ElectrumSavant

Rejected. I think that the current wording is better at preventing cheating and more specific.

Given that this act was meant to prevent somebody from giving away all of their Atium before leaving the game, I will admit that I am... skeptical about your intentions for amending it, given that you are potentially facing assassination. Do you have something to say on behalf of this amendment? This act is frankly too complicated and confusingly worded. I don't think it is a bad idea, but if you want it passed either have someone second it or else reword it to make it more easily understandable. I interpret it as requiring 3 more Mistborn than the defenders under the current rules. While your logic is sound from a thematic perspective, that interpretation was not my understanding when approving the act.

That's right. Note that in order to successfully assassinate, the attackers need 3 more Mistborn in play than the defenders have in play. The countdown only begins once the attackers reach that point, and is reset if that is no longer the case. RNG of 1-100 was 82, meaning you successfully hired the Black Market Mistborn. Battle of Relidan Keep Attackers: Ightejyw (1), Wafre (1), Mist (2) / Defenders: None Time's Up for Defenders to Respond: 5:57 PM UTC EDIT: Doomstick has pulled out of the battle for now. This does not stop the countdown. EDIT EDIT: Doomstick did NOT actually pull out of the battle, this doesn't affect how the battle ended up but it does change the amount of money everyone made.

RNG of 1-100 was 12, meaning the Mistborn betrayed you and ran off with your money. Battle of Relidan Keep Attackers: Ightejyw (1), Wafre (1), Mist (1) / Defenders: None Time's Up for Defenders to Respond: 5:57 PM UTC

Very interesting. House War has begun. I'm tagging @Illwei in the interest of fairness. Battle of Relidan Keep Attackers: Ightejyw (1) / Defenders: None

I propose that we amend rule 510 in this way. As the game is drawing to a close, and people are forming bigger houses, this gap seems a bit too long. Rejected. New players are allowed to claim Atium equal to the current median, which is in the 200s at this point. This seems like a generous enough starting bonus. 2 Days, 22 Hours, 21 Minutes Remaining!

Approved. Approved. Approved.

Approved. For superior work in rule proposal, I am awarding @Illwei the role of Favored House. Approved. Approved. Might I suggest that there be other kinds of spikes available for purchase, granting different abilities? Naturally, there would be a limit to the amount of spikes a player could have. Approved. If the Seer burns Atium in response to an attack within an hour of the attack, the fight will remain unresolved until I do the RNG and declare the winner. Abstain. This seems like a lot to keep track of, and is honestly bending my mind trying to understand it. However, I'm not going to reject it outright.

Judgment Rule 201 states that "The Census should include a list of all Active players and their current amount of Atium, the current roles, and any pending rule changes." Illwei was indeed missing the pending rule changes for the Page 16 Census. It should however be noted that failure to include a pending rule change is not included in Rule 203 The Rule of Census Mistakes, so rather than forfeiting 25% of their Atium, House Relidan is fined the standard fine. As for the Page 15 Census, Illwei did not include any pending rule changes because as far as I can tell, there were no rule changes pending at the time that Illwei posted that Census. So, for Page 15's Census @Illwei of House Relidan is found Innocent and @Doomstick of House Wafre is fined 16 Atium (double fee for having a role. For Page 16's Census, Illwei of House Relidan is found Guilty and fined 16 Atium (standard*2), with House Wafre receiving 4 Atium as a reward. I would like to amend in the above way Approved. I would like to amend in the above way Approved. You're right, I should have fined both of you more than I did in some of the previous rulings. However, I'm just going to say that what is done is done and keep the fines from the original rulings, since Rule 407 forbids a single issue from coming to Judgment twice. The Atium scores of the different Houses are getting higher and higher! I wonder if someone will hit 1,024 before the game runs out of time, or if we will have to go with whoever has the most!

