NameIess

A tribe of horneaters waved at her from inside the window.

Moni stared at the paper, considering what to write. Alexander pulled out a knife and stabbed Socrates in the heart. The old man looked down at the blade in his chest, seeming surprised, before falling over dead. The end.

Moni glared at the paper for a good half hour before continuing. Alexander sat down at the table, placing a plate of poorly cooked food in front of his wizened foe before sitting down in front of his own plate, which was covered in food that was decidedly more... edible than what he had made. Socrates looked down at the plate before glancing up towards Alexander, eyebrow raised. "Well, you've certainly improved since last time." The old fool actually seemed amused by Alexander's poor cooking. "I have to admit, when I saw your meal last Decennium, I almost thought you were trying to kill me." Alexander flushed, inwardly cursing whichever fool had thought up this blasted tradition. Who had ever thought that forcing the two imperial scientists to cook for one another had been a good idea? Honestly, he would almost have preferred it if the entire meeting could could simply be skipped. All they ever did was exchange veiled insults. This time, however, would be different. Because this time he had discovered something unthinkable. Something that the old fool could not even begin to dream of.

I highly doubt that the stormfather contains Tanavast's cognitive shadow. This WoB literally says that no one is holding the stormfather's power: (Mistborn spoilers) This one says that Tanavast is dead, no funny business: So I find it likely that the Stormfather is Honor's cognitive shadow, the remnants of Honor's splintered power. Not the holder of Tanavast's cognitive shadow.

Moni is Nameless' avatar, and my character. She isn't immune to narrators controlling her, (No one is) but they can't permanently change her character. At least, that's the way I'm writing it right now. Moni quickly erased the first story she had written. Plagiarism wasn't cool.

Yes, but even if they weren't dead, they couldn't teach people how to fight very well without physical form. They wouldn't have the presence that fused have.

Yeah, the fused are immediately battlefield generals, while none of the spren we've seen have any skill in human tactics.

Moni considered for a while, then wrote: Alexander walked into the room and stared across the table at the man he hated most in the world. Then she got writer's block and stopped.

I did not say that you said that the fused were pushovers. I did not say that Jasnah was overpowered. You compared Jasnah fighting the regrowth fused to a captain getting hit by an arrow at random. You seemed to be saying that if Jasnah used her powers, the regrowth fused that she fought would never be able to win. Now, that might not have been your intention. Rereading that part of your earlier post, you might have been saying that in the specific matchup between Jasnah and the fused that played out the way it did, with Jasnah's surprise attack, the fused had no chance. Which I am obviously not going to dispute. All I am arguing is that if the fused was prepared for the possibility of Jasnah catching everything on fire or soulcasting, he would have put up a better fight. He would not have won. But he would have put up a better fight. Yes, Jasnah feels that it is unfair that she has powers that normal soldiers don't. When did I say that she didn't feel it unfair? The fused do have living bodies. However, radiants can go for extended periods of time without breathing, and I don't see any reason that the fused, who are normally far more efficient in investiture usage than radiants, would be any more bothered by being unable to breath than Jasnah would be. Regrowth fused are either able to heal forever or able to heal so efficiently that draining them of voidlight is simply not an option or would take a very long battle, given that we have never seen one of them killed in any way other than a stab to the gemheart. I am literally just going on what is in the book. I am tired of being misquoted and misrepresented. I am not arguing with you. I am agreeing with you, or at least I think I am. Do you agree that Jasnah would win 9/10 times against the regrowth fused, if both used their powers and neither had the advantage of surprise? Do you agree that since the Pursuer has never been killed twice by the same person in 7,000 years, there must be a reason for that? Do you agree that the most likely explanation for Lezian's success rate is the advantages he gains from his single minded devotion to killing his prey, his knowledge of the radiant's powers and combat skills, and the survivability his particular powers give him? Do you agree that, given the fact that he had never been killed by anyone twice, the Pursuer would have succeeded against an average knight radiant in modern day? If so, then I see no reason to continue arguing, since we already agree.

Not much. Narrative is a story, some narrators like them, others hate them.

