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Honorless

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  1. Honorless
    Hey, so sometimes you post a theory and I comment on it, seemingly trying to dismantle it or saying I like it but then pointing out its faults.
    I understand how it might look and why you might find it annoying but please remember that just because I'm commenting on it and not simply saying that I agree with it doesn't have to mean that I'm opposing the theory. Just because I'm against it doesn't mean I'm trying to dismantle it. And absolutely none of them mean I'm trying to attack you personally.
    I will likely be putting your theory through the ringer but that doesn't mean I'm opposing it, otherwise I wouldn't also be providing corroborating evidences & support or put in my own observations to try to fill in the gaps, which you'll notice I often do. Most often, I'm just musing on the theories posted, commenting both on its strengths & weaknesses. If I'm commenting that's most likely because I'm enjoying thinking on your theory!
    We're all just trying to have some fun talking about the things we like here. Don't take it so seriously!
    I also often point out typos, which I understand can be annoying but they just kinda bug me! But okay, okay I'll stop. But I would prefer it if you spell things correctly in the Title Posts. I'm not talking about normal English words, we're not all native English speakers, mistakes happen, it's fine. I'm talking about the fantasy terms, I know this seems really weird, but the thing is that if you use a misspelling in the title, that just makes it harder to find your topic in the future unless I remember exactly how you spelled it. That being said, I won't bug you about it.
  2. Honorless
    1)
    Thoughts on Kelsier* [bland]
    Enough with "monstrous" Kelsier* [Pros: follows the theme of a previous thread "Enough with the Moash thing". Cons: tacky, currently intend to focus on two other characters for comparison rather than just Kelsier, not a reference, possibly coming across as prescriptive]
    I don't know if I am just very late into Mistborn characters' morality discussions if these things were really just sadly overlooked. While Stormlight characters have multiple topics analyzing them, I've found very few doing the same for Mistborn characters. The title, of course, comes from the one character who seems to be the exception to this, Kelsier.
    The reason why Kelsier's characterization is still a popular topic/has seen a resurgence is because of this WoB: [ ]. There have been prev topics discussing the WoB in the context of defending Kelsier such as: [Kelsier is not a monster]*? So, I won't rehash those and instead move on two other characters who I believe should also be discussed within the same frame: the main couple, Vin & Elend
    [quoted from DM with Michael Marssen]
    Vin
    [collected quotes from Vin "executioner"]
    [the slaughter alongside Zane & her thoughts regarding the incident]
    [thoughts on Reen]
    Elend
    [the two executions, the army]
    [change in narrative style post WoA, where we start seeing him from the outside after his training]
    Kelsier
    [comparison with main couple, the stakes for context, suicidal intentions, relativism (time), contextualizing his hatred]
    Kel: tl;dr: one & half books worth of info on char, stop flanderization over one meta comment
     
    2)
    Cultivation's Magic
    Collection of select WoBs regarding Cultivationlight, "fabrials are part of it", Old Magic, "Lift+no one onscreen", Adonalsium & fabrials, fabrials & medallions*, Vyre's knife possible connection
     
    3 & 4)
    Pre-Splintering Selish magics
    Take from Who Built Elantris?
    (another topic exploring the possibility of the Ire being the original builders of Elantris, which was option 2 that got overshadowed by the out-there option 1)
    Existence of Aons within Seons during Aona's death / Devotion's Splintering; how magic manifests on Sel (shape/form)
     