Judgment According to Rule 307, "the only thing that should be posted there [in the Senate PM] by members of the Senate is votes". Doomstick's F in the chat (while respectful) was not a vote and was not related to a vote. All of the rest of Doomstick's replies in the PM were on-topic, so the F is the only infraction of this rule. @Doomstick is found guilty and fined 8 Atium. @Illwei receives 2 Atium. To clarify, @Doomstick, you are pointing out that Illwei did not include pending rule changes, yes? Or is it something else? By "one time" do you mean that you can only consume your Atium once in this way, that you can only do it once per vote, or that you only get one extra one-use vote in the Senate each time you consume your Atium? Accepted. If someone does this, please post that you are doing it in the main thread, otherwise it will be difficult to know when the Mistborn 3-page cooldown is complete. Judgment Even if Illwei did not provide a unique "reason for edit" for each edit, Illwei did include a reason for edit for each edit. This reason for edit still explained what Illwei did in the edit. @Illwei is found innocent. @Doomstick is fined 8 Atium per the Mistaken Judgment Rule. Approved. Again, making Judgment easier. No, I probably wouldn't approve this if it were proposed. Since the winner is determined based on who has the most Atium, it would be kind of silly to make everyone's Atium equal every turn. Thanks for posting, by the way; I don't want to double post.

Page 15 First Rejected. It isn't permission, but it is acknowledgment. And requiring someone else to note that you are gone can prevent some forms of cheating. I would also like to amend rule 507 in the above way Approved. Judgment Yep, that's a double post. @Doomstick is fined 3 Atium, per the Anti-Double Posting Act. @Illwei will receive 1 Atium as a reward. Rejected. Alright, here's the problem I have with appointing a new Lord Ruler: whoever becomes the new Lord Ruler will have to be updating all of the rules in a central location. In the past for this thread, that has always been the first post, maintained by me. If someone else becomes the Lord Ruler, whoever it is will have to come up with a brand new place to put all of the laws that are approved. Considering that the game is going to end in 5 days, 4 hours, and 42 minutes, I don't think it is practical for there to be a new LR at this stage of the game. I don't know about this act. I'm worried that the 1.25 rate will be too fiddly and that it will be too difficult for everyone to know if they are High or Lowly. I like this act, but with every act that involves random chance I need to know how it is implemented. Are you expected to do the RNG yourself? Do you have to call in an Obligator? Or is it just a 4 purchase limit where there isn't an actual chance of being penalized before 100% but once you reach 100% with your 5th purchase you are automatically penalized? Rejected. Sorry, but I already rejected The Final Empire Act which would have established a different Lord Ruler, and I won't be available to get involved in whatever the sequel to this thread is (see my original announcement of the time limit). @Experience and @Illwei, I noticed your ideas for the sequel to this thread. Here are some potential suggestions for whoever creates the sequel: Imperial Nomic: The Well of Ascension (with a King as the leader) Imperial Nomic: The Alloy of Law (with a Governor) Imperial Nomic: The Catacendre (with a Lord Mistborn) Imperial Nomic: Makabak (with a Prime Aquasix) Imperial Nomic: Alethkar (with a King) Right now we don't have someone officially assigned to start the next thread, although @AonEne has said that she will set up a new game if no one else does. If someone wants to set up a rule for who is the leader of the next thread, we can do that. I think that it would be best if whoever the leader of the next thread is will also be the one to set up the thread, so they can edit the first post with an easily-accessible list of rules. @Somebody from Sel Welcome to the Final Empire! I don't know if you already have been told this, but as a new player you have the choice to get a starting bonus equal to the median of all other players' Atium, with the consequence of not being able to join another person's House for two pages. Also, this iteration of game ends on the 20th. Abstain. This has already been seconded, and I won't get in the way of the democratic process in this instance. But I will note that I enjoy being able to articulate with lowercase letters. I am Compounding Youth.

I hid my post so the Census would be at the top. As the LR, I can do that while other people can't (Rule 605) You're welcome. By the way, to be clear, I Approved Ilwei's Amendment to Rule 109 in the post that I hid.

