skaa

Those spiked against their will are of course victims of the Invasive Investers and ought to be avenged. Fear not, Winter! We shall search for ways to free you from your Hemalurgic bondage! Meanwhile, just try to enjoy your conversations with Harmony, and try to avoid Ruinous thoughts and deeds!Edit: I would suggest regularly burning aluminum to lessen the bad effects of Hemalurgy and lessen the chance to burn other metals. Try burning a very tiny pellet every hour... or heck, any chance you get. Aluminum is cheap now! I am currently doing research on temporarily turning Hemalurgic beings into kandra. That way they can remove their spikes safely before they are turned back into their regular unspiked selves.

I like this, though only for irrational/abstract reasons. One of my theories is about the importance of metal in fabrial creation, and so a Fabrial Scientist like Navani becoming a member of the Foil Order of Willshapers would greatly amuse me. Well, technically, Navani is just the widow of a Kholin and the mother of two Kholins.

If we are to trust Jasnah about what she says about this, then naturespren are of Cultivation. I think Ivory would have corrected her if she was wrong about that.

That's what I thought as well. I don't think a non-Returned person with 50,000+ Breaths could survive giving away his Breaths with Perfect Invocation. But as I said in the original post, perhaps a Returned could survive it by suppressing his Divine Breath beforehand.

It was just speculation. Come on, can you really not imagine it being a gravity-enhancing effect? But sure, the surprising heaviness could just be from the material the sword is made of. For all we know, Nightblood's physical structure might be solid gold, and that his black coloring is just an effect of his Investiture. I... I actually kind of like that idea... The black smoke that seeps from him when unsheathed also has strange behavior with regards to gravity, but we can always just chalk that up to "cool factor", can't we?

Um, it's also something that Gravity Surgebinders can do. We've seen Szeth do it when he was fighting Gavilar. Anyway, gravitation on Roshar, maybe the Cosmere in general, is related to a specific spiritual connection an object has with a planet. If Nightblood is unusually heavy due to his ability to strengthen this connection, I just thought it'd be possible for him to grant that ability to one he's bonded to as a spren, since granting abilities is what spren-bonding does on Roshar.

I think Sebarial could be a fun Willshaper, but I'm wishing he could be an Elsecaller. We need a Wise and Careful Radiant who isn't so grumpy all the time. Also, I hope Palona is a Herald. I think Battar might be wise and careful enough to procure a false identity. Edit: I reread the chapter where Palona is introduced, and it appears that she's Herdazian. This sort of makes the Palona is Battar theory a bit less likely. On the bright side, that chapter also has Sebarial talking about being "careful" under two separate contexts, and also about the wisdom of his decisions as highprince, so he still might be a proto-Elsecaller. Some theories are about stuff affecting multiple Shardworlds, like Odium's pre-Roshar shenanigans, the relationship between Shards in general, the Three Realms, Shardworlds in general and other astronomical bodies in the Cosmere, Investiture, Hoid and other Worldhoppers, Adonalsium... those stuff might not fit in a specific series forum, so they go here. Collected Words of Brandon also go here sometimes if they contain stuff about multiple series and they aren't from a single event (there's an Events forum for individual events). I personally prefer posting my series-specific theories in their proper series forum. But hey, as long as the mods don't complain, feel free to post what you want. Disclaimer: I am not a mod. Following my advice regarding forum behavior may or may not get you reprimanded, downvoted, banhammered, or used as a Hemalurgic victim by the mods and admins of the 17th Shard.

The original Skybreakers have the Gravitation and Division Surges. Nightblood does seem to exhibit gravity-enhancing effects (he is much heavier than he looks), so maybe as a Splinter on Roshar (i.e. a spren) he could grant this gravity-enhancing power to Szeth. And if Szeth wants to "divide" things in a dramatically destructive way like the Division Surge does, well, I reckon Nightblood could help him with that somehow.

Heh, yeah, I corrected myself before you were able to post. Sorry about that, Kurk! Apparently Lifeless, who unlike Drab have no Spark of Life, are grey. So it must be the Spark of Life that gives a regular Drab what bit of color he has. I don't think such a thing exists in a Returned, though, so a Perfectly Invoked Breath transfer Command should still turn him white if Perfect Invocation does apply in that case.

