Azarias

If for some reason they were fighting, who would win?

EDIT: VIn as she was before she ascended in Hero of Ages, and Kaladin at his peak in Oathbringer

11 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

In OB Chapter 114 the Nightwatcher seems to have Nightblood as she offers Dalinar “A Blade that bleeds darkness and can never be defeated.”  In WoR Nale gives it to Szeth.

At first I thought there is no way Nale would subject himself to a Bane for a magic sword when has two already. But then I thought that’s not what he would ask for.

My theory is either Nale or Kalak (seems more like a Kalak thing) went to the Valley and asked to be released from the Oathpact. They were given a sword that can permanently kill them because it would eat up their investiture which is what gives them persistent life.

Boon: You’ll never have to go back to Braize again!

Bane: Dead forever.

Obviously they weren’t pleased with this solution so either Kalak got it and gave it to Nale or Nale got it and just hung on to it until he found a use for it. 

I agree that it seems unlikely Nale would ask for Nightblood, especially as he then gives it away to Szeth. But I do wonder why the Nightwatcher would frame it as a bane for Nale and a boon for Dalinar.

Another interesting question is how the Nightwatcher acquired it. Was giving it up the bane of Vashar? If so, what was his boon? 

42 minutes ago, Hentient said:

Welcome! Have you read the arcanum unbounded yet? If you enjoy crazy theories, it connects a lot of dots! 
whos your favorite character? 

Its sitting on my shelf, and something I plan to get to in a couple of days once I've read Elantris. Favourite character is definitely Vin- partly because she's the one that introduced me to it all. More of an unpopular opinion- I also love Shallan, not so much in way of kings but I thought what we got from her in Oathbringer was super cool. Also Szeth…. because why wouldn't he be one of your favourites  

1 hour ago, Karger said:

OK then.  I am going to spend time investigating this case of spontaneous generation.  Hemalurgy itself is not really of any use to me(nor anyone else) unless magic exists.

It can be, as it can steal more than just magical abilities. It can steal things like strength, mental fortitude and intelligence.

PHYSICAL						COGNITIVE
	Iron Steals strength	Steel Steals Physical Allomantic powers		Zinc Steals emotional fortitude	Brass Steals Cognitive Feruchemical powers
	Tin Steals Senses	Pewter Steals Physical Feruchemical powers		Copper Steals mental fortitude, memory, and intelligence	Bronze Steals Mental Allomantic powers
	Chromium Might steal destiny	Nicrosil Steals Investiture	Cadmium Steals Temporal Allomantic powers	Bendalloy Steals Spiritual Feruchemical powers
	Aluminum Removes all powers	Duralumin Steals Connection/Identity	Gold Steals Hybrid Feruchemical powers	Electrum Steals Enhancement Allomantic powers
SPIRITUAL					TEMPORAL

On 17/07/2020 at 4:58 AM, Danex said:

Wow this is getting a lot more attention than I thought it would, and these are some really great answers!

Now, I have a follow up question to everyone who said they wouldn’t tell anyone. Can you think of any situation where you might tell someone? Any situation where you might experiment or use Hemalurgy? 

While using I would say that using it on humans would definitely be wrong, there could be a case made for using it on animals. Imagine if you could take a cheetahs speed,  or add a dolphins intelligence onto your own. In fact, taking an animals health and giving it to a sick person sounds perfectly moral, at least to myself, who values a human life above an animals. The risk is that by revealing it, even if you just intend to use it on animals, it could be used on humans against your will

47 minutes ago, Mist said:

Welcome! What's your favorite book? 

My favourite book in the cosmere is definitely The Way of Kings, though the Well of Ascension definitely comes close- any book with Vin in would

According to the Coppermind:

What exactly occurred is unknown, but it is thought that nearly everything on the islands was destroyed.^[3][4] The largest island of Aimia is assumed to be altogether barren and lifeless.^[5] However, the island of Akinah, which served as Aimia's capital, was not completely destroyed. Some crem-covered buildings can still be seen from its shores.^[5]

In her work Mythica, Hessi posited that Dai-Gonarthis may have been responsible for the scouring.^[6]

^{___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________}

While its not certain, as in the source we have Hessi herself only 'posited that Dai-Gonarthis may have been responsible', we do have an in world scholar who thought that the unmade, or at least one of the unmade, was responsible

3 minutes ago, agrabes said:

Yeah - could be that there are 10 forms of voidbinding.  But, I don't think it's certain.  That's a pretty old quote.  He's said additional things since then that kind of indicate the 30 number may be outdated.  For example, he's said that the number 9 is tied to Braize the same way that 10 is tied to Roshar.  It could easily be that he just threw out the concept of 3/10/30 as a high level concept and maybe his original vision 10 years ago, but it may not be the final plan.  That statement would require 10 surgebinding types, 10 voidbinding types, and 10 fabrial types.  Like - is it likely there are 10 forms of fabrials?  I don't know that it's all that likely.  Maybe, but it doesn't seem to fit with what we know about fabrials.  I think more recent and specific information he's put out implies there are probably 9 forms of voidbinding.  

Fair enough- I was just going off the information I had seen, but if there is something more recent that says otherwise I can accept that. Btw- I too questioned the 10 fabrials- to be it seems like we will see a lot more that 10

When you say 'for Ishar to ascend', do you mean to become odium, or just to take control of and unite the unmade, or something else entirely. Also super well researched and thought out theory- wow

Quantumplation (paraphrased)

I haven't read Way of Kings yet, but I've read Warbreaker and Mistborn, and the thing I like most about them is the Magic systems.  Will Way of Kings have multiple magic systems?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Depending on how you count it, Stormlight Archive will have 3 or 30 different magic systems.

Footnote: Part of me wants to say he said "3, 10, or 30 different magic systems", but I can't remember for sure.
Towers of Midnight Cambridge signing (Nov. 7, 2010)

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

rags

You have told us there are more than 30 magical systems on Roshar. I am assuming there are 10 Surgebindings and 10 Voidbindings. Do the next 10 belong to another such classification? If yes, can you give us the name for it.

Brandon Sanderson

Fabrials are part of it.

17th Shard Forum Q&A (Sept. 26, 2012)

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

6 minutes ago, agrabes said:

Something I think is important is that you need to take the charts printed in the books with a grain of salt.  They are confirmed to be representations of in world knowledge, which may not be accurate to the "true" way things work.  We know the human scholars think that everything is based on a system of 10, which is why they would make a chart with 10 things on it for Voidbinding.  But, if you look at the number of Unmade, we know there are 9.  So, we have at least one point of evidence that Odium bases his systems on the number 9.  There's a good chance the Voidbinding chart is wrong or inaccurate.

Maybe there are some inaccuracies, but my interpretation of what is said here seems to suggest that there are indeed 10 forms of voidbinding, and it is accurate in that respect

3 minutes ago, Bzhydack said:

Thing is, they are granted by Voidspren. We know from Songs that in the past Forms of Power and Fused was all granted by Odium and see as Voidbinding. Roshar seems to have main Magic System, very similar to use no matter witch Shard is source of Investiture. We see this even with Parshendi, when they Bond with different Spren (Voidspren or lesser Spren) in the same way. Even Unmade works similar - for example, Yelig-Nar simply granted Surges to the Host.

I don't have a direct quote for this, but I am fairly sure we have WoB saying that there are 3 (or thirty) different magic systems on roshar, depending on how you look at it- surgebinding, voidbinding and fabrials. The two we know most about- surgebinding and fabrials- are very different, and so we could speculate that voidbinding will be equally different from both (with the obvious connections- such as spren and gems). Moreover, the thirty magic systems that he said there were can be divided up into 3 magic systems with ten parts (1o being roshar's number as you have already said). 10 orders of surgebinding and voidbinding (as shown by the charts), and we can then assume 10 types of fabrials. 

Hello all! I started reading Mistborn just before the start of quarantine, and have since devoured the rest of Era 1, Era 2, Stormlight and Warbreaker, and am currently making my way through Elantris, and have been absolutely loving all of it! I have so many ideas and theories I want to discuss- but please be patient with me, my memory is questionable and I'll probably get a lot wrong- but I'm excited to learn!

18 minutes ago, Bzhydack said:

If they are not using voidbinding, what they are using? Voidbinding is Odium power, now you just tell that Cognitiwe Shadows created by Odium are not using Odium Power - what doesnt make sence.

Also, 10 is number of Honor. 10 is also number of Rosharan System.

I'm new here, so I'm sorry if there's some sort of online consensus about this, but the coppermind says:

The abilities demonstrated by the Fused have so far been typical of Surgebinding, but it may be that their powers may be related to, or be a manifestation of, Voidbinding, or "Voidish Surges". It is currently unknown what system the abilities they have demonstrated fall under, and they might even belong to a yet unnamed system. If the observed abilities are not Voidbinding, it is possible the Fused might still have access to the system.

It also says:

The only ability currently confirmed to be related to Voidbinding is Renarin's ability to see the future. Though it is not known precisely how they are related, the Voidbinding chart was referenced as part of the confirmation.

While I agree that the powers of the fused are linked to odium's power, I think that it is more likely that it is odium 'hacking' or gaining use of surgebinding, rather than a completely separate magic system. I think that voidbinding might have more to do with Renarin's abilities, and perhaps the voidspren. 

3 minutes ago, Bzhydack said:

It was 9 Orders of Fused. Oathbringer, start of Chapter 121. They dont have Bondsmiths eqivalent.

While there are 9 orders of fused- its not confirmed that they were using voidbinding. The voidbinding chart (attatched) shows ten different orders, equivalent to the 10 orders of knights radiant 

1 minute ago, KandraAllomancer said:

Besides the Unmade and the corrupted spren (e.g. Glys) we have at the very least:

• lesser Voidspren who grant the Forms of Power
• sapient Voidspren, like Ulim

The latter might be connected to Voidbinding

Of course- I can't believe I forgot that. But that would make voidspren very different from highspren. Highspren such as Syl are not sentient in the physical realm until they have fully formed a bond, and are close to their radient, instead appearing and acting like their lesser spren counterparts. Ulim is not bonded with Venli, and yet seems perfectly capable and distinguishable from lesser voidspren. 

Although, one must ask if voidspren even bond with people/ parshmen in the same way that highspren do. The oaths and bonds seem much more of honor than they do of odium, and it seems strange that odium would use them. Moreover, this topic is founded on the principle that truthwatchers are the bondsmith equivalent for voidbinding, and yet within surgebinding, it is the bondsmith who first created/ discovered the Nahel bond. 

Assuming that truthwatchers are the voidbinding equivalent of bondsmiths, are they responsible for the creation of voidbinding? And would voidbinding use something other than oaths and bonds- something more akin perhaps to the truthwatchers surges, or things associated with odium.

On 18/07/2020 at 5:30 PM, KandraAllomancer said:

@Bzhydack After giving it some thought I think you might be right on this. Yesterday I came across some new interesting evidence when reading on the Near East mythology (I'll post a new theory within a few days) and I believe it implicates rather strongly (amongst other things) that the Unmade are Odium's equivalent of Heralds/Honorblades rather than Bondsmith or Trutwacther spren. If so, they are unlikely to be permanently bonded.

As for the other part of this theory (that the Trutwatchers will be the special Voidbinding Order, rather than Bondsmith), I think it still stands - the Unmade simply need to replaced with some sapient (probably rare) Voidspren

Do we even know that voidspren are a thing? We know that there are corrupted spren, and the unmade, but I believe that a separate class of voidspren is yet to be introduced- correct me if I'm wrong.