    5) Shardic Intents
    It always felt to me that a Shard's Intent should be spread across all three Realms, translating into Physical, Cognitive and Spiritual.
    Like Honor should be about rules and bindings in the Spiritual, all the interpretations of the term 'honor' that the Orders exemplify in the Cognitive, natural laws in the Physical.
    Similarly Preservation should tend more towards being more unchanging, static sense of the word in the Spiritual, and more protective sense of the word in the Cognitive, and in the Physical translate as the Law of Conservation
    And Ruin should be entropy in the Physical, the raw embodiment of time, translating as the idea of destruction and decay in the Cognitive and the end of the cycle, breaking down into fundamental parts in the Spiritual.
    And Cultivation stand for growth and change,: Physical, Cognitive and Spiritual. Manifesting as natural selection or artificial pruning in the Physical, personal growth in the Cognitive and the fundamental idea of change directed towards optimal or desired results in the Spiritual.
    Odium be the idea of anger and hatred in the Cognitive, lack of Connections, self-centredness, repulsive in the Spiritual
    Endowment personify the cyclical nature of life and death in the Physical, rebirth, new things arising from the old
    We haven't seen Ambition, Devotion and Dominion so hesitate to speculate but I see them as the drive to improve and be above others, to serve other above and below, to be above others and have them serve. I currently don't have any theories as to how their Intents might manifest in the three Realms
    Like the Shards aren't discrete  components of Adonalsium but rather functions.
  3. Honorless
    I had a long, long list of recommendations that I kept sitting on my to-read list. One of them, Garth Nix's Sabriel is still there... It took me a while but I got through it all to finally select the Final Empire. I had recently read the Wise Man's Fear (disappointment) and The Painted Man (disappointment). Both were rather... well... never mind!
    My reaction to the books (the Cosmere ones not the two mentioned above): 
    I was aware of the hype surrounding Brandon's name at the time regarding magic systems and knack for foreshadowing. I didn't catch anything there . I didn't even realize what the epigraphs were till Vin started reading them, I did not foresee Kelsier's decision and like I said, I did not realize the Lord Ruler's identity. I got hooked! The next book was my fav. I'm in the minority, I know, mostly because of Zane *sighs*. I felt really bad for him and Reen especially after the reveal in the first book of their circumstances. I loved the characterizations of Vin, Elend, Sazed, Tindwyl, Breeze, Dox, Marsh, Spook in this book. Was pleasantly surprised by Allrianne and Ashweather Cett. Meeting Human the Koloss was another beautiful sad moment, this I did catch. I did not catch the alterations and was absolutely gobsmacked with Ruin's reveal. I didn't see the Kandra reveal coming either. HoA, yeah I didn't catch who the Hero of Ages was. I loved Sazed's characterization here as well. I could connect to someone who lost their faith rather abruptly since I'm the same. I didn't like Spook here, nor Beldre. I was intrigued by Yomen. Here, I must confess. I got the delivery of Secret History and... yeah. Mind blown. It did not diminish the experience of reading either books at all. In fact, I'll go so far as to recommend this reading order! I read it slowly, making sure to keep pace with the timeline in both the books. Spoiler alert: The endings were absolutely amazing. I loved Leras' character and coming back from the Ire chapters to read that was heartbreaking. And yeah, I did not foresee any of the Ascensions or Elend's final stand.
    I similarly went in blind into the Stormlight Archives. That prelude. That first chapter. I had absolutely no idea who or what the Knights Radiant were supposed to be. The mix of Kaladin's Bridgeruns, Dalinar's dreams and Shallan's 'ghosts' were awesome! I loved the drawings and the interludes, especially Axies and Ishikk, Baxil too, for the insight into the Nightwatcher. I loved the contrast of the Heralds' situation of torture & war and reverence & worship (this I did catch, not that it was difficult to, though I obviously did not catch the identities of the three men in Ishikk's interlude). WoR: I did not catch the fact that Shallan had already bonded. Dang it! And I most definitely did not foresee them discovering Urithiru this fast! I did not catch Jasnah's survival either. I hadn't read Warbreaker yet, so I didn't catch Nightblood either. I did mark Zahel as suspicious though and I did notice Hoid. The Stormlight Archives are beautiful to go into completely blind, I cannot emphasize this enough! There was so much to unpack there. I didn't catch Azure's identity immediately but did realize she was from elsewhere and caught the connection with Zahel & Nightblood. The Dalinar backstory took me completely by surprise and I'm still not sure where I stand regarding that. I loved Sadeas' comeupp. I hated Elhokar and was absolutely convinced & anxious that he was going to heal & kill Moash. Then Moash stabbed him in the face, nice. I hated & pitied Amaram and was very satisfied with the conclusion. It was actually a great study of his character and was a bit of a surprise with killing what looked like the main character's rival.
    It was while completing Oathbringer that I started taking notes and realized what I was looking at. 
    Elantris was somewhat lacklustre in comparison, though once again I did not see any of the twists coming. The city thing I realized the moment Raoden did at the pool. I did not like Hrathen all that much actually and preferred reading Sarene who seemed more grounded and real than the other two. Plus the side characters there were amazing, especially her Seon! I loved the concluding scenes and the way the Derethi were lining people up for execution. I did not foresee Dilaf's madness. The conclusion made the book well worth it but still lacking in comparison to the other two series in the emotional gutpunch. I didn't feel as invested in the characters.
    I loved Warbreaker's beginning! Vasher & the introduction to the magic was awesome. Siri getting shipped off then the perspective of someone getting worshipped & people begging for them to die again, just whoa! Then I got absolutely tired & bored of Vivenna and left that book for months and kind of forgot about it. Then came the revelation of the betrayal & destitution, yup, hooked again! I didn't see Lightsong's death coming either, I really should've but I didn't. This one made me feel. A strangely dark & colourful book, this one.
    Next were the short stories and novellas, which I had to hunt down separately as I couldn't find Arcanum Unbounded or download/order it in my country for some reason (that problem's no longer a problem). Edgedancer was, as Lift would say, awesome. I fell in love with 'Emperor's Soul'. 'Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell', not so much. I warmed up to it after rereads. I couldn't get my hands on Sixth of the Dusk but eventually found it in audiobook. Oh my god!
    During this period I kept having to start over from the beginning with Alloy of Law which I just couldn't seem to get into. I finished it somehow. Then after finishing every other reading and rereading finished it's sequel Shadows of Self. I did not enjoy this one either. Bands of Mourning took me by surprise and I decided to give the previous two a second try. It took a while to let go of the old Mistborn characters and era but I managed to reread them and enjoy them. This is currently the series that I have reread most often due to its humour, plot, length and well, general rereadability.
    I read White Sand vol 1 & was really disappointed. It was very disjointed, the characters felt flat, I hated Khriss. Vol 2 was magnitudes better and I could finally actually feel the characters' journey somewhat. I rather liked Vol 3, surprisingly but more on that later.
    After this I joined the Shard, got both White Sand prose and Aether of Night. Aether had a very forced quality to it that I did not like but was overall wasn't as bad as I was lead to believe. The surprise was White Sand prose. Kenton & Khriss & the world were so much more fleshed out! It's mind-boggling how much content was cut from the GN and how badly it was all presented. But the ending was surprisingly lack lustre and I found that I mostly preferred the GN Vol 3 version much more.
    Next on my list: Skyward
     
    How I joined the Shard:
    With trepidation. Forums don't have a good rep among my friends and for good reason. So I checked for a few small criteria and decided to dip my toes before going in. I checked that the moderators were not anonymous (always check this). I checked for response to LGBT community. I dipped my toes in with my most controversial opinion (Moash) and then I just decided to stick around. I found The Nightwatcher Boon/Bane thread, definitely one of the most fun threads on here, go check it out!
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