Fifth

Thanks for renaming, apologies for potential spoilers, its been...well years since my last post I didn't realise it was visible anywhere outside of the forum it was posted to. unfortunately i was out of cell range all weekend for a camping trip, hopefully no one was spoiled.

just going over pages I marked for closer inspection after finishing the book, is it possible that his true soul was whisked away by cultivation or another shard for future use . The only perspective we have of his transition are from Taravangian's POV and by necessity if a rescue was performed by other forces his deception would be the goal. Obvious alternative is that his soul is claimed by Dalinar's warm light/glow/God (capital "G")....I just don't see the powers of Honour and Odium referring to a remnant of Adonalsium as "claimed by another" or if its a natural passing I doubt the wording "Claimed" seems valid. I also find it suspicious we don't get a POV of Dalian's ultimate transition into the spiritual/afterlife..... Anyone with thoughts or Ideas for wording for a WOB questions to confirm he is actually removed from the board? Personally I'm about 80% sure this is his true death other than the clone Taravangian has but....the idea of a Odium blackthorn vs a Cultivation or even better a Sazed empowered Dalinar square off reveal in Mistborn era 3/4 would be amazing. I know end of Era 2 Sazed is still looking for a champion.... Dalinar would not move on if given a alternative to continue the fight IMO.

Alarm set, going for T4... Because I tied for both the Elsecaller and Windrunner orders on the quiz (58% on both) and the only reasonable solution is to get both orders .....and every other to be sure I have all the relevant goodies. #Windcaller what a awesome order name!

No there is nothing SOLID but I do think there is "potential" for her to become a Edgedancer (loving/Healing), I mean lets face it Lifts not going to be leading the order.... she is however the least likely IMO to become a Radiant from those I listed.

The Kholin family already has three confirmed radiants (Jasnah, Dalinar, Renarin) , with a reasonable case to me made for up to four more all carrying the same last name in Elhokar, Adolin, Navani & Shallan if the marriage goes through. That's a Whopping total of Seven should they all swear the oaths. Now I do know that some of these are a stretch, but quite solid cases can be made for all. The question is does anyone think this is a problem? Something to keep in mind also is that it appears that some orders of spren (eg: Wyndle) are able to choose their "human" based on attributes other then personality/traits as was shown with Lift so a Spren choosing someone like Elhokar is perfectly possible should they decide a person in a position of power is needed (Presumably guiding their selected human towards a Radiant's path). Should you have solid arguments as to why any of these could NOT be a Radiant i'm interested to hear it.

Yeah I want him to get the extra cash

Does anyone know the ETA of Signed copies of WoR from the Sanderson store? I have a complete collection of signed cosmere works and I'm looking to fill this one spot....

Here is my take with a few changes in BOLD Generals/Public Relations- Bondsmiths Reconnaissance/Rapid response - Windrunners, Skybreakers Heavy Infantry - Stonewards Artillery/Heavy weapons- Releasers (aka Dustbringers), Skybreakers Special Forces - Edgedancers Medics - Edgedancers, Truthwatchers Intelligence Analysts (desk bound intel officers- Truthwatchers Military Police - Skybreakers Field Intelligence/Propaganda/Espionage - Lightweavers Logistics (food/supplies/housing) - Elsecallers, Lightweavers Transportation/Communication - Elsecallers, Willshapers Engineering - Willshapers

I'm Inclined to agree though I think that they will be regarded as at least Highprince level or even above, Until they become more common till then I see them outranking all but Kings then once numbers swell to say several dozen they will start to be removed outside of the chain somewhat, though It seems that there will still be leaders for each order as per the top floor of Urithiru having 11 short podiums which I presume is for the ten orders "Leaders" to have meetings and the 11th being for someone to "address" the gathering. Once this happens these "Leaders" of each order will I expect command at LEAST king level social status.