Yes. I agree that Jasnah was surprised by how effective the enemies anti-shardbearer measures were. However, she obviously knew they existed before the battle started. Jasnah here is upset that she doesn't have the skill to beat a fused without relying on her radiant powers like a normal shardbearer would have to. ergo this section: where Wit tells her that it is alright for her to use her powers. Jasnah isn't upset that she can't beat a fused without her powers for no reason. Her reason for being upset is that she doesn't have the physical combat skills that others in her army do. She's upset because someone like Dalinar would have beaten that fused without needing to soulcast. So yes, the external thing that she was upset at was that using her powers to defeat a fused felt "too easy", but the reason it felt "too easy" was not because the fused was easy to defeat, but because she wanted to be as good as Dalinar and other shardbearers. Well, none of those would actually be effective. Fused don't need to breath and can heal from acid as well as a radiant. Particularly the regrowth variety. (Come to think of it, have we ever seen one of those run out of healing? Heavenly ones can fly forever, can regrowth fused heal forever unless you hit their gemheart?) Now, I admit that there were other things that Jasnah could have done. She could have soulcasted the air to stone, or whatever, but, particularly with limited stormlight, it wouldn't be a completely one-sided battle like you make it seem. I do agree that Jasnah had a significant advantage over the fused, even disregarding her surprise advantage. Not an unbeatable one, but with her powers there was never a chance that she would die, and she would have won that encounter in most scenarios. If I was judging this based on purely physical prowess, Jasnah would have won just about 0/10 times. The fused was easily dominating her in a physical battle, and the only way she could have won that way would have been landing a very lucky hit on the gemheart. With her powers but without surprise, I'd place her odds at more around 8-9/10. You say he's not this amazing unstoppable killer, but then say that he has a ton of advantages. An advantage is an advantage, no matter where it comes from. Yes, Lezian is not the most skilled fighter alive, nor is he the most powerful. But he normally has the advantage in focus, experience, surprise, knowledge, etc. Our original argument started when I said that the only radiants that would have been able to replicate Kaladin's feat were Szeth and Dalinar, yes? So, in the same circumstances, with Lezian having all the advantages he normally does, he would eventually kill basically anyone else. I didn't say, or at least didn't mean to say, that no radiant would ever be able to beat him in a one on one fight when they were on even footing, or when the radiant had an advantage. If Lezian were that powerful, no one would have killed him in the first place.

Moni rolled her eyes, but continued writing on the survey. Science isn't my strong point. I know basic stuff, but that's pretty much it.

"Selected for what?"

Jasnah wasn't surprised that they had systems in place to deal with a shardbearer, she was surprised that their systems were as effective as they were. I understand that Jasnah was handicapping herself. A small nitpick I have is that Jasnah didn't think using her powers gave her an unfair advantage over the fused, she thought using them gave her an unfair advantage over normal shardbearers. That said, I feel that I may have been unclear on this before, so I'll clarify it here now. I do not believe that Jasnah could only beat the fused by taking him by surprise with her powers. All that I am saying is that the claim that if Jasnah used her powers, she would be completely unstoppable, is false. Jasnah using her powers, without the aid of surprise, likely would have beaten the fused, but the fight would likely not have ended the moment she used her powers. The fused would have reacted to her catching everything on fire, and would not have given her the opening he did. The fight would have progressed further, and in the end Jasnah would most likely have won. However, the fused would have had a chance to win, meaning that the reason that this thread was made (radiants of the fourth ideal seem too powerful for the fused to defeat) is not entirely true. That was my only intention in arguing this point. I wouldn't say that the Pursuer is never cautious the first time, but when we compare his first fight with Kaladin to his second fight, in the first he was always overconfident, particularly when Kaladin's powers where disabled, and in the second, despite Kaladin's powers being similarly disabled, Lezian fought extremely cautiously until Kaladin started running. Given that at this point, Lezian is starting to believe that he is truly unbeatable and is on the verge of insanity, he was likely even more cautious in the past. That said, my purpose was to agree with you, and to theorize as to why Lezian was able to keep from being killed twice in the thousands of years that he lived. Him simply retreating every time he is defeated or close to being defeated seems to me to be the most rational explanation for that fact. Kaladin was different from the radiants that were pursued in the past in that he forced Lezian to either fight him to the death or lose his reputation entirely.

