PinkPlasma

On 3/31/2023 at 10:28 AM, Quantus said:

A shardblade could work if they are really lucky/accurate, but it would first have to separate the Fullborn from his Gold Metalminds.  That might be asking too much against a Speester with infinite Atium.

Infinite Stormlight doesnt necessarily mean Infinite Scale (or Reach) of Surges, there are still limits to how much their Bond can channel and Spiritweb can support before Savantism damage sets in. "Infinite Stormlight" basically just a Radiant in a storm with lots of gems, or a Herald before Honor broke.  

I was under the impression atium was off limits for vs speculations. cus if not i have absolutely no idea how the radiant could possibly win

On 4/12/2023 at 7:53 PM, a Faceless Immortal said:

I mean, that is definitely a possibility!

I am inclined to believe otherwise however, for two main reasons:

1. Odium to me feels like he's going to be a major Cosmere villain, and so having him merge into the shard of War being held by Dalinar would make Dalinar said major Cosmere villain, which I really do not want to see
2. Dalinar's character arc seems to me to be mostly about his reconciliation with the atrocities of war, and uniting people rather than creating fractures, ie wars.

Both these points may be invalid because they are just my opinion, but I thought I'd throw them into the ring to see what others think of them

I think I could see a possibility where dalinar is given the opportunity to take up both shards as sazed did, but denying it. buuuuut this is still like. 6 books away. a lot can change.

as far as I'm aware, it's still a mystery, but I'd say sentient power

Hiya! its me Freya  
So I have been wondering about how the metals (non-godmetals) interact with investure, so I figured we could maybe try and use this thread to theorize a bit and gather up everything we know, because I'm sure there is stuff that I have missed. as far as I'm aware there are 17 metals that interact with ivestiture in the cosmere. 

1. Steel 
2. Iron
3. Pewter
4. Tin
5. Zinc
6. Brass
7. Copper
8. Bronze
9. Duralumin
10. Aluminum
11. Nicrosil
12. Chromium
13. Gold
14. Electrum
15. Cadmium
16. Bendalloy
17. Silver (I'm gonna ignore this one because it seems to be it's own separate thing from the other metals)

The First 16 of these metals are established parts of all 3 metallic arts (allomancy, hemolurgy, and furochemy) I'm gonna try and avoid delving into these because they are their own magic system, and less about the metals themselves and how they interact with the investiture. The 16 Allomantic metals are also established parts in making specific types of fabrials, based on what spren they interact with within a gemstone. We know that alluminum interferes with investiture on the pages in mistborn, warbreaker, stormlight, and Emperors soul. that covers a pretty huge swath of types of investure that we know that this metal interacts with. based on that, you can easily assume that it will probably interact with all other types of investiture, and that the other allomantic metals will interact investiture as well. To put the cherry on top here, I believe we have a couple Words of Brandon confirming this.

So working off of this we can assume that all the first 16 metals, (The allomantic metals) interact with all types of investiture in varying ways. but this is doesn't exactly help us understand what the metals actually do. It's like looking to see if the generator is on in a building, but never checking what it is powering. the information is good to know but not very useful on its own. so we need to list everything we know for sure that a metal does to investiture, either via WOB or on the page confirmation. I'm going to write a small group of stuff I remember and that I think is important. I would love to create a list with all confirmed effects metal has on investiture, with each metal.

A:  Rhythm of War Epigraphs (https://coppermind.net/wiki/Rhythm_of_War/Epigraphs)

The important epigraphs here are 6 through 11, giving us a fairly in-your-face piece of the puzzle. Using these I'm gonna make a couple of assumptions.