I know that we already have the Kholin family, with at least three and possibly even four Radiants within & I know this bothers some people though realistically the values of parents are often transferred to their children and with how the Nahel Bond functions I personally think this makes sense and have no problem with it. But back to the point I'm gonna throw down my speculation for the record that Lirin (Kaladins farther) will become a Radiant. His attitude and morals just scream future radiant to me ...though I really have no idea where he would fit in ...considering he is pretty much a complete pacifist ....Edgedancers (Loving/Healing) or perhaps Willshapers (Resolute/Builder) seem good places for him. This all depends a lot on what we find once Kal gets back to Hearthstone & how much events have managed to change Lirin's personality.

Thanks for the link sorry for re-posting on something you already started, I do like your deductions too. However again I find that the abilities you give the surge make it too similar to Transformation in practice. Who cares if you can deform objects to new shapes/uses when another surge can simply "create" them from air/stone. Something about this surge just makes me think of it more like "that group had good Cohesion" as if this surge helps everyone work more as a team. Basically a communication surge but with a name that makes it seem more of a "force".

I'm about 1/4 of the way through a much slower reread now but has anyone noticed any details on how this surge will work or even solid thoughts on the subject. Currently this is the only surge which I just have Zero idea how it will function. Looked up a few definitions. here is the google one: the action or fact of forming a united whole. "the work at present lacks cohesion" synonyms: unity, togetherness, solidarity, bond, sticking together, continuity,coherence, connection, linkage, interrelatedness This has me wondering if perhaps it can create some kind of "extra" bond between Radiants, sharing experiences/Knowledge/information... power(s), Perhaps something else entirely? Though it could just be a direct opposite of Division and simply joins objects but that seems way too close to adhesion to me Your thoughts.....?

All is well lol, I just miss edited the image when I updated it, I was meaning to follow KiManiak's suggestion and put one of them in the wrong spot ...I will fix it shortly . Yes I agree that makes no sense.

I'm going to favor order#5 as Willshapers for now as to me that sounds more like a Illusion radiant name then Truthwatcher also the Truthwatchers sound more like information gathering Radiants and therefor the Transportation surge seems important ...could well be wrong a lot of this depends on exactly what Cohesion entails

Very nice I knew someone one would already have this wrapped up for me all your reasoning is solid with the only exception being the surges being in order from the Ars Arcanum but for i'm gonna say i'm 99.9% sold on this anyway if it's a red herring then its so convincing who could be blamed to taking the bait. 8/10 in order then swap the last two, I doubt it

*EDIT filled it in fully Your opinions and reasoning behind where you would place Truthwatcher Bondsmith Cohesion Tension The Final so far unnamed order EDIT: *Willshapers (thanks KiManiak) i'm only just starting my first re-read now.

I'm on the sunshine coast and have been trolling every books store I walk past (or drive 30min out of my way to walk past) for a possible early copy for the last week or so. No luck I have all of Brandon's cosmere works In Hard cover and signed from his web store so I'm just gonna get a e-book Asap and get my signed hardback in a month or so ...then a paper back once i see one for re-reading and friend lending I recommend fishpond.com if you want to order and get it asap its a Aussie company and the shipping will be as short as your gonna get.

My pet theory is that the Knights Radiant present in that scene simply invested the rest of his squad in some way reduced friction so they could move and fight more effectively in knee deep water... I I expect Kaladin to begin doing something similar with bridge four soon walking around at 25% of your normal weight could be VERY useful on the plains, jumping chasms wearing heavy armor would be a breeze!