“But why are you giving it to me?”

The fused wouldn't have bothered to do all that against a regular elscecaller. He might have done that if he knew it was Jasnah, queen of Alethkar and only fourth ideal radiant in Dalinar's coalition, but against a normal elsecaller, no need. Jasnah knew everything about progression fused. That's her thing. She reads and studies about everything. She definitely read battle reports on all the known fused varieties before going into battle. That said, the fused had an undeniable skill advantage over Jasnah. Her powers did allow her to pull out the win, particularly but against a normal fused, probably about average in skill, Jasnah won by taking him by surprise. She didn't immediately overwhelm him with her powers, and she got absolutely bodied in the skill department. Against the Pursuer, you only get the luxury of surprising him with your powers once. Then he gets a lot more careful. And given how long he's lived, he has to have strategies for taking on at least nine of the radiant orders. (Probably not Bondsmiths though) Well, he would eventually be killed by someone after the desolation ended. He does die, he just doesn't die twice. like I said, I'm not saying that he's unbeatable, just that when he's being careful, he's almost impossible to kill. He can just teleport away if he needs to retreat, then try to kill you again later. So, yeah he's skilled, very skilled, but most of his reputation came from his persistence. And most radiants would either have been forced to run or hide from him (Shallan, Lift, probably Jasnah) or wouldn't have been able to fight him off again and again and again for their entire lives. Or at least they didn't have a reputation that would let them make the Pursuer, and everyone else, think they could do so.

"What kind of survey?" Moni asked.

Good point. However, I'm inclined to think jasnah is an exemplary Elsecaller, given Ivory's like of her and the fact that she's the only human able to convince an Inkspren to bond her.

Moni looked up at the consultant. "Why are you asking me all these questions?"

Okay. Let me make some things clear. First off, I agree that every radiant order can fight. While some are more suited than others to fighting, they can all fight. Second, Jasnah considered the way that she beat the fused to be unfair. She was disappointed that she couldn't beat the fused without resorting to using her powers. I agree with this. However, I also believe that the fused would have put up a much better fight if he had known about her soulcasting abilities before fighting her. I'm not saying Jasnah would have lost, merely that it would have been a more prolonged battle. I am not forgetting that radiants can see into the cognitive realm. 1. We don't know what would happen if aluminum was soulcast around him. However, we have also never seen aluminum be soulcast, and it seems to be very difficult to do so, otherwise Jasnah would spam aluminum around all the fused she fought. She didn't even try to do so when Dalinar first opened the perpedicularity. 2. Elsecallers can't blow up areas until they discover C4, Jasnah merely caught everything on fire. Lezian would survive this even if he was caught in it, and, since he is careful when humans try to fight him (If they've killed him before), would likely just teleport away before it worked. 3. He is very good at hand-to-hand combat. Plus most radiants are far less proficient at soulcasting than Jasnah, so doing that in a pinch would be very difficult. 4. Ambushing Lezian while he is in hunting mode might work, but again, he can teleport, and heal from shardblade wounds. Hitting him in the gemheart before he notices you would be very difficult. 5. I don't think that's a traditional lightweaver power. Maybe they could do that, but he could still teleport out of the way. 6. We don't know what willshaper teleportation looks like. If he's anything like the other fused, Lezian's surge will manifest differently from the radiant's. I'm not saying anything that the books themselves don't say. The Pursuer went seven thousand years without being killed twice. No one had ever killed him twice. That means that either all the radiants were pathetic in those days, or Kaladin is special. And, given all the stuff we've seen Kaladin do in the books, I'd say it's the latter. (Of course, Lezian's deteriorating mental state probably had something to do with it as well. He was less careful, and his dedication to his reputation approached insanity.) I suspect that Kaladin has something weird going on due to Honor's death. He's far more connected to Honor than most people, and that might be making his bond abnormally strong or giving him the "wind sense" that he sometimes has. That said, I'm not saying that no one else can compare to Kaladin. Szeth would be able to win against Lezian, particularly with Nightblood. A lot of radiants would be able to win against Lezian, but the problem is that he just keeps coming. His reputation is that of a personification of death, a relentless predator that will get to you eventually. He's not unbeatable short term, but in the long term he had never lost. Even after Kaladin beat him, Lezian would have come back to fight him again, trying forever until he won. Fortunately for Kaladin, anti-voidlight made winning for a third time unnecessary.