Fact 1: Transfer of Breath to one object requires draining the color of another object, usually turning it grey. Fact 2: When a person transfers all of his Breath to a target (e.g. by using the Command "My life to yours, my Breath become yours"), the color drained is his own. The person loses color, turning dull, becoming "Drab". Fact 3: A Drab is a Nalthian with no discernible Innate Investiture, meaning he does not exhibit the physical enhancements given by the Shard Endowment to all Nalthians at birth. Note that being Drab doesn't necessarily mean one has given his Breaths away to someone else; he might have simply hidden it in an object, or suppressed it the way Vasher and Denth do. Fact 4: Perfect Invocation, the power to drain colors from objects so completely that they turn white, is one of the powers achieved upon reaching the Tenth Heightening (~50,000 Breaths). Now, suppose a person with Perfect Invocation gives away all his enormous store of Breath. Does his ability mean he will turn white instead of simply becoming dull-colored? Does he become a White Drab? If so, what would that entail? If being a regular Drab means your Innate Investiture is removed, what else was removed from a White Drab? His Spark of Life? If so, is a White Drab simply a Dead White Drab? That would normally be true for one of the Returned, since giving away their Divine Breath is fatal to them. But a Returned could learn to suppress his Divine Breath, as I said earlier. In fact, that must be how the Hallandren God Kings pass Peacegiver's Treasure on to their successors, by suppressing their Divine Breath before performing the transfer. And as we know, Peacegiver's Treasure is what gives God Kings their Tenth Heightening, and therefore their Perfect Invocation. Too bad we don't see a Hallandren succession ceremony in the book. I bet the previous God King would literally turn white the moment he gives away the Treasure. *** But wait, wasn't Peacegiver just another name for Vasher? Why then isn't Vasher white? The answer is simple. A Drab regains color when obtaining Breath, and Vasher obviously obtained at least one Breath a few days after handing over his Treasure (otherwise he would have died). Unless Vasher regains Tenth Heightening at some point in the future, he'll never have the chance to become a White Drab again. *** I still haven't discussed how I think White Drabs experience the world. We have virtually no clue at all about it, actually. I think it would be fun, though, to speculate on interesting ways White Drabs might perceive things. I invite you guys to contribute. Since regular Drabs see the world as less bright and less colorful, what if White Drabs see the world in monochrome? Let's make the speculation more interesting. I propose that this monochrome vision is related to Identity: Things that have stronger Cognitive Identity appear darker to them, and those with less Identity appear lighter. In other words, I boldly speculate that White Drabs can see the Nalthian Cognitive Realm, and that this is the key to Nalthian Worldhopping.

After a painful two-hours-long and ultimately failed wisdom tooth extraction today that made me seriously fear for my life (I even thought at some point that I had died and was already in hell), I now wish I had healing and/or time-resetting powers, my RP character's convictions be damned. I'll return here when I'm no longer grumpy and in pain. Meanwhile... Members, do as you wish.

There are also voidspren, spren of Odium, and we know he's still alive. A Shard can form a number of Splinters without it being fatal to its holder, as can be seen on Nalthis, and of course on Roshar. I suspect any Shard attempting to Invest on Roshar will produce spren whether it wants to or not.

A small gemstone-powered toy robot waddles into the dark alley, approaching Snoopy and Winter Cloud."It's aluminum that stores Identity, not nicrosil," says a voice coming from the robot. "Nicrosil stores Investiture." The toy robot waddles away, leaving them slightly more informed.

Voidus, my Hemalurgic friend, most spren are not sentient, certainly not flamespren or gravityspren, or any spren currently used in Fabrial Science. As for enslaving sentient beings, that's why I detest the concept of the Nahel bond. People shouldn't have their souls invaded and their actions controlled just so they could access a measly two Surges, when fabrials give access to all ten. The Ring is doubly culpable, for they force their individual members to risk their lives in performing such atrocities. I understand that this is all to defeat Odium, and that there is still much to improve in Fabrial Science, but the day will come when there will be no more excuse for all parties involved. I'm just glad most spren civilizations don't seem to enjoy this wretched relationship and are only forced to do so to defeat the Enemy.

My theoretical Allomantic technology doesn't require an Allomancer to be present. One simply needs to have harmonium (which I've theorized is just purple gold, an aluminum-gold intermetallic). Here's the WoB that Southern Scadrians access the Metallic Arts via technology: *** Welcome to the Society! *** The problem is that intelligent Hemalurgists protect the linchpin spike from easy access. The ideal scenario would be for an anti-Hemalurgy spike to be capable of activating at any Hemalurgic bindpoint. That way, even a simple nail gun (of the type that can be fired without touching its target) loaded with anti-Hemalurgy spikes can neutralize Hemalurgic targets, even those that have Gold Feruchemy spikes. Of course, my trusted method of riddling them with aluminum fragmenting bullets always works.

Sort of like an anti-linchpin spike? I think that's an awesome idea! If we hadn't already known that aluminum steals Allomantic Enhancement powers, it would have been the perfect candidate for such a spike. Lerasium also has a Hemalurgic purpose, so that's also out. My best guess would be harmonium, which (under my own theory) I don't think could carry Hemalurgic charges. Edit: I just realized that you're referring to any metal that can't carry a charge. Interesting. If this was true, the Steel Inquisitors must have discovered it during their many Hemalurgic experiments, and must have therefore been known to the Lord Tyrant. Unfortunately, Rashek did not speak of such a technique in the Vetitan metal plate where he talked of the weakness of Hemalurgic creatures. Perhaps it's still possible, though.