@Illwei there has only been one time when someone officially Withdrew (see above), and in that circumstance, he gave all of his Atium at the same time. But it isn't actually baked into the Withdrawal Act; it was a separate action. Since the Rule of Throwing the Game applies to both gifts and loans, this is covered by the law. After a quick search, it looks like clarifications are worth 10 Atium apiece. Approved. I'll use Random.org.

These are both Approved. This will make Judgment far easier... Approved. Doesn't the Rule of Throwing the Game (just approved now) make it impossible for someone to leave "all of their Atium" to another House? Is this proposal still Pending? Approved. However, I think that Doomstick is right that this is a clarification, not an amendment. With some Rules changing "people" to "Houses" would be a serious change, but in this case it makes no difference (since Houses can't give themselves their money) Welcome aboard, @Experience of House Drab! Unfortunately, according to Rule 505 The Invitation Act you can't invite yourself, so you don't get that starting 20 Atium for being invited. But you do have the choice of getting a starting Atium equal to the median of everyone's current Atium (which is considerably higher than 20 Atium). If you go with the starting Atium, you can't join another person's House for two pages. As a new player, though, I should warn you that this thread has an expiration date: October 20. At noon UTC of that day, the Final Empire ends and whoever has the most Atium is the winner. Don't worry, though; it looks like there will be a sequel thread. Approved. Approved. Specifically, this means that if a proposal was proposed that was lacking something legally necessary for a proposal to have (such as a name) but was still approved by the Lord Ruler or Senate, at that point it is too late to bring the proposer of the law to trial and the rule change is still in effect.

Eventually, Buttercup came to realize that when Westley said "As you wish", what he meant was "I love goat" My name is Inigo Montoya! You killed my goat! Prepare to die! There is a shortage of perfect goats in the world. It would be a pity to damage yours. You hear that, princess? Those are the shrieking goats. They always scream right before they feed on human flesh! Turns out your friend here is only MOSTLY goat. "Inhale this, but do not touch." "I smell nothing." "What you do not smell is called goat."

Accepted. Accepted. Congratulations to House... Wafreightejyw-Mist? Is there going to be an official combined house name for your group? Judgment The official rule for seconding rule changes is found in Rule 302 The Senate Charter, which states that "Any rule change can be seconded by a Noble." What is a Noble, you ask? Very fortunately, the status is clearly defined in Rule 304 The Class Act, which states that "Nobles refers to any House with >=0 Atium". Therefore it is true that under the current rules it is illegal for a player to second a proposal made by someone else in their House. The issue therefore becomes a question of chronology. Since Mist seconded the proposals before joining House Wafreightejyw (even though it was in the same post), the proposal was successfully seconded. However, because Mist then joined with House Wafreightjyw within that same post, Mist lost the ability to second the proposal and so the proposal was un-seconded. So, Mist seconding the proposal was perfectly legal, but was undone immediately once Mist agreed to join House Wafreightjyw. It's a bit of a non-issue, though, because I approved both of the proposals already. @Mist of House Wafreightejyw-Mist is found Innocent. Per the Mistaken Judgment Rule, @Illwei of House Relidan is fined 8 Atium. Approved. Rejected. I personally have considered actions to be processed in the order that they appear top to bottom, and think that it is more convenient from a perspective of re-reading for Judgment. Approved. Having read through @Doomstick and @Illwei's arguments, I do think that it is fair to require new players to choose between the (increasingly substantial) starting bonus or to join one of the existing Houses. I may rewrite this rule for clarity, however.

Judgment My judicial reasoning and deliberations are lengthy, and so contained in this spoiler: In Conclusion, @Doomstick and @Danex of House Wafreightejyw are found guilty and fined a sum of 64 Atium. @Illwei of House Relidan is awarded 1/4 of this amount, 16 Atium, per The Compensation Act. The rules that Doomstick proposed, however, will stay in effect because of Rules 002 and 001, The Liability Act and The Act of Sanity. Let the executions begin.