1. The categories used in the allomantic table (Push, Pull, and possibly the 4 larger categories, Physical, Mental, Enhancement, and Temporal) are still important to how metals interact. while I would be hesitant to say that the 4 larger categories are going to be the same, the metals within them clearly are. Zinc and brass, along with Pewter and Tin, still have paired effects. from what is said we can easily assume that Iron and Steel are still paired as well, although it hasn't been discovered yet. From these tidbits, we can assume that all the metals that have paired effects in the allomantic table will have paired effects on how they interact with investiture.
2. The effect the metals have, at least on some types of investiture, is a passive effect. the metals in the fabrials don't need to be invested or capital C connected to anything to have an effect, they simply change the investiture that is within close proximity to them, in this case, being pressed up against a gemstone filled with the said investiture. the metal simply has to exist, and it will have an effect. I think this is an important thing to note.
3. The metals will have similar effects across types of investiture, most of the time. the attractor fabrial, made using iron, is incredibly similar to the effect iron has in allomancy. The theorized repelling fabrial, assuming it does use steel, would also have an incredibly similar effect to how it functions in allomancy. Brass and zinc strengthen and weaken a sprens presence, very similar to strengthening or weakening the presence of a specific emotion.

B: Aluminum

Aluminum is seen across the cosmere as a sort of catch-all block to investiture at this point. it's used in fabrials to direct investiture signals by blocking certain connections, and is completely resistant to forgery. aluminum is completely immune to allomantic manipulation from steel and iron, and burning it as an allomancer is essentially the same as pressing ctrl + alt + delete on all the metals, or possibly all investiture, you had inside you (is there a WOB on if burning aluminum would get rid of stormlight or biochromatic breath in your body?). it is possible that aluminum, if thick enough, could block a shardblade. aluminum cannot be lashed or soulcast. nightblood, possibly the most invested object in all of the cosmere, is almost completely contained with just and aluminum sheath, only able to send his thoughts out to those around him. this is another huge point in favor of the third assumption I made with the Rhythm of War Epigraphs.

Tress of The Emerald Sea Spoilers (not major to plotline but still spoilers)

That's all I remember without too much digging, however I am certain there is more. Is there any big things that I missed? I have a couple of theories on how certain things like how making an aon out of a certain metal might change how it works, but I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on this stuff. 

infinite metal reserves is like. infinite speed. ininite health. infinte strength. its completely unfair

edit cus i wanted to add more

like with infinite fureochemy... its like saying they can pause time. it won't matter if the radiant has infinite stormlight if they are in a thousand little chunks spread across the world. like you wouldn't even need to be a fullborn to win that fight you would just have to be a furochemist, because there is no limit on how much of their power they can pull at once. (as stated in the books so i will assume this is true until proven otherwise) I honestly don't think this is even interesting to debate if its that drastic of an advantage.

21 hours ago, StanLemon said:

Anyone who's ever played a video game that lets you slow down time even for a moment can attest how powerful it is

best example I can think of is in horizon zero dawn. you can slow time for about 3 seconds while aiming your bow, and it is incredibly useful.

43. A SQUAD OF 4TH IDEAL LIGHTWEAVERS SHOOTING LASERS AT THEM (theres a WOB on lightweavers being able to make lasers right?)

On 3/25/2023 at 11:35 AM, Lesser spren said:

This is a thread to document all the ways to kill an entity naturally born with all the powers of a feruchemist and an allomancer. Cosmere wide invested arts are allowed extra points for creativity.

1. become a shard. smite them.

2. become an unchained bondsmith, and simply steal their connection to their abilities.

3. become an elentrian, and make yourself a fullborn

4. nuclear bomb

5. get 7 5th ideal wind runners to pin them down, and stab them repeatedly with aluminum knives. they'll run out of healing eventually.

6. plop them in the forests in threnody. cut his finger, and elsecall the crap out of there

7. get duralumin and duralmin fuel compounding speed. stuff them in an aluminum box filled with water and weld all of the seams on the box shut. drop it in center of the oceans on roshar during a highstorm. run away.

8. become a fused/herald. fight them until they eventually die, no matter how many times they kill you.