Dalinar notice that the Radiant in red plate moved through the water a little to smoothly perhaps these men have just had there friction turned down a notch my a Edgedancer, I think I remember Kaladin making the bag of gems glow when he first made it stick to the barrel in WoK, it this is the case the Radiant in red simply touched a few of her men on the way to engage the giant rock monster, downing their friction a good fraction exempting their feet ...this could make Edgedancer very potent catapult alternatives...imagine sliding car size boulders across the ground as though they are made of soap...through ranks of the enemy! I expect Kaladin will start doing something similar for his men once he starts using his gravity surge ..all of bridge four running about with a 3/4 lashing upwards (25% weight) making them run faster and jumping chasms ect.. ect just my wild imagination at work maybe Anyway just my 2 cents

While I agree your reasons for dismissing Temperature / Density & Conductivity for being properties of matter and not Forces is sound I do want to provide a rebuttal as I was actually close to ruling out Density for it being for all purposes identical to Atmospheric pressure just applied all forms of matter (solid,liquid and gas) not just gases. So as far as all the surges being forces is concerned I think Brandon has already broken that rule. In all honesty its gotta be tough to come up with ten forces as in reality there is only four Real forces in nature the, strong force (what holds the core of atoms together) , the Weak force (what causes radiation) , Gravity & the electromagnetic Force. Going off that as a grounding there is only justifiably two forces out of ten on that chart , Gravity and then Division if you could call that a kind of radiation/atom splitting surge. All we can really go in is if anything would "feel" out of place on that chart....hence density and atmospheric pressure sort of conflict but IMO temperature or conductivity would not seem out of place (to me). Resonance is defiantly one of my favorites at the moment though, but its coming third to a tied conductivity or temperature due to me not being able to "visualize" resonance being used other then to yell across a continent or break stuff a la wine glass opera singer style Temperature and Conductivity well you can easily see used for those ...but who knows Brandon undoubtedly has a better imagination then I do... Hell up until I read the Lift interlude I could not have imagined friction being so god dam kick arse ! Anyone got any other fresh ideas for surges that are not on that list?

Just so we know what i'm ranting about here is the current state of what we know. we are talking about surge #9. And a few of my pet theories about what the Unknown surge could be. 1: Temperature 2: Density 3: conductivity 4; ductility/flexibility 5: frequency Please throw any ideas or your logic as to why any on my current list are not workable so that I can compile myself a nice list to go through and I will edit the list as options become available or debunked.

Could you let me know where I can find that chapter where Amaram is talking with Dalinar, I have not read that yet and I have access to the Steelhunt content ... *edit; the Quote in question did not show fixed that so anyone else that knows can answer as well

I find the Three lashings to be very Un-cannon and will continue to consider it a work in progress on the limits of a KR's powers until I read otherwise for no less then a PoV from Jezrien stating such (even other Radiant's could ill informed of limitations). I have Read within the shard forums that we have the WoB that each surge (sometimes order) has three lashings attributed to it, I find this to be almost impossible in implement too all the surges or orders no matter how you try to work it. How could you have three different "lashings" or ways to use transformation, transport, Division ...ect ect... other powers have obvious "reverse" effects like a Positive & negative application ..friction,air pressure and surface tension....though I will admit It could be that a KR can only move these forces in one direction ...say a decrease only in friction or a raising of air pressure only ... Imagine the destruction you could do creating areas of total vacuum on a battle field O,o I can only guess that every order will be unique and that their is all kinds of imaginative ways a radiant could use their surges both on a individual basis and in a synergy. Edit: I would much like a link to where I can see this quote form Brandon about all surges or orders having three lashings each.

I was speaking with regard to the death of Primes Re: Steelhunt material and the list he is given at the end of TWoK after Taravangian has been revealed. My response was to deal with the issue of both a Prime and then a Primes immediate successor being assassinated with in a short time period (I think it was under 10 days) .

In regards to the problem of how Szeth Is killing people all over the world in such a short time and the issue of timing Szeth is working for a wealthy benifactor now, Taravangian could be providing him with a virtually Limitless amount of stormlight he just needs to re-charge his treasury every highstorm. Hell Szeth could be returning back to Taravangian every night for all we know and departing the following night with a backpack full of charged spheres we have to remember that Szeth is effectively a windrunner and could be using a 10x lashing to fly at near supersonic speeds (only limiting factor would be heat created from wind resistance) crossing the continent as he pleases and picking up fresh supply of stormlight at designated locations......problem solved.