoclonic disorders were well described only in the late 19th century and there was certainly no treatment at the time. Even accounting for Carl's superb article http://www.tor.com/blogs/2013/03/the-spren-theory-of-disease-unexpected-science-in-the-way-of-kings, the medical science is still far too advanced. It was well into the 20th century before use of antiseptic became common practice in all nations. Then comes logarithms. Taravangian uses logarithms to describe his IQ condition. Logarithms were discovered in the 1600's and certainly at the time it was never used in medical practice. Use of statistics became common much later towards the mid 19th century. One of the reasons Gregor Johann Mendel, commonly considered the father of genetics, was ridiculed was because he applied mathematical probability to describe genetics in the 18th century. It was one of the reasons why his work was ignored for the better part of a century and he never used something as complicated as logarithms. The reason I mention this is because it seems to be there is a huge disconnect when it comes to describing Rosharan development in Earth terms. Some things like medicine and mathematics are far too advanced for Roshar while development of military weaponry seems to be far too little. There are no descriptions of gunpowder use or even crossbows for that matter while medical progress is of the kind we achieved only in early 20th century. Even politically speaking, Roshar is far too advanced. Lirin faces up to Roshone on the strength of the justice system then existent. It would be near impossible for the disadvantaged class to get justice from the nobility even in 19th century.

TomR seems to be the winner according to me. I have given the neccesary upvotes

I've said it before, that Nohadon is a sliver of the Almighty and now I'm convinced he is the Stormfather.Why? 1. The Stormfather isn't a Herald. 2. The Stormfather is a Sliver of the Almighty. 3. The ideals of the Knights Radiant were based upon Nohadon's book. 4. The surgebinders before Nohadon weren't bound by the ideals. How did Alakavish bring them to war? Bound as he is by his ideals, even if he is not a Windrunner, it would be exceedingly difficult to wage war and not break even one of the ideals. When Kaladin breaks even one of his Ideals, this is the result. 5. We have WoB that all slivers are humans (or atleast sentient beings), who have temporarily held the power of a Shard. 6. Somebody imposed Nohadon's ideals and imposed them upon the spren. The obvious answer would be Nohadon himself. 7. The Stormfather does not speak during Nohadon's vision. What do you guys think???

Jasnah isn't dead, you guys and that's certain....... Brandon once mentioned that he wanted to have a philosophical discussion between Dalinar and Jasnah on what the death of the Almighty meant....... there's no way he'd choose to skip that wonderful philosophical discussion....... Also while Brandon kills off more main characters than Martin, he always gives them SIGNIFICANT deaths...... so don't worry

Post your imaginary epigraphs which you think should have been in the book....... make them as imaginative and eerie as you can. I'll start..... " Consumed by madness, Betrayed by his comrades, orphaned by the Almighty, the Bearer of all Agonies has returned to Roshar. Accompanied by the immortal liar, he rushes to the battlefield, the final hope of a dying world." - Dated Vevanev, 1173, 130 seconds pre-death. Seemingly refers to a Herald. Subject: an illiterate beggar " I walk with the songs of the dead in my ears, the Blade I wield weighing upon my soul. I walk these broken lands, a Herald of death, the storm not seeming to end." -Dated Vevahach, 1173, 12 seconds pre-death. Subject: A convicted murderer.

Now that WoR is just 4 days away, i think its a good time to show our Honour to our lord Odium by making some crazy and wacko predictions. The rules are: 1. Each person must make 10 predictions 2. They must not be overly generic 3. Each person may make only one post relating to their predictions 4. Whosoever gets the max no of predictions right (according to u) after reading Words of Radiance, must get five upvotes from u on any of their posts 5. Predictions must not be based on already released excerpts 6. You are free to speculate based on the Glimpses released by Tor I'll begin........... Here are my predictions for WoR 1. Kalasnah is definitely going to be a thing 2. Adolin does not become a Radiant in WoR 3. Sadeas does not die in WoR 4. Szeth defeats Kaladin but is intercepted by Taln who defeats him 5. Renarin does not die in WoR 6. The Parshendi "gods" turn out to be the Voidspren. 7. Elhokar dies 8. Shen betrays the Alethi but saves Bridge 4's lives 9. Kaladin learns to read and reads Jasnah's journals to learn more about Windrunning 10. The Parshendi release their gods accidentally who then take control of them. Eshonai is the one of the few who escapes because her Shardplate protects her.

LOL....

Why not both?? Like the Reshi "king" for instance!!!

I've got more unreliable evidence to Renarin's feminity. This could be the reason why no one,including Adolin, seems to think Renarin is female. Now we know that Dalinar's curse is to forget completely about his wife. Maybe Dalinar's boon is also something related to memory, albeit other people's memory (including his own, maybe?). It's possible that he asked for the Nightwatcher to make everyone forget that Renarin was a girl, so that he (she?) wouldn't have to face any discrimination on this basis.