9. get kaladin to fight them (he is cursed to survive and therefore cannot be killed. according to him anyway)

18 hours ago, alder24 said:

Bone is not a part of their true body. So they can just replace it, bind with muscles, and regrow a body around the cut part. And is it cut in half? Shardblade cuts soul first, then physical, so the bone won't be cut by a Shardblade in one cut.

to be honest, im not sure if cutting the arm off a kandra would cut its soul. its so amorphous, what parts of its body are parts of its soulweb? i always thought their regrowth abilities were in the side of just physical biology, wich would mean it wouldn't repair their soulweb. but if they can repair their body like that, did it even cut the soulweb? my guess is that when you cut a kandra the blade won't even fuzz. itll just cut through. their soulweb is probably contained in their blessings and wherever they are keeping their brain (or their equivelent).

On 3/19/2023 at 4:24 PM, The Stick said:

Feruchemical Bendalloy would be great though so you could eat whatever you want in any quantity and just store away the calories.

this, with A-pewter for me

On 3/21/2023 at 1:14 AM, bmcclure7 said:

 Something I never thought of before but I like it.

 

the possibilities

 You could soothe your own emotions.  Enhance someone else with pewter, Instead of Pushing or pulling metal away from you,You can make metal Push or pull on things. 

Are 2 alomancy enhancement metals  Would probably just trade places.

 

Not sure how the temporal medals would change. Perhaps you'd put the bubble around someone else around something else.

 

 

 

well the bubbles are already external. the best I could guess is something like F-speed, but that doesn't even make too much sense.

On 3/14/2023 at 5:59 PM, alder24 said:

What if, because they don't have a limb, they could regrow their body in the direction of a severed part and just reconnect it? But from a different direction than where it was cut off.

the bone is what I think is the big problem here. they could consume their own flesh and use it again, but the bone is still cut in half.

So I think at this point most people who are knee-deep into the cosmere have noticed that the allomantic metals effect all types of investiture we have seen it interact with. aluminium is the largest example of this, as it apears in almost every book series we have seen in the cosmere now, with the exception of, if im not mistaken, Elantris. but beyond aluminum, I haven't really seen how the other allomantic metals interact with investiture. we got some useful tidbits in ROW with navani, and more usefull tidbits specifically with steel and iron in ToTES. So im making this thread for discussion on possibilites on how the other allomantic metals, like tin, bendalloy, or copper, actually effect other types of investiture. what would happen if I made an aon out of duralumin? would an allomantic steel wall physically repel a shard bearer? stuff like that! :b

On 3/14/2023 at 1:23 PM, Jofwu said:

FYI, I'm moving this to the "New Cosmere Releases" forum, on account of the Tress reference.

thank you, I forgot abt that channel

1 minute ago, alder24 said:

Mistborn would likely be able to leech illusions.

Mistborn will detect with bronze summoning a Shardblade, and Soulcasting.

  Reveal hidden contents

Rasarr

Could a Seeker detect a Shardbearer? For example, could Vin detect Adolin's Shardblade?

Brandon Sanderson

That detects Kinetic Investiture, Investiture that's being used actively, so in the summoning process, you'd probably get a blip on that, but not just looking at someone and seeing it.

Warsaw signing (March 18, 2017)

 

Turning Shardblade into a shield would mean that coins will be stopped by it and Mistborn would know via steelsight where Lightweaver is. If Mistborn is trained enough, he can have Inquisitor level of steelsight, capable of detecting and seeing via traces levels of metals in environment, completely bypassing Lightwever's illusions.

  Reveal hidden contents

Brandon Sanderson

By the way, you probably remember form book one the way that Inquisitors see. They have such a subtle touch with Steel and Iron, and their lines, that they can see via the trace metals in everyone's bodies and in the objects around them.

The thing is, any Allomancer with access to iron or steel could learn to do this. Some have figured it out, in the past, but in current times, nobody–at least, nobody the heroes know–is aware of this. Except, of course, for Marsh.

And he chose not to share it.