Alright, here's a question: both with and without Investiture, who would win between Waxilium and Kaladin? With Investiture- Stormlight is powerful enough that Kaladin could shrug off a few bullets, so Wax can't just kill him outright. Wax can't Push on Kaladin's shardspear because it's a heavily Invested object, but can Push on any of Kal's other metal implements (daggers, etc), meaning that it would effectively just be Kal with spheres and his shardspear against Wax with vials, metalminds, his guns, and whatever other tools he brings, like coins or his grappling hook. Let's talk about tactics. Wax has a bit of an advantage because he can hit Kal with his guns without having to get in range of Kal's spear. However, if Kaladin can get just one solid hit in with his shardblade, Wax is dead. So the fight becomes a game of cat and mouse; Wax will probably take off immediately with Kal in close pursuit. In order for Wax to win, Wax needs to keep away from Kal for a long enough time, shooting occasionally, until Kaladin runs out of stormlight and is unable to heal himself. In order for Kaladin to win, he needs to get close enough to Wax for enough time that he can get a solid swipe in with his shardblade. The question is: which can fly better, a Crasher or a Windrunner? Wax, with his ability to instantly change his mass, can accelerate faster than Kaladin. However, Wax is dependent on having metal to Push off of, meaning that he can't go as high into the atmosphere as Kaladin can, and he also can't make sharp turns mid-flight. Kaladin also has some advantages due to his Lashings; Adhesion is mostly useless if he can't get close enough to touch Wax (in which case he would just kill Wax with his blade), but Kaladin could use a Reverse Lashing to force bullets to fly off-target or Lash objects and make them hurtle towards Wax. Reverse Lashings probably won't be that useful against regular bullets, since Kaladin will have to be carrying whatever it is he uses the Reverse Lashing on. Basic Lashings of objects, however, could potentially be a big advantage. Even though Kaladin couldn't kill Wax with a Lashed rock, he could knock Wax out of trajectory or hit guns out of his hands. Also, Kaladin can Lash all kinds of things that Wax can't Push on. As I think more and more about this scenario, I have more difficulty imagining Wax winning this fight. Yes, Wax has guns, but Kaladin's stormlight healing means that he could keep chasing after Wax for a long time- possibly for a longer time than Wax has bullets. And otherwise, Wax is on the defensive for this entire fight- as soon as Kal gets close enough, a quick swipe with a shardblade means that Wax is dead. Add in the fact that Kal can Lash objects and make them fly at Wax to knock him off-balance, and this fight becomes more and more one-sided. Even in places best suited for Wax, particularly dense urban environments with lots of metal to push off of, Kal's ability to change direction mid-flight means that any advantage Wax would gain in an urban environment would still likely not be enough to outmaneuver Kaladin completely. On average, I think Kaladin would beat a fight against Wax, although it would be a beautiful fight. Without Investiture- We'll assume that Kaladin has a normal spear and a dagger. Wax has his guns. In terms of tactics, the winner all depends on timing. Wax has a few seconds to shoot Kaladin before Kaladin runs into spear range. Once Kaladin gets close enough to use his spear, Wax has basically no way to defend himself in such close quarters. Wax probably only has time for a single shot before Kaladin gets close enough. Bear in mind, Kaladin is running at a full sprint for Wax. However, Kaladin has never fought gunpowder weapons before. While it's possible the weapon will confuse him, Kaladin has a history of adapting quickly to unfamiliar weapons and tactics and so won't have an issue against an unfamiliar weapon after it is used a single time. So, Wax has seconds to draw and fire a weapon before Kaladin reaches him. If he uses his shotgun, I can't imagine Kaladin surviving. But if he doesn't have his shotgun and instead is using a revolver, Kaladin might be able to get close enough fast enough to stab Wax with his spear even after being shot. But I think the odds definitely favor Wax without Investiture. TL;DR I think Kaladin would beat Waxilium with Investiture, Waxilium would beat Kaladin without. I welcome other opinions, though, if you think I underestimated something.