On 17/07/2020 at 7:21 PM, Halyo_Alex said:

So would that mean the one in Aimia became... Yelig-Nar and scoured it? Is that the unmade that did that? Am i misremembering that we even know an unmade did the scouring of aimia? Probably!

I think that the one in Aimia is still uncorrupted by Odium, and therefore not one of the unmade. The Scouring of Aimia probably happened in an attempt to find/ capture/ corrupt this last remaining one in order to cover all his bases. But if he failed, that explains why there is one dawnshard that is different from the rest.

On 18/07/2020 at 10:53 PM, Eternal Khol said:

Well, Honor himsef said so. So i think that counts as proof

 

 

"But in the days leading to the Recreance, Honor was dying. When that generation of knights learned the truth, Honor did not support them. He raved, speaking of the Dawnshards, ancient weapons used to destroy the Tranquiline Halls."

Honor was mad/dying when he said that, but there is still plenty of truth to be had from the ravings of a dying god. Everything he says is still important(even though hes dying, he can still see/understand a whole lot more than a regular person ) but not everything he says is relevant.

On 18/07/2020 at 4:34 PM, Brgst13 said:

We do not know that the Dawnshards came from Ashyn.  Nothing in text or WoB supports this assertion.  We know that Surges destroyed Ashyn, but nowhere is it mentioned that the Dawnshards were involved.  

I think that the unmade being the Dawnshards would fit both of these assertions. So far (and correct me if I'm wrong), it seems like each of the unmade aligns itself with a different surge (though perhaps a slightly twisted version, which could be accounted for by their corruption by odium), which means that by saying the dawnshards destroyed Ashyn, it would also mean the surges did. 

On 17/07/2020 at 2:35 PM, Bzhydack said:

For all we know, Odium number will be 9, not 10. For example, he Has 9 Fused orders, he also Has 9 Surges. We also know about all 9 Unmade. They are:

1. Ba-Ado-Mishram

2. Ashertmarn

3. Nergaoul

4. Modelach

5. Sia-Anat

6. Yelig-Nar

7. Re-Sephir

8. Dai-Gonarthis

9. Chemoarich

And we saw 6 od them, hear about 2, only the last one is mistery.

And this is popular theory, but we have WoB that It is false. I don't have Time to search now, but maybe someone will.

 

I may be wrong, but aren't there 10 orders of voidbinding- the voidbinding chart, at least, seems to show this, which could suggest that odium's number is also ten.

My theory is that the reason why there are only nine unmade is that they came from 10 other spren, of which odium corrupted or 'unmade' nine- he probably didn't choose to leave out the tenth, I imagine he was prevented. The question remains- what were they originally?

On 17/07/2020 at 0:56 PM, Darontal said:

Storm father is the piece of Honor

Nightwatch is the piece of Cultivation

Unmade were made and then unmade and the sibling is "sleeping."  What if the unmade were splinters of Odium like the Shards are splinters of Adonalsium?  Kinda like an evil Voltron.  That would be why the Stormfather doesn't want them to wake the sibling.  If those 10 pieces of Odium get together they would be a powerful manifestation of his will on Roshar

Contrary to what @Darontal said, I doubt the unmade are the same as the sibling, as we know (I think, someone tell me if that is just speculation) that the sibling is the third spren that can make a bondsmith, the spren of Urithiru. Therefore, the unmade being the same as the sibling is unlikely, not only because that would mean one of the bondsmiths bonds with a spren of odium, but also because then we would have 12 spren capable of bonding with bondsmiths (the stormfather, nightwatcher, sibling, and the nine unmade), when we know that there can only ever be three bonsmiths at once.

I think that, perhaps, the unmade were originally the dawnshards. Link to where this theory is discussed: 

Despite that sidetrack, I think that the sibling must be something different from the unmade