Current Name: Skaa Gender: Male Faction: The Investiture-Challenged Awareness Society Position: Founder and President Backstory and History: I am an engineer from the Scadrial of an alternate Cosmere, where the persons you call Elend and Vin did not exist (or perhaps they died early and were lost to history). In my universe, it was Tindwyl who became Harmony. She made the Lord Tyrant Rashek saner and less violent, but the discrimination against the Investiture-challenged was still allowed to continue. Except now Feruchemists have joined the Allomancers in oppressing the disenfranchised individuals they label as "skaa" (a term which now means anyone in the Empire not born with power and isn't part of the Hemalurgic College). I escaped this wretched society as soon as I could, traveling in search of a rumored civilization located on the opposite side of the planet. Along the way I met a Worldhopper from Sel (from MaiPon to be exact). Together, me and my companion discovered the secrets of the Scadrian civilization Rashek hid all those centuries ago. From there, armed with Allomantic technology, I traveled across Shardworlds, learning various ways to access Investiture without myself being Invested. Since then, I have made the Investiture-challenged in my universe a Cosmeric force to be reckoned with. And now I have come to your universe. Powers: Absolutely nothing. And everything. Weapon(s) of Choice: Aluminum-alloy handguns, and an army a collection of Invested killer robots devices that also utilize giant laser beams the latest technological breakthroughs. Likes: Science! And Freedom! Dislikes: The Invested Oligarchy

Infusing a spike with mist was a popular theory back in 2013. I don't remember it being verified by WoB, but I'll to try to find it later if it does exist. Edit: Here is the old thread discussing mist-Invested metals as the basis of Allomantic technology. It was Kadrok, I think, who first suggested that Hemalurgy might have a role in this. I don't see any update regarding a WoB, though. I made this thread to kind of test the waters, so to speak, to see if roleplaying is for me. My main problem with roleplaying is that I find the idea of giving oneself awesome superpowers (as most 17th Shard roleplayers do) to be sort of self-aggrandizing and distasteful, even if it's just pretend. The obvious solution is to roleplay as a non-powered character, but then how do you make a non-powered character interesting? The character I created, the rebel skaa who is a Science-lover, an Investiture scholar, and also a bit of a Marxist, is my attempt to answer that question. I also invited Cosmere theorists to join this guild just in case my roleplaying adventures don't pan out, because theorizing is what I enjoy the most here in the forums. I want to surround myself with people who, like me, enjoy thinking a bit too much about Brandon's magic systems. That's also why I made Rule 2, by the way. Basically, Rule 1 represents my dislike of typical 17th Shard roleplaying characters, while Rule 2 represents my love for Cosmere theorizing. Does that make sense? As for what I think of Invested technology on Scadrial, you may check out my harmonium theory here.

Ah, I see. That one. I don't think I'm ready to tackle the SE quite yet. I am not as brave as my character here seems to be. Your courage to take a stand against Hemalurgy impresses me, Shlee. Would you like to join the Society?

(Edit: The contents of this post was irretrievably lost by a stupid edit I made. Sorry.)

The widespread use of safe non-invasive fabrials, Allomantic Technology (i.e. accessing the Allomantic potential of metals without ingesting them), and other non-invasive Investiture-technology are part of the Society's aims. I thought that was obvious. We also investigate invasive Investiture as part of our weapons research so that we are aware of possible weaknesses we can exploit. And exploit them we will! The Invested Oligarchs shall see that their rule is at an end! The rule of the masses is at hand!

Graaah! And am I to waste Regrowth on these self-abusers?! I am a revolutionary scholar, kinxer! Not a doctor! There are enough Savant hospitals on Scadrial for the likes of these! If, after detox, they've actually learned their lesson about how dangerous Investiture can be for the body, that's when I'll let them in!*calms down a bit and looks at Screwloose* Speaking of powers that can destroy oneself, I expect you already know to not use yours unless in the presence of enemies, Screwloose, and even then only if your standard-issue weapons won't work. That rule shall apply here even after you've defeated your weakness, which you should try doing anyway as soon as possible for the safety of all. You, along with Snoopy, are on probation. *goes off for a drink* [Out-of-character: I wonder if I should keep the Society thread strictly non-RP for now? I'm starting to regret how single-minded my character needs to be for him to be believable. Members! Let's take a vote. Do you want this thread to stick to non-RP discussions on Invested technology? Or do you want me to keep playing this game of being a professionally aggrieved rebel leader?]

I am GLaD you shared that insightful analysis of DA philosophy, Lindel!

So far the members have only acknowledged the difficulty of the question, so you might have to wait a bit more for an answer. I personally do not want to involve myself in questions of ethics regarding non-sentient creatures, but the consensus of the discussions will be the opinion of the Society. Or we might end up giving up on this topic and collectively say "We have no opinion on the matter."