The Well of Ascension Annotations (Nov. 11, 2007)

 

The same darkness would blind Lightweaver as well. They can't see through their illusions. Check OB chapter when Shallan created an illusion of rock outside of Kholinar city, she had to make eyeholes to be able to look outside of that illusion. So all of your ideas won't work, because Lightweaver is blinded even more than a Mistborn.

Average Lightweaver of 3rd Ideal need to touch it to Soulcast it.

Possible, difficult to maintain, but they need to know and see how it looks like, that Mistborn can see via steelsight in the first place to make those illusions believable.

 

@PinkPlasma instead of triple posting, you can edit your post by clicking "edit" at the bottom of your post.

oh i forgot abt editing sry

I did genuinly forget about both leeching, and the fact that the lightweaver won't be able to see either, tho im not sure if they need to see if they're just hiding. but Im going to have to side with the lightweaver still. they have healing near to gold compounding, and a weapon that can take any shape and can kill the mistborn in one hit. the mistborns greatest advantage is definitely the leeching, but close combat with someone who has a shardblade is super dangerous. I don't think they can sense the illusions or stormlight with Seeking, because its difficult for them to even sense furochemy, which is super related to allomancy. something as seperate as a surge is going to be difficult. its a closer battle than I first thought, but the illusions coupled with how dangerous its going to be for the mistborn to get in close to use leeching is what does it for me. the mistborn will have to manage to grab hold of someone who also has increadibly quick reflexes and speed, pretty much equal to their pewter, except they have a weapon that can be 6 feet long and kill them in one hit. not only this, but if the leeching takes time, then the lightweaver definitely wins. holding onto someone who can soulcast for a prolonged amount of time would be exeptionally stupid, even if they just soulcast your clothes or your cloak into fire. and the more time the lightweaver has to cunfuse and disorient the mistborn, the more likely they are too win. it could go either way, and it really depends on the fighters, but with equal skill in each, I think the Lightweaver wins.
 

Could stormlight sustain a radiant in space? we know that a radiant does not need to breathe when holding stormlight, and there is no atmoshpere, so I genuinly cannot decide if the radiant will lose stormlight faster, slower, the same or not at all. would lashings even work if you aren't experiencing gravity?

12 minutes ago, PinkPlasma said:

ok more in-depth reasoning of why i think the lightweaver would win. first, off they can make bright lights and loud sounds. so the mistborn is either stunned and dazed the entire fight, or they have no tin. all the lightweaver has to do is coat the whole area around the mistborn in darkness, then have their voice come from a hundred different directions. completely disoriented either way. time bubbles are a good pause button but don't solve the illusion problem. they could spray coins in all directions but the lightweaver can just turn their sword into a shield until they get up close. they can run away but then the second they do that the lightweaver can just coat a huge area around them in darkness and take cover with their shield until the mistborn comes back. maybe copper will kill off illusions in the cloud, but the darkness outside the cloud would still make the fight so much harder. and illusions still aren't even the dangerous power. soulcasting has tons of dangerous potential. turn the ground into oil, and hide it in an illusion, the second the mistborn lands to search for you, their ignited in flame. or a hundred other options, what if they soulcast all the mistborns metal vails so they're just filled with blood? now they are out of metals and very disturbed. soulcast their steel and iron anchors while theyre pushing/pulling. that would totally mess them up. the problem here, is that we haven't actually seen any lightweaver use their powers well. would shallans fake army have been more usefull than making every enemy soldier blind with blazing light in front of their eyes? or bursting their eardrums with fake thunderclaps? she absolutely had the stormlight and connection to the spiritual realm to do it, the problem is that she isn't thinking that way, and if all lightweavers are like that, then yes they will lose. but the lightweaver has far more potential than we have seen

you know, I just realized the lightweaver could probably make illusions of fake iron/steel lines. as long as copper doesn't kill illusions (although I suspect it will, or at minimum make them harder to maintain) They could confuse the mistborn to extreme amounts