And... how do you propose they do that? They didn't know how to combine lights, so why would they be able to split them?

How do you feel about the inevitable death of the universe due to entropy?

Say a third ideal radiant needs three pouches of spheres for every hour they fight. Now say you have 5,000 third ideal radiants. Well, now you need 15,000 sphere pouches every hour you fight. Say every pouch has a dozen or two broam-sized gemstones in it. So you need over 150,000 broams per hour of combat. Sure, you have a couple people that might be able to put stormlight into spheres, but... you know how slow that is? We haven't seen a single instance in which a radiant put stormlight into more than one sphere at the same time. So say you can fill 1 sphere per second. Well, if you do that for an hour, you have 3,600 spheres filled. If all ten of the heralds do that, you have 36,000 spheres filled per hour. And the heralds are the most important asset of humankind. They would be so much more valuable fighting on the front lines, training radiants in their powers, or doing basically anything besides sitting in a room refilling spheres. 150,000 broams of stormlight per hour might even be a conservative estimate. Kaladin a third, nearly fourth ideal radiant, had four pouches of stormlight on him in Hearthstone, and he went through almost all of them in his flight to hearthstone and fight with the pursuer. Of course, we don't know how many spheres he had in each pouch, but at least a tenset seems a good estimate. Jasnah couldn't beat them without her powers, but she also couldn't beat them in a fair fight. She only killed the fused that she did by 1. using her powers at an unexpected time and 2. killing him before he recovered from the shock of everything suddenly catching on fire. So yeah, she was upset that she couldn't beat them without her powers, but she also had to take them by surprise with her powers. That fused could have fought much more effectively if he'd been expecting her to use soulcasting. A lightweaver does have abilities that would work in combat, Shallan in OB proved that. I'm not disputing that the orders can all fight well. But Jasnah's soulcasting surprise attack would only work once against the pursuer. Yes she could fight, but Lezian is among the most skilled of the fused, and Jasnah only beat a normal fused with a surprise attack using her powers. None of the radiants besides Dalinar, Szeth, and Kaladin have the combination of skill and powers to beat Lezian for a second time. Other radiants could hold their own, but kill the pursuer? scare him? Force him into a confrontation where retreat is not an option?

Dang it. I lost.

Bondsmiths in the past have used that power. Like Ishar? he's a bondsmith, and used his powers in the past, before Dalinar did. The Stormfather was surprised when Dalinar refueled spheres, implying that it wasn't a power that traditional bondsmiths had. So at most a bondsmith could refuel individual radiants, not enough to keep an army supplied. I am aware of all of this. Jasnah didn't use her powers because she wanted to get a genuine feel for battle, because it would give her an unfair advantage over the regular soldiers and shardbearers. Not because it would make fighting the fused "too easy". When she beat the fused we saw her fight, she did so only because she took him by surprise with her powers. That's why she was upset. When she talked to Wit, she even outright said that she was less unstoppable than she thought she would be. You are correct that Dalinar wasn't present to renew her spheres, but he was present to renew the spheres after the battle. Meaning she had stormlight to begin with. In older times, radiants did not have that luxury. They would have had to ration stormlight constantly. Jasnah was almost out of stormlight after two hours of fighting. That's a fourth ideal radiant, focused on using her powers as little as possible. How much stormlight do you think a windrunner squire would take, constantly flying for hours? Do you think that any army could afford to supply potentially thousands of squires, through multiple battles, for a week or more, without any hope of resupply before the storm?