@The Count: I certainly didn't mean Renarin had to be female for there to be Kaladin x Renarin ships......... Sorry if I gave off such a impression @ Kaladin Kal: Thnxs man

I'm getting highly suspicious that Renarin is.... actually... a woman. I admit the evidence is very flimsy...... but, my Voidbinding abilities and Peter's hints, seem to indicate that Renarin is almost certainly female. Renarin READ, you guys...... he (she?) actually read the writing on the wall.(pun intended) Also, more evidence is indicated from Peter's post. Follow the link and it leads to a forum containing some pretty weird predictions........ but the only prediction regarding Renarin is the following Well, i doubt Renarin is the daughter of Sylphrena and Odium. But couldn't he (she?) be a woman. In the context, it's not entirely impossible. Renarin is living in a highly patriarchal society AND is additionally epileptic and prone to fits. It's possible that Dalinar and Shshsh having realised that a girl's prospects in such a society, decided therefore to raise him (her?) as a boy. Now comes the crux of my reasoning........ Why does Dalinar never refer to Renarin as a woman, even from his viewpoints????...... The answer is that Dalinar has FORGOTTEN entirely about it, as a result of the Nightwatcher's curse..... Now, you might ask, what about Adolin, then?...... I'll admit I have no good answer to that. One thing in favour of Renarin being female is that it does have historical precedent, even in our own history. One Egyptian princess, i forget her name, is well known for pretending to be male and ruling Egypt as a king. So, what do you think? Who's going to be the first one to launch the inevitable Kaladin x Renarin ships???

I was really interested to see that such calculations are actually made by you guys.......... it's remarkable...... but on the other hand, I have a doubt. In HoA Vin uses Preservation's power to spin the world so that they don't get fried by the heat. I thought this should be wrong since if such a sudden rotation occurred then all the people (also plants, animals, even objects) should have been ejected into space by sheer centrifugal force. If my math isn't wrong, centrifugal force =mass x (angular acceleration)square x radius. The sudden spin would have a sharp rise in angular acceleration. Now u cud argue that Preservation's power could have compensated for the force...... but at the time Vin was described as being too naive to use it properly. Could someone explain this to me?

My up votes to whoever declaes it up first Emerald, emerald on the soul cast wall, who is the greatest voidbinder of us all?

If this is so, the Shards should have gained consciousness as a result of being held by humans for thousands of years.....

Aren't they trying to prevent the return of their gods? The spren inside the Chasmfiends already exist. And in the Eshonai Reading, they Parshendi fled their gods - coming to where the Chasmfiends were : Quote Sorry I've not been clear about my theory. The Chasmspren are related to the Voidspren who are the actual Parshendi gods. Something like how Syl is related to the wind spren but isn't actually a windspren herself. Also see the second part of my argument. If Eshonai saw the spren animating the thunderclast, she would consider it a "god"

This is the question I am most interested in myself. Brandon has said that there was some force/group opposing Adonalsium. I think Adonalsium was actually sentient independent of any human consciousness. The force/ group objected to an essentially non human entity ruling over them. So in an attempt to "democratise" the ruling power, they splintered Adonalsium, forced each of the Shard to have an intent and made it essential for each Shard to have a human consciousness. But the splinters were created later or were not subject to this group's efforts and so do not need a human consciousness

I think the problem lies in the fact that there is a lot of unbound power of creation. I have a theory about Investiture. Therefore according to my theory, the spiritual Investiture which was splintered has not yet gained sentience in Sel. Therefore while this spiritual Investiture continues to control a lot of the power of Creation, it does not actually do anything. So this power of creation remains uncontrolled and freely flows through the cognitive realm in Sel, causing problems for Worldhoppers.

I am nearly sure that the Parshendi gods are the Void spren, not the Voidbringers themselves. Binding these Void Spren gives them the power of Voidbinding which in turn may also corrupt them. The Alethi think that the Parshendi gods are the Chasmfiends. This is because of a simple misunderstanding: they worship the spren inside the Chasmfiend, not the Chasmfiend themselves. Also I believe that the voidspren are similar/related/corrupted versions of the spren inside the Chasmfiend. If Eshonai had encountered the voidspren which formed the thunderclast in Dalinar's vision, she would definitely have considered it to be one of the "Parshendi gods". I believe these spren are Odium's lieutenants something like what perhaps the Dawnsingers were to the Almighty. Darkness believes that the return of Radiants would also cause the return of Voidbringers to the world. Eshonai might believe the same thing. Maybe that is what Gavilar told her i.e he would return the Radiants to the world.