Approved. This probably won't be an issue unless players start getting negative Atium, but it helps. Approved. I'm just going to count this as an Amendment to Rule 402. Note that now that we have an active multi-player House, we may need some more rules to clarify their rules. Approved. Note that the current standard fine amount is 8 Atium. Both are Approved. May I point out that it is part of the law that the Obligator performing a service shall have "no ties" to the Houses involved. That doesn't necessarily mean that it is a violation of that rule for the Lord Prelan to do a bet through an Obligator that they appointed, but if some kind of corruption or cheating goes on in the bet, the Obligator will be considered in violation of the rule and subject to Judgment. Approved Approved. Strange, I thought we had already named all of the Rules... I guess I missed one. Congratulations are in order! I'm intrigued to see where this leads in gameplay.

Hear ye! Hear ye! I have decided to go with Option 1, as I would prefer to put this thread to a nice, actual conclusion. The Final Empire Ends at Noon, Tuesday, October 20, US Central Time If no one has 1,024 Atium by then, whoever has the most Atium wins. To anyone who is worried about being unable to catch up to the Houses in the lead, might I point out a few laws that have not yet been used by anyone but could prove helpful to someone trying to make Atium in a hurry: Rule 501, the Gambling and Services Act Rule 503, the Mistborn Act Rule 504, the Allomantic Agreement Rule 506, the Loan Shark Act Rule 507, the Act of Union Rule 508, the Assassination Act

The poll has been posted, feel free to vote but make sure that you also comment on why you are voting a certain way. Also, it is okay to vote for multiple options.

Hear ye! Hear ye! I have news- good news for me, bad news for the thread. To melt it down and forge it, I am leaving on a Latter-day Saint mission before the end of the month and so (naturally) will be unable to continue serving as your Lord Ruler. I've enjoyed seeing this thread grow and I would hate for this thread to just die out without a conclusion after I leave, so I want your feedback (not just the active players; the inactive players or even new players are also welcome to chime in) regarding the future of this thread. I will make a decision in one week's time. I might also put up a poll in a day or two. The Options, as I See Them We set a game time limit. In a certain amount of time (say, two or three weeks from now), if no one has accumulated 1,024 Atium at that point then the player with the most Atium wins. In accordance with Rule 105, I abdicate and choose one of the players to be the new Lord Ruler In theory, the Senate now has enough power that it could run the thread on its own without the need for a LR. We could revoke the laws involving the LR and let the Senate run the thread, turning this Imperial Nomic into a Democratic Nomic. Some Notes to Consider If the game ends, there is nothing stopping someone from starting up a new Nomic thread with whatever starting rules he/she likes and putting a link to it in this thread. If a new LR is chosen, he/she will need a clear, easily-accessible place to put the rules, as I won't be able to keep putting the rules on the first post. One viable option would be for the new LR to just start a new thread and copy over the existing rules for the first post of the thread, treating the new thread as a continuation of the old thread. If the thread becomes a Democratic Nomic, new roles/laws will have to be made to fill the responsibilities the LR used to handle, such as listing the Rules and passing Judgment.

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united Goats of America, When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one goat to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's Goat entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of goatkind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all goats are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Goats. That to secure these goats, Governments are instituted among Goats, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Goat becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such goats and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect goat Safety and Happiness. Goats, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while goats are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the goats to which they are accustomed. The history of the present King of Goat Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these Goats. We, therefore, the Representatives of the united Goats of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Goat of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good Goats of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these Goat Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent Goats; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the Goat British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Goat Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent Goats, they have full Power to levy Goats, conclude Goats, contract Goats, establish Goats, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent Goats may of right do.

Approved. Welcome back, everyone. Approved. Approved. Abstained. This is already essentially the case, because bear in mind: in order to be voted on in the Senate, a proposal has to be seconded by another player. Notes: @Kings_way, @Danex, and @Mist have not posted in two weeks and are therefore Inactive.

Mistborn Final Empire spoiler: