Urtan

I was thinking about just who is going to be Odium's champion for the duel and couldn't find anyone, who would be a match for Dalinar. Also, the person either will have to be strongly connected to Odium, or it will be someone Dalinar will be unable to kill. The first and easiest answer is El. We have read some of his thoughts, and we have seen a deranged Fused being actually scared of him. But I can't shake a feeling that this would be a cheap solution without any emotional weight. Dalinar wouldn't struggle against some dangerous enemy. We have seen him winning fight after fight against those. I think this is a red herring, or possibly an opponent for someone like Kaladin to defeat in the days leading towards the duel. The second, less obvious choice is Adolin. Hear me out. He is someone willing to do just about anything to protect his closest. He is also frustrated by his father and feels inadequate in the new age of Radiance. He seems the most vulnerable to the promises of Odium of the main cast. Had something happen to Shallan, Renarin or Maya for that matter, who knows what path he might take. We have yet to see him lose something so important. He did kill the person who ALMOST managed to kill his father in cold revenge. Also think about the emotional impact on readers.Renarin dies (perhaps by the hands of El), Maya is destroyed and Adolin snaps the day before the duel? That would be stuff worthy of final Sanderlaneche for a series (first half at least). This is something Dalinar would be unable to face. If he had to kill his own son I think he would rather surrender. This would also raise the stakes of the duel and have it meaningful emotional impact, since we know (and adore) Adolin since book one. I really hope I'm wrong, but there is just no other person so perfect for it. New Odium seems like a person (shard?) willing to use the closest people of his adversaries against them and being manipulative enough to be able to actually achieve it. And what do you think? Who do you think is going to be the chosen One?

Honor is end-positive, because the powers are entirely external, just like Allomancy. I have no idea about Odium, but he doesn't seem like end-negative or neutral. Fused and regals are definitely end-positive. Cultivation is surprisingly the closest to being end-neutral (possibly fully) even though she has the most end-positive Intent we know of. End-neutral is, when the power you get, is the same, as the power lost. Feruchemy revolves about storing your attributes for later. Old magic revolves around giving up something and getting something else. Taravangian has super smart days and super dumb days(had?). Dalinar lost his memories, to get them back later. Lift burns her own energy reserves, to get Investiture (does she metabolise the food? Sounds like endless sitting on toilets to me....). The Nahel bond is from Honor. This binds two entities together, enhancing both of them in the process. This is also the focus of power for Radiants. Stormlight functions the same way as metals do on Scadrial. It doesn't do anything special by itself, but give it to Radiant who can burn this Investiture to gain abilities just like Mistborn do when burning Metals. That burnt Stormlight also isn't lost forever (what happens to burnt metals? Are they metabolised?). It returns back into spiritual realm, from where it can return into physical trough Perpendicularity. Stormlight can also heal and sustain, which is entirely end-positive. Your point about about Radiants being end-negative is plainly wrong. They might be inefficient in holding Stormlight, but that doesn't mean that the power is lost. If you cup your hands and try to hold water, you will have leaks. The water that leaks, doesn't just disappear into nothing. It will eventually evaporate to vapor, which will get absorbed back into the atmosphere. The only truly end-negative thing on Roshar we know of is Nightblood.

Okay. If my theory stands, Harmony is perfectly balanced and can't turn into Discord without outside force. Harmony would have to do something so drastic it would tip the scales in either way, but by the nature of his new shard he can't do anything like that. In the WoB BS hadn't truly said it is true, but that the question was relevant. You might ask relevant question, but still be wrong. Even if you take my theory, and exchange every mention of Discord with Trell, it is still fully viable. Btw. I dislike the theory of Autonomy being the Trell. For example the Set don't fit into it. Why would Autonomy create organisation with complex hierarchy hellbent on rulling others trough deception? If Discord/Trell was chaos, you would by nature have parts of it creating seemingly orderly patterns, or "Sequences", so random organisation in the middle of chaos perfectly fits.

I am listening trough Mistborn for the nth time. The Terris prophecy of the Hero of Ages is undoubtedly extremely accurate work created somehow with Fortune, possibly created by Preservation itself. They are uncannily accurate so far. My theory focuses on this part. He shall defend their ways, yet shall violate them. He will be their savior, yet they shall call him heretic. His name shall be Discord, yet they shall love him for it. My theory is that Ruin and Preservation aren't true opposites. That would mean that the powers aren't exactly balanced. Harmony is perfect balance. Action and reaction perfectly matching together. Sazed took the powers of Ruin and Preservation and forced them together. They weren't exactly balanced, so he took the excess power from both shards, and dumped it. The powers discarded in creation of Harmony would by definition be the opposite of harmony, which perfectly fits the dualistic nature of Scadrial. These powers wouldn't merge, like the rest did. It would be separate pieces of Ruin and Preservation, but they would interact together. This would create a new entity, which we haven't seen so far. The powers can't be held by a Vessel, like other Shards, because the powers are too chaotic to be understood by any mind, even other Shards. Discord is the opposite to Harmony. Pure chaos is a good description. The entity WOULD still have intent. Big enough mass of Investiture is bound to have Intent. Harmony says he doesn't know what it is, but I think he somewhat understands what happened. He used the name Trell. Trellagism is dualist belief (which by itself isn't surprising on Scadrial), where there are two opposing gods. He knows that Trell is the opposite to him. Another thing is, the metal spike used by Paalm gives her allomancy. Why? Spike created from godmetal of Autonomy wouldn't by the nature of Autonomy grant the powers of another Shard. But if the metal is just combination of Atium, which would create immensely powerful hemalurgic charge, and Lerasium, which gives allomancy, it would fit perfectly. Harmony can't see hemalurgic creations created with Trellium. Either the opposite nature of Discord creates interference and makes them invisible for him, or Harmony can't comprehend the nature of the randomness of Discord. This would also fit with the power of Ruin to affect mad people, which Harmony somewhat obviously lacks. The red colour of the Investiture is easily explained by the "corruption" of investiture. If one Shard takes investiture of another, and changes it, it makes it red. The powers of Discord is multiples of discarded pieces of Ruin and Preservation fully interacting together, thus creating the red colour. Sazed might have done something terrible for the Cosmere. He is impotent against Discord, because he is too perfectly balanced. If he tries to strike back, he destabilises himself and breaks. If something pushes Harmony, bad things might happen. What would the shattering of Harmony do to Discord? Would it absorb the pieces, growing immensely more powerful, or would it possibly scatter the pieces of Harmony across the Cosmere? What would be the effect of Discord on another Shard, which isn't perfectly balanced? Why would people love Sazed for creation of Discord? Is this just another wild theory, or are there some valid points?

Thank you! Pretty thorough info.

I am relistening WoR and noticed something. When Kaladin and Shallan are waiting out the storm inside the chasms, he notices 2 distinct figures inside it. One is glowing and inhuman and the other is sleek and alien. Do we know what are those forms? I think neither of them are the Stormfather, since he manifests as enormous face and manifests later in the storm. My theory is that one of them is the Sibling. It might be "slumbering" inside the storm protected from harm. I have no idea what the other might be. Maybe it's another part of Honour separate to the Stormfather.

That's exactly my point. RoW already contradicts that WoB in first 7 chapters we have so far. Regulation of the effects of Fabrials is already important enough to contradict it alone. Imagine if you have a heater that keeps going on and on on maximum power as long as it has power or not at all without power source. Inconvenience at best and fire hazard at worst. And now imagine modern heaters with regulation mechanisms where you can choose the output with precision. Or if you want, atomic bombs and nuclear reactors. One is regulated, while the other isn't. One expels all the power in extremely short period of time creating enormous destruction and the other keeps low and steady output for a long time making it possible for us to harness the power for ourselves. By the way... Aluminum has an effect too (another allomantic metal) with another series of implications. If one metal is random, 2 might be too, but 3 are a pattern. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that duralumin works like it does in Allomancy. Have you even read the RoW chapters? Navani created an enormous flying contraption capable of carrying hundreds of people. That was only achieved after discovering properties of aluminum.

It is a theory. Of course it isn't as fleshed our as some others, since we just learned of the effects. But it is too big of a coincidence to be random. What makes zinc and brass special on Roshar? Absolutely nothing. If the effect on Fabrials is special only to zinc and brass, it would make it extremely random. The mentioned WoB is 2 years old. That I think makes it unreliable.

Metals give you access to Metallic arts anywhere, as long as you have the power. They might just be only "keys" to the power, but the powers are accessed in Spiritual realm where distance doesn't matter, so it works outside Scadrial (Hoid uses allomancy on Roshar). That means the power "shines" trough metal everywhere and blinds every shard (That might be a big secret in fighting shards). The effects of metals on other types of investiture aren't bound to Metallic arts though. That means aluminum isn't as special with its universal powers. Every metal from the 16 has universal effect of some kind on other forms of Investiture. The metals used on Fabrials matter MUCH more. Only regulation of power with metals is of huge importance (you are literally soothing and rioting spren inside a fabrial). The Fourth Bridge was probably only possible with those discoveries. The WoB talking about importance of metals on Fabrials is probably outdated, since RoW in 7 chapters has shown us that metals are absolutely vital in construction of more complex Fabrial technology. Painrial is a good example of this. The captured painspren is made with external pushing and pulling metals to either push pain outside, or pull pain inside. The switching of the touching metals would be extremely simple. The casing is as small as a big wristwatch, which would make complex designs somewhat hard to achieve with Rosharan technology level. Although Navani did already reduce the size from fist sized (which still isn't as big), only to watch sized.

Thank you! Wasn't aware of that rule.

I think all of the metals are weird. We have the base 16 allomantic metals, which seem to have much deeper properties than just accessing the allomantic arts. You can literally riot or soothe a spren inside gemstone. Another thing is... Isn't it weird, that anyone managed to shatter probably almost omniscient bring? adonalsium either had to plan it, or it was weakened by something. Ruin was weakened enough by not having its "body" (which couldn't be some enormous amount of metal, as it fit into relatively small hole in the ground). Also, why metals glow when observed by an Ascended beings as if they are full of power? My theory is that metals are the "body" of Adonalsium. Every god-metal has something special about it, but base metals are also weirdly powerful. That would explain the whole Shattering (even though I still believe it was a part of a plan). Adonalsium was just a mind without body like an super-advanced AI on a unplugged USB stick. It doesn't explain why Shards do have physical bodies. Maybe Vessels are the providers of both mind and body for the power? On somewhat unrelated note, do we know if Adonalsium created Cosmere, or merely existed in it? What do you think? Is it viable theory, or are there some gaping holes in it?

Maybe it is just the decision of the Knight. But.... We know some orders have more (or stronger) squires than others. I suspect Connection is going to come in play. We know that at least some surges use Connection in their inner workings. Shallan connects with people in her paintings. Dallinar uses Connection to speak foreign languages. Squires are Connected to their Knights. Their souls touching in spiritual realm giving them access to their surges. Maybe Windrunners have access to more surges utilising Connection. We know adhesion uses it. What if gravitation uses it too (making people gravitate to you)? We saw squires of 2 different orders so far. Skybreakers and Windrunners. Skybreaker squires are said to "leak" too much stormlight, which doesn't seem to be a problem with Windrunner squires. What if division doesn't use Connection? Maybe it is purely physical realm surge (breaking molecular bonds) making the squires intrinsically less Connected to their Knight. That means they have to want to be a squire and uphold the ideals of the Knight, the Knight must want THEM as a squire and the strength of the Connection dictates the capacity of the squire.

I think that she knew about the Nowhere entry portal that is supposedly on Detritus and wanted to escape trough there, but died after the jump to Detritus. Well, the leadership probably had either no idea about that portal, or had no Defect to open that portal. Then the first lifebuster dropped and the rest is a history. Btw I love the idea of a backdoor to heavily fortified planet. Which could be used either as an escape route, or method of sneakily sending assassins do what assassins do (Figments were on the human side of the Second Human War).

I am relistening Skyward after reading Starsight and I think that the Commander of the Defiant ordered Spensas great-grandmother(?) to summon a Delver. He was desperate, in pain and possibly wanted to take some Superiority soldiers with them, but GGM decided to take them to Detritus instead for whatever reason.

Thanks for explanation.

I meant laws. When Odium chooses his champion, he is somehow bound by the result of the contest. Laws could be viewed as oaths. You are bound by them. Edit: Odium CAN NOT break oaths. It's one of Adonalsium's things. What would she do with piece of Odium? Could Sja-Anat maybe join or combine with Nightwatcher? They both make changes. One for people, the other for spren. In the same vein, could Sja-Anat corrupt one of the Bondsmith spren?

Does that mean that Marsh has some unknown way to gather more Atium/has it in stock? You still have to burn Atium, so how does that work? Do you have to take your metalmind off, eat it, then burn it? Atium is quickly broken by stomach acids, so for how long can you burn metalmind before it is unusable?

Cultivation as a Shard can´t change. I agree. BUT you still can combine 2 different shards to make one greater whole. This is also growth. Does he? Stormfather even said, that there are some rules Odium must obey.

I agree completely. You expressed my thoughts to a point. This would have to be absoulute endgame of the Cosmere books. We would need MUCH more information and knowledge of the Cosmere for it to make sense. I don´t think we will get to see these events from Dalinar/Unity POV. That is pretty much the same with Sazed/Harmony. We got one chapter of Sazed/Harmony POV at the climax of three books and that was it. You pointed out, that we only got handful of Adonalsiums. Thats right. BUT in E2 Scadrial terms like Investiture, Connection, Fortune and such are getting much more common. Those terms are only now getting relevant. Imagine what will be relevant with spaceships and such (E4 Scadrial is supposed to revolve around space travel). We even KNOW that there is at least one space faring civilization in Sixth of the Dusk. There are at least 17 upcoming books . Noone expects we get so much exposition in a single book. If we get 1 Shard per 2 books, we still have 5 books to work with. Mistborn is going be at least least 13 books long. You might start reading E2 Scadrial and enjoy it, but a lot of things will not make sense. I´ve been there. It is already getting complex. You are supposed to be able to, but it isn´t as enjoyable. We still have at least 7 books to explain to us what is going on. Odium was imprisoned on Braise for AT LEAST 4 thousand years. Time between Mistborn E1 and E2 is about 300 years. We have no idea when exactly SA happens, but 300 years is completely different scale. Harmony might just be too distracted with keeping out Trell to notice what is happening on Roshar.

He might not be Connected to Cultivation by nature, but he most likely is by choice. She gave him his boon instead of Nightwatcher (who is also of Cultivation). This is his third Ideal... Sounds like he wants to change for the better every time he fails. Which to me sounds like something of Cultivation.

Preservation acted in the long term in sync with his intent. He sacrificed himself to preserve Scadrial. He knew with Fortune, that in the end Scadrial will survive. Ruin wouldn´t splinter himself, because he would NOT act in the way of his Intent. Cultivation is not changing herself, but preparing Dallinar to take her Shard to make HIM grow.

Does Odium really just want to dominate or destroy? We know of two separate and Shards with literally those Intents. As I said. Two different approaches to Odium´s Intent. If it was different, Rayse would have been warped and changed to match Odium. That didn´t happen, which means, that Odium has pretty much the same goal as Rayse.I think, that Dallinar would have to fix Honor and combine it with Cultivation to kill Rayse. After that, he has to combine all three shards, because Honor wouldn´t let Dallinar someone else take the curse of Odium. With her proficiency with Fortune, it may have all just be a part of her plan to Cultivate Dallinar into Unity.

We know what Odium wants. He wants to be the strongest being in the Cosmere and is trying to accomplish this by killing anyone powerful enough to oppose him. Could that be his Intent? To be the most powerful being? Rayse, as we know from Letters was not a good man. What if there are multiple ways to achieve Odium´s Intent and Rayse is just abusing this Shard in his own way. Now Dallinar calls himself Unity. Looks like its unision of multiple Shards, and I think that Odium is most definitely in that mix. Now, where does that leave us? If it´s combination of all three Shards on Roshar, the Intent must also be mix of all three. Honor- uphold binding agreements or Oaths, Cultivation- to cultivate and make things grow, Odium- to be the most powerful being in the Cosmere. Now Unity must be combination of all three- To be lawful, most powerful being.Cultivation´s Intent only shifts the way he achieves that. Instead of killing other Shards, he is going to bind them to himself in some form of Oaths. He cultivates, he unites and is the most powerful being, thus Adonalsium will not be restored in the same form, but as Unity with all other Shards bound to it.