Dalinar'sCroissant

4 minutes ago, AonEne said:

Welcome to the Shard! I have to agree that croissants are delicious. Have you read all of Arcanum yet?  

Hi! And thank you for welcoming me Croissants are indeed delicious, I would love to see Lift try a fresh-out-of-the-oven buttery croissant. She deserves it.

Yes! Read Arcanum a long time ago and also a couple of weeks ago as part of my pre-RoW re-read.  

4 hours ago, Elsecaller_17.5 said:

Instant noodles. No really, its canon.

Whoa thank you! One less Hoid question to keep me up at night

Just now, R J said:

The Heralds' Oathpact was binding, they just didn't break it completely. Why would oaths of Adonalsium be stricter than Honor's, who's a part of Adonalsium specifically concerned with such things?

Fair enough. I guess I was trying to pre-empt the argument of "why can't Hoid just break the oath like the heralds?". However, if we assume the oath is just as binding then the idea that he needs to collect investiture from all shards to change it still works. 

3 minutes ago, R J said:

The Letters and The Traveler could be taken to indicate that collecting Investiture isn't something that Hoid is doing just to accumulate power and he has a reason behind these acquisitions though

Yep that's what I'm trying to get at: he's collecting all these types of investiture so he can change something within his spirit web (I posit the oath, but could be something else), but as the connections had been originally forged by Adonalsium's investiture in order to break them he needs all the 16 shards iinvestitures. So, only after he makes the changes he can achieve whatever goal he has.

9 minutes ago, R J said:

Why wouldn't Oaths work on humans? It would require manipulation of the Spiritweb. Nahel Bonds do it to a degree, The Nightwatcher can probably do it too

I was more thinking of the Heralds: they were able to break their oaths. What I'm trying to say is that maybe making an oath during Adonalsium's time was far more binding in the spiritual realm than one a current shard needs to make with a human. Hence Hoid  (in my theory) needing all the 16 pieces of investiture to break it.

Hope it makes more sense now

Though I've lurked often on this forum, I have been less than thorough so if the theory below has already been posted… please give me a link (if you'd be so kind) as I'd love to read the discussion! And if this would be better posted elsewhere, please let this newbie know how

Also yes, starting off my forum theorizing with a Hoid theory? Clichéd,  but I never claimed to be cool.

Like many, I often think about Hoid. What does he want? What are his motives? What is his favourite food? All vital cosmere questions.

We know Hoid is gathering different kinds of investiture in the cosmere. At first I thought that maybe he wants to achieve a certain level of power to achieve a specific aim. But this has problems: I don't see Hoid using the investiture-equivalent of using an atomic bomb… nor do I know whether he'd have access to all the invested arts he collects if he's off-planet from these shards.

So my mind travelled to the beginning, prior to the Shattering. We know Hoid was alive in Yolen pre-shattering and we know he has certain magical powers such as lightweaving in Yolen or his agelessness. If he had this magic prior to the shattering, then it's possible that the magical signature (is this a correct term?) of his power is of Adonalsium. That's to say, the investiture within his spirit web is pure undiluted Adonalsium.

So then the shattering happened, and the power got divided. 

We know that Hoid has certain restrictions/conditions - such as not being able to hurt others, or that he always appears where he's needed (or so he thinks). We don't know how these restrictions came to be, but a reasonable guess would be that they are conditions set by an oath he took. I do believe he mentions an oath of a sort to Shallan. 

Why would an oath restrict him so if he isn't a shard? This I don't know, but maybe it has to do with his original Adonalsium magic-system. If we consider the idea that the shards, as pieces of Adonalsium, have their rules and magic based on that template then the fact they're bound by oaths could also extrapolate to the original magic users. If Hoid, by the time of the shattering, was already relatively old (a couple of centuries maybe?) then it's possible he was some kind of priest/advanced mage of Adonalsium and therefore had made his oaths as a way to advance in the magical ladder. These oaths cannot be broken. This could also explain why Honour uses oaths: it's an adaptation of the ancient system… and since he really likes oaths then it suited him just fine instead of coming up with something new. This could also explain Honour not being able to foresee the Heralds breaking the oaths: maybe the oaths made to Adonalsium were more binding and impossible to break than those made to Honour.

So, what if Hoid isn't happy with these restrictions/conditions of existence? Then he would try to change them. But if the oath took place pre-shattering, then the investiture binding it would be of Adonalsium within his spirit-web. While his innate investiture might be of Adonalsium, he might not have enough juice to make the changes. Therefore, to change his spirit web, he would need to access all the 16 shards magic in order to make the necessary changes. 

To me, this explains why he's gathering investiture and possibly why he's so concerned about Odium. Maybe it's harder to gather or use the investiture of a splintered shard. The more shards Odium destroys the more difficult it's for Hoid. In fact, I think that given his line to Dalinar about him being ok with seeing Roshar burn to achieve his goals this makes sense. He's selfish in terms of what he hopes to achieve rather than being a good person who's concerned about the well-being of the Cosmere.

Now why does he want to change his spirit web? Maybe if not to release him from his oath, there could be any other number of reasons. Maybe, he just wants to die… or maybe he wants to save/bring back someone (as hinted by epigraphs) but to do so he'd have to break his oaths so he's trying to get rid of them. I don't know what his ultimate goal is, but this theory seems to be a plausible way to achieve them.

What do you think?

5 minutes ago, Quitecontrary said:

Here it is.

Got Elsecaller! 

Already this forum has made life a little brighter, thank you!

10 minutes ago, Quitecontrary said:

 Have you taken that quiz? I always wished I could Elsecall, but apparently my values determine me as a Windrunner. Ha, fancy that. 
I will protect even those I hate, even if they drink blended whisky.

Oof. That's Teft-level hard to swear for an Oath.

I have not taken a Radiant quiz....where can I find it?

Awesome that you had such a wonderful birthday, I don't know you but given your taste in Whiskey I can say with absolute certainty you deserved it.

13 minutes ago, Quitecontrary said:

Ooooh, that is classic whisky, quite delicate and has that very slight sweetish note that reminds of an Auchentoshan 18yr. When you buy your Laphroaig, you get this certificate for a plot of land and if you visit it one day, you get a dram of whisky as "rent". I've been collecting my little certificates and I imagine that my plot of land rests next to Sean Connery's.

Ohh thanks for the tip! This sounds like the start of my own collection

8 minutes ago, Quitecontrary said:

Yayy! You're officially on my party list. I have a love affair with Laphroaig Quarter Cask. I don't really drink much, but if you put down even just a shot of this in front of me, I'm gone. Elsecalled to my little plot of Laphroaig land.

The idea of anyone waddling into perpendicularity is the funniest thing I've heard all day. EDIT: Upvote for you!
And I just came back from my own birthday party. Needless to say, they won't get this.  

Oh wow! Happy birthday! Hope it was a wonderful day.

I recently finished a delicious 15y Dalwhinnie, and your mention of the Laphroig is an excellent suggestion for my next purchase. When I do, rest assured I shall cheer to you.

Thanks for the upvote! This is one of the things that made me join: wanting to make Cosmere jokes!

1 minute ago, Quitecontrary said:

Once you get your feet wet, there's no stopping you. This is a very very deep rabbit hole.

I checked your profile, and I must say demmm girl, love the contrast of Pokemon/Cosmere and whisky/classic Rock *giggle. Single Malt, I hope? I'm a scotch snob. I cross blended whisky drinkers off my party list.

 

I think that's the problem! I got my feet so wet I ended up waddling into a perpendicularity

I am indeed a single malt kind of girl: smoky and Scottish are my weakness.

5 minutes ago, Quitecontrary said:

Welcome!

How long have you been lurking and what made you finally decide to jump?

I'm a waffles person myself but I love croissants too, especially the chocolate filled ones.

Hi!

Thank you for welcoming me  

Lurking for about 6 months, though casually. I was restraining myself as I told myself that as much as I loved the Cosmere I didn't necessarily want to get too sucked into the rabbit hole.

I was a fool. I am positively deep in the rabbit hole and wanted to participate in the discussion, theorize and honestly be able to talk to people who have the same interest. Particularly now, as RoW and the novella approach.... the hype is real and I definitely want to be here for that!

P.S. Waffles are amazing, particularly the fluffy Belgian ones though I prefer my croissants with cheese

Hello everyone!

I am a Cosmere (and generally Brandon) addict. I have read all of the cosmere, the YAs, watched Brandon's videos, lectures, Shardcast, lurked in this forum, dreamt about Odium and spent several showers theorising about realmatics ...and I just can't get enough.