ok more in-depth reasoning of why i think the lightweaver would win. first, off they can make bright lights and loud sounds. so the mistborn is either stunned and dazed the entire fight, or they have no tin. all the lightweaver has to do is coat the whole area around the mistborn in darkness, then have their voice come from a hundred different directions. completely disoriented either way. time bubbles are a good pause button but don't solve the illusion problem. they could spray coins in all directions but the lightweaver can just turn their sword into a shield until they get up close. they can run away but then the second they do that the lightweaver can just coat a huge area around them in darkness and take cover with their shield until the mistborn comes back. maybe copper will kill off illusions in the cloud, but the darkness outside the cloud would still make the fight so much harder. and illusions still aren't even the dangerous power. soulcasting has tons of dangerous potential. turn the ground into oil, and hide it in an illusion, the second the mistborn lands to search for you, their ignited in flame. or a hundred other options, what if they soulcast all the mistborns metal vails so they're just filled with blood? now they are out of metals and very disturbed. soulcast their steel and iron anchors while theyre pushing/pulling. that would totally mess them up. the problem here, is that we haven't actually seen any lightweaver use their powers well. would shallans fake army have been more usefull than making every enemy soldier blind with blazing light in front of their eyes? or bursting their eardrums with fake thunderclaps? she absolutely had the stormlight and connection to the spiritual realm to do it, the problem is that she isn't thinking that way, and if all lightweavers are like that, then yes they will lose. but the lightweaver has far more potential than we have seen

ok so here's my thing with the lightweavers. they have the potential to make any apponent blind, by just putting an illusion of darkness over their face. idk abt you guys, but its hard to dodge a shardblade if you can't see.

alr I don't think people are really viewing the fullborn at max potential here. yes a 5th ideal windrunner has ways to deal with certain things a fullborn can do, but not all of the fullborns potential all at once. the fullborn can almost fly, have essentially godlike strength, pewter reflexes, healing that is canonically faster than storm light healing purely based on how furochemical tapping works, they can turn every peice of metal in their area to a deadly missle and can go constantly 5 times the speed of the radiant. there are so many ways that the fullborn can end this fight and win that I don't think I can list them all. they can run straight up to them before they have a chance to react, and then start pulling every peice of metal in the area towards them in a burst of compounded iron and and allomantic iron, both fueled by duralumin. then they could make a speed bubble, turn up their F-pewter, A-pewter and compound speed. then they punch the radiant one or two times to get rid of the plate and get out of the way for the metal to do the rest of the work. and thats STILL not using most of their abilities, and that would be a devastating if not fatal blow to the radiant. their healing is more efficent in every way, the most obvious one being that they have store dedicated specifically to healing that doesn't fade throughout the fight. the radiant runs on one single power source, that drains for each of their powers beyond shards. the fullborn runs on 16 seperate power sources each dedicated to two powers, that does not fade throughout the battle if they aren't using them. unless they're in a barren feild the fullborn will have a multitude of things to move at their disposal, with a far more direct touch than lashings can acheive. a radiant needs to be touching something to lash it. the fullborn doesn't have such restrictions, although they can only move metal, wich makes the radiants attacks slightly more difficult to dodge, but the fullborns other swarm of abilties makes that essentialy immaterial. even the plate is barely a challange for the fullborn, who can break them in two or three hits of compounded strength and speed with pewter. the hardest thing for them to deal with is going to be the shard weapon, which if used correctly can be truely tterrifying. a weopon that changes with each blow is hard to deal with, espically if it has the possibility to kill them in one blow, but if they're smart and know how to use speed bubbles and compounded speed correctly, they can deal with that pretty easily. it wouldn't be a quick fight, and there are situations where i can see the fullborn dying, but they're far more unlikely, and it is far, far more dangerous for the radiant.

So, I think most of us have known for a while now that the allomantic metals actually effect all kinds of investiture. we see it constantly in books outside of mistborn. nightbloods sheath is made of aluminum, fabrials use the allomantic metals to get specific effects, and its used in all three of the metalic arts. we also know that Nightblood is actually made of an allomantic metal, although idk if we know which one it is. we also see iron and steel used in ToTES. but there has been one thing that has been bothering me for a long time now. and its silver. silver isn't an allomantic metal. but it effects investiture anyway. it seems to destroy it in some way, or absorb it, or send it back to the spiritual realm??? its awfully similar to aluminum in the way that it is used as a sort of investiture insulation, but it tends to get rid of investiture more, sometimes in an area around it. is it possibly changing the enviroment around it to make investiture more diffucult to remain in the physical realm? would it work the same in other realms? its just bizzare, and I feel like ive missed something important. does anyone know more about silver? do we have WOBs maybe? or just any ideas on what it actually is doing?

9 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

Eh, imo you can't 1 hit kill a high Ideal Radiant without something that turns off healing or gets around it (Nightblood, anti-Investiture, larkins eating all the Stormlight, etc). Stormlight healing should fix a crushed head if you're a high Ideal Radiant (though not a Herald).

I think this could easily become inconclusive where neither combatant has a good way to kill the other -- depending on how much f-Gold Health it takes to deal with Shardblade wounds. Leeching would likely be quite slow against Roshar levels of Investiture.

i think leeching is as instant as aluminum, is it not?

alr i have recently stumbled apon this and have decided that it is now the best way to rate any superpower or magic system. it goes like this:

Can the power/magic system allow me to win a fight from a random guy with a shotgun? if not it fails. bad power not useful for combat. if yes, how many random guys would it be able to let me take on?
 

post your assesments :b

Edit: sorry, i wasn't aware that the word I was using was a slur

spoiler for context here

On 2/28/2023 at 0:08 PM, Frustration said:

We call them Fullborn.

And I'm probably going to have to go with the Windrunner, but it's going to be close.

They can fly higher than a fullborn can reach, and then escape away in case things go bad for them.

Fullborn, while ludicrously strong, can't go anywhere that Windrunners can't follow, and lack a way to instantly kill them.

i think you're forgetting abt leeching. that, and a fullborn with duralumin and steel can move in the air in ways raidiants won't expect, and if they have atium? like atium is an instant win. or if they jumped up, grabbed the radiants leg, leeched them, then compounded iron and gold? not to mention there is no way a windrunner could possibly keep up with a fullborn. compound speed, instantly impossible to even track them because they're moving so fast. this radiant is outmatched in healing, speed, and firepower. the only lasting advantage they have is plate, which i honestly doubt could survive two or three punches from someone compounding strength and speed. maybe the plate protects them from leeching, but plate vs that much firepower, i think most of the plate would be broken pretty early on in the battle. duralimin enhanced coinshot, and compounding iron would mean coins moving faster than most bullets. now replace the coins with crates. or wheels. or swords. or just literal soldiers in plate. now you've got huge objects moving at bullet speed. on top of all of this, I think a blade would be particularly useless against someone coumpounding gold. miles literally was missing his head, and grew it back. we aren't even gonna talk abt the fact that the lord ruler walked out of a building as a skeleton, and healed completely in seconds (I believe the exact words in the book were "almost instantly" but don't quote me on that). on top of that, I don't think a radiant would be able to lash a fullborn. even if they could, the fullborn  could just pull themselves back to the ground. on top of all of this, the fullborn can essentialy put a pause button on the battle at any time. bendalloy is invaluable in a fight like this, for restocking metals or just to asses the battle field. the fullborn just has too many advantages in this situation, and most of the raidants advantages simply don't help that much in a situation like this.

ima have to go with rashek. he just... literaly genitically altered most of the popullation, so that he could stay dominant. and then he like creates horrible people around him like nobobdys buisness. even the protaganists in the story are moraly gray. he single handedly ruined all of society just to prove a point about how much better he is. like... he's almost irredeemable for me. he literally made a law that said "yea you can rape the women, just make sure to murder them after!" ...